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Audi S3 - Stroker Big Turbo build.

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Scullies, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 3, 2013]
    Hahahah, let's just say he needs a cold shower :)
    g60leigh likes this.
  2. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 18, 2013]
    Let's play a game of........
    GUESS THAT PART.....

    I will go first

    Attached Files:

  3. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 18, 2013]
    oooo i know this one.

    Bloody damn stupid squiters i believe is the technical term
  4. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 18, 2013]
    Ohh dear that's not good :(

    Feel for you mate
  5. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Oct 18, 2013]
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    Not another build?
  6. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 18, 2013]
    And.... We have a winner :)

    Been a long day, replaced the alternator then went out in the morning to do some logging while its was still "cool"
    Hit the rpm limit in 2nd gear and the usual POP, but then I noticed the oil pressure was lower than usual. Stop the car and idled for a bit, no low oil pressure alarm, so went back home. Still had 40psi oil pressure at 3k rpm so took it easy.
    Let the car cool down for an hour then took the sump off. Found the square piece in the sump and was confused at first as I had to think what it could be. The other pieces drained out with the oil, only found them after I realised it was the oil squirter from cylinder 2.
    No idea why its been sheared off as the pistons don't touch the squirters when the engine is turned over by hand.

    Luckily I am a parts hoarder and have a few sets of oil squirters.

    HO LEE CHIT - Changing an oil squirter while the crank is still in the engine is a job for various "multi" tools. Put and extra modified brass washer as a spacer just to give the squirters a bit more clearance.
    But its done and it was a blessing in disguise as I had a look at the NEW OEM oil pump, which hasn't done more than 3000km, and its almost seized. It's impossible to turn by hand and just possible to turn with a torx key. So I fitted the used one from my 1.8t engine, which still turns easily with one finger.

    Sump sealant is drying and I will put the oil in, in the morning, prime the oil system and take things from there.

    Oh the bumpy road to big turbos :(
    s3dave likes this.
  7. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Oct 19, 2013]
    Good job you spotted that then and also good you could change without a strip down.
  8. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 19, 2013]
    is there any witness on any of the pistons?
    was it tighted v.tight on install? they are v.tight to get off as you know..

    just one piston? weird
    rod straight?
  9. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 19, 2013]
    Other pistons look ok at the moment. The piston did touch the squirter but not by much, there is a slight imprint on the piston skirt. I can see it but can't feel anything when I ran my finger over it. Doesn't seem near enough to break the squirter bolt. Maybe the bolt was the issue and just gave up. Come to think of it, maybe they are a one time use only item.

    Oil squirters were all torqued to 27nm (20ftlb) at engine build.

    I could only eye ball the rod but it looks good.

    The beast is running again, but need more isopropyl alcohol as I have run out and IAT went from max 35c with the 2 stage injection setup to 65c without any injection. So that put a stop to the logging this morning.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  10. Kuvi-S3
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    Kuvi-S3 Active Member

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    [Oct 21, 2013]
    Glad to hear it wasn't as serious requiring a rebuild
  11. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    More bumps in the road to big turbo.

    I had random misfire issue in the past and it was always cyl3. Tried all kinds of ideas to sort it out. Then it went away.
    and then....
    After I repaired the oil squirter and replaced the nearly seized oil pump. The misfires came back and with vengeance.
    I have been trying to find the issue by swapping coilpacks, spark plugs, checking wire harnesses, coolant temp sensors. But nothing seemed to change the misfire.
    It would blow out on boost and start misfiring on 2 cylinders, then one would recover and run on 3 cylinders, then finally the last cylinder would recover and it would idle fine again. I had to pull over to the side of the road and let it recover.
    It would also start to misfire if I engine braked but only on 1 cylinder.

    Cruising on the highway below 3500rpm and not engine braking, it would run perfect!

    So I decided to fit the stock manifold with stock injectors and TB as well as stock maf housing and stock map, my thinking was to eliminate the bigger injectors, new manifold and hemi TB.
    Drove the car off boost with the stock setup and it still started to misfire. Now I know that its not any of the stock parts at fault because they have worked on the stock engine.

    So next was to check the engine. Did compression test and all cylinders were just above 170psi. I little bit low as I was hoping it would be closer to 200psi.
    Then I decided to remove the cams to see if there was an issue with the valves.
    I was shocked to find 3 hydraulic lifters had come apart, 1 per cylinder. My theory is the lifter would pop apart, cause the misfire and then slowly get pushed back together as the engine recovered.

    These lifters were brand new, so I was pretty concerned about the other coming apart. So I replaced them with my used lifters from the stock 1.8t engine. Fitted everything back together and all is well with the bumble beast.

    Did some logging and found that the engine is pulling a lot less timing than it was before I changed the oil pump and squirter.
    so hopefully we can get back on track with the mapping process.

    Attached Files:

  12. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Thank heck you sussed it. This modification stuff is a long bumpy road.
  13. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    i was'nt expecting to read this
    good find fella
    :icon_thumright:
  14. hoffmanvp3
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    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    ****e that's got me worried. Just sealed up the sump and kinda wished I replaced my pressure relief valve bolts for the oil squirters.
    Any body else replaced theirs?
  15. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    Yeah, I have never seen lifters come apart while they are still in the engine. But strange things happen.

    THIS CAR WILL GO FAST !!!! dammit :)
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  16. hoffmanvp3
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    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    Is it only because yours is a stroker that the oil squirter got snapped off from the piston?
  17. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    I don't really know why it broke, I thought there was enough clearance when I built the engine. Only one squirter bolt snapped, the piston has a slight impression on the skirt but its so slight that I can barely feel it with my finger. So there was definitely not enough impact from the piston to sheer the squiter bolt in half.

    I will put that in the mysterious box along with, spun rod bearing, cracked fsi crank, cracked block across main bearings and exploding hydraulic lifters.

    Not much else can go wrong now :lmfao:
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  18. hoffmanvp3
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    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    I've been reading on vwvortex that some stroker engines had the clearance then when they changed their running in oil out came a squirter. Must be hitting ever so slightly at full load as the rods will shrink and stretch and will prob just tap the squirter block and over time this will prob create stress cracks and eventually fail. But this is just a guess
  19. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    Mine were spaced out with aluminium washers at engine build, so there was "extra" clearance. Maybe the bolt was tired and gave up from the slight piston tapping. Then when it broke off it must of gotten beaten by the crank and rod on its way down into the sump.
    Things could have been a lot worse but luck was on my side for a change.

    I still feel the piston would really need to hit the squirter hard to snap the bolt and then the piston would have a fair bit of damage to it.
    I could undersand the theory if all the squirer bolts snapped or were knocked loose, but they were all still tight when I tried to re-torque them.
  20. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    That is an epic collection of mishaps. Things can only go up right!
  21. hoffmanvp3
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    hoffmanvp3 Active Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    Maybe a weak rod that compressed and stretched more than the others or a slightly out of true big journal on the crank that was specific to that piston?
    Did u use a DTI to measure true TDC on each piston? That'll tell if the crank or rods are true
  22. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    Oh there are a lot more to add to that list, but they are all user error.

    Last night was a good example, I was testing the engine for any more misfires and forgot I was on a redonkulously high boost map, started hammering it down the road and blew the boost pipe off the TB, with that there was an almighty BANG and a backfire that blew out the TB and lit the whole of the front of the car up. It was like NLS but out the front of the car.

    Obviously the engine died, so I popped the bonnet and found that carpet thing that's clipped to the underside of the bonnet was completely destroyed and half hanging over the engine. I was meaning to remove it anyways :)
  23. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    No i havent, if I buy one more tool or part for my car I will get served with divorce papers......

    I will add it to the "one day" list, which is quite a long list atm :)
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  24. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    Oh and I forgot about today's experience, while waiting at the alignment shop for my mates TT to get done, I left the car idling and after a few minutes the larger radiator fan burnt out. Noticed that awesome PC board smell and opened the bonnet to find smoke!! Mad rush to turn the car off and grab the fire extinguisher!
    No fire thankfully, so I cut the wires going to the fan as I couldn't be arsed with getting under the car to find the plug and unplug it.
    Drove the car home while keeping an on coolant temp in VCDS, I have a massive radiator that sits behind an FMIC and large oil cooler and the coolant was sitting at 88c while cruising home in 35c weather.

    So we went down the the scrap yards in my mates TT, bought a used mk4 golf shroud and fans, fitted them this evening and all is well with bumble beast again


    Good thing my wife doesnt read this, what she doesnt know wont make her ANGRY
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
  25. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 9, 2013]
    AND.......lets add a dead MAF to the list :(

    Weird thing is I went to borrow my mates MAF sensor from his TT, pulled it out and noticed the sensor number is F 00C 2G2 076
    his car runs fine with that sensor, so tried it in mine and it works. How weird. After a lot of translated google pages, it turns out that sensor is for an Audi A2 1.4tdi.
    We have no idea how the previous owner found that sensor here in this country as there are NO diesel cars around.
  26. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp?

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    [Nov 9, 2013]
    [​IMG]


    This happened to my friends TT, I recently found out that when he dismantled the head he put all the tappets in a magnetic tool tray:banghead:
  27. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 9, 2013]
    sensor element should end 049 to be correct
  28. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 9, 2013]
    That must be a pretty strong magnetic tool try :)


    Yip, 049 is what I had. Typical 13 month expiry date. New 049 will be purchased ASAP
  29. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 9, 2013]
    bosch sensors suk... not what you would expect from Zee Germans is it... so called quality make, not in reality more often these days.

    Sad but true
  30. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 9, 2013]
    Lets go maf less yanky style :)
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  31. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 10, 2013]
    after you
  32. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 10, 2013]
    hahaha, come on :)
    You the magic man, I'm just the minion loading files. What do I know :(
  33. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 10, 2013]
    RS4 MAF for me
  34. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 15, 2014]
    Ok, so this misfire on cold start has won. I have no idea why its only misfiring when the engine is cold.
    Its not remap related, as I have fitted stock k04 injectors, stock maf and flashed stock ecu file. Still misfire when cold.

    Misfires are multiple random misfires across all 4 cylinders.

    So the decision has been made to pull the head and fit the AMK head with K04 setup so I can drive this bumble biatch!

    Have also received a precision Vband in/out turbine housing, so its a good time to make a new exhaust manifold.
    My mate is going BT on his TT, so he can use the existing T3 manifold.

    [​IMG]
  35. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jan 15, 2014]
    I did'nt think it ever was map.... given similar spec hardware drives around fine for 2 years now..

    misfires we have seen have been plug related.. new plugs supplied by customer turned out to be faulty.. chased our tail on that one.
  36. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 15, 2014]
    Thats why you the boss ;)

    I will try another new set of plugs, it will be the 3rd set but its still easier than pulling the head :crying:
  37. aldridge358
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    aldridge358 New Member

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    [Jan 15, 2014]
    Wish I had the money to do this
  38. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp?

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    [Jan 15, 2014]
    What pugs are you using as i bought a new set fitted them and it misfired when cold then found out they **** so i fitted a set of Bosch platinum plugs F5DPOR and i can't fault them but your best changing them every 6 months or less depending on how many miles you do.
  39. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 15, 2014]
    I have tired NGK PFR6Q and NGK BRK7E, both new and resulting in misfires.
    I will have a look if those plugs you use are available here in Dubai.

    My service plan is new oil, plugs, filter every 5k km.
  40. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jan 15, 2014]
    for testing, std PFR6Q
    Scullies likes this.

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