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Audi S3 - Stroker Big Turbo build.

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Scullies, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    they are attempting to hide illegal sneakiness, so I can't help you out but you can have one of these [​IMG]
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  2. MIGGZ
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    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

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    fokkof doos! i love knowing a diff language that we can understand hahahhahaha
  3. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    I'm from Durban, I don't speak the boerewors curtain taal :laugh:
    but what you said sounds rude and I think you hurt my feelings :crying:
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  4. MIGGZ
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    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

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    ok laaaarnie! i dont either hahahah been learning the last year!
  5. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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  6. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Finally getting somewhere,

    After changing back to stock cams, stock injectors, stock MAF and stock ecu file, there was still a weird idle issue.
    Unisettings had no effect on the issue as well.

    So I decided to do another boost leak test and pour some soapy water over the manifold. ( smoke test would of come in handy here )
    Turned of the manifold gasket was dodgy and not allowing the manifold to sit flush on cylinder 3 as well as all the injector bungs were loose and had no sealant in the threads.
    Replaced gasket, sealed the injector bungs and presto !! 1 x smooth idle :)

    So went of to do some logging for Bill to have a look at.


    Then more drama yesterday evening. After doing the logging, I went over to my mates to work on his TT which is 1km down the road. In this time, the turbo oil line split and squirted all the oil over the engine, exhaust mani, turbo and down pipe!!
    I think the turbo must have been pretty warn from logging at 4500 rpm for a minute and caused the oil feed line to melt.
    I have replaced the oil line with the same stuff for now, while I get a stainless hardline made up. Will be taking it easy until I get that hardline.

    I am really impressed with the way the stroker engine drives off boost, there is a lot of response in the lower RPM range. Which makes city cruising a pleasure. I really thought that it would be a pig in the lower RPM. So really looking forward to the mapping process.
  7. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Excellent work mate... soooooo want to get my engine in but I know I must be patient...

    A few people have said about how well the stroker drives... I only hope it can spool a big ass turbo too LOL...

    <tuffty/>
  8. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    I have no experience of a big turbo small engine as i went big engine small turbo first then added the bigger turbo latter on

    Mine drives lovely even with lower compression (8.8:1) i used mine everyday and i mean i used all 30psi! I never used the lower boost settings
  9. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Yeah, I heard that too but I am really surprised at how it drives. It just pulls from about 1800rpm to 3300rpm, then the turbo starts to spool around 3300rpm. Its only on actuator pressure, so max is 13psi which it sees just before 4000rpm.
    Im getting too excited for some real boost!!
    This might all change when mapping tho, I have no idea.

    :)
    I think I will suffer from that same lead foot syndrome!
  10. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    hope you have more insulation on the other lines for when it does have some boost and more heat dude
  11. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Yip Yip, bought 2 sheets of the good EXPENSIVE stuff from merlin. One sheet is on the firewall and protecting the AC lines and brake booster. Other sheet has been cut and and used to protect the valve cover gasket, heater core water lines, wastegate vacuum hose and have put some inside the scuttle to protect the ecu along with the K04 silicone charge hose wrap :)
    Coil pack harness has been wrapped in left over exhaust wrap and have the stainless heat shield to cover the coil pack harness and coil packs.

    Also remove half a kilometre of power steering return line from behind the engine and fitting the PS reservoir near the air filter.
    Water feed line to filler bottle as also been removed from the rear and routed round the front of the engine.
    Other turbo lines are 2mm wall thickness stainless steel :)
    Dont know why I thought this turbo oil feed line would survive without a heat shield.
    Major lesson learnt!

    Did I leave anything out :)
  12. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Yes, you left out the write up and pictures of the rerouting of water and pas lines. What lines are they and how big of a job is it?

    Ive seen a diagram of the pas system and its mental long, i have pas lines all over the show at the min and would love to tidy that up, but i know some areas are high pressure.
  13. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    There wasn't anytime to take photos when we did the engine swap and it was a last minute decision to remove the PAS return line.

    Going to work on my mates TT now, his front end is still off so will get some photos and put something together.

    The PAS job is pretty simple, even manage to reuse some of the pipes to complete the relocation, but will change them when my new reservoir arrives with AN connections, also thinking about putting a tube type transmission oil cooler in the return system.

    Remember that my car is LHD so the steering rack is opposite to RHD cars.

    Ayways gotta go, Macky is waiting :)
  14. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Ok, so what i have done to remove the LONG power steering return line is as follows.


    On a LHD car the PAS return line, leaves the steering rack and comes to the front of the engine into the hard lines to be "cooled"
    Then it flow back over the gearbox, half way up the firewall, across the firewall, down the other side of the firewall, then back up to the PAS reservoir, as you can see in the diagram below. I have NO idea why the PAS lines flows right past the back of the turbo and down pipe after it has been through the "cooling" stage. Its kind of pointless.

    [​IMG]

    These are the best pictures I could get from my mates TT,

    Here you can see it come up the firewall, across and down again.
    [​IMG]


    Here it is again coming back up to the reservoir. Most of the return line is hard line, except where is comes back up to the reservoir. It changes into a rubber hose thats crimped to the hardline, which is covered with heat wrap.
    Now on a top mount turbo, the downpipe gets real close to this rubber hose. So lots of heat shield is needed.
    My mates BT TT, split the rubber hose, squirted PAS fluid all over the DP and caught FIRE.
    [​IMG]

    So a last minute decision, before the engine went back in, was to remove the pipe that runs across the firewall. After having a look at the routing of the PAS lines. I decided to remove as much of it as possible.

    The idea was to have the reservoir relocated to the gearbox side, so I went ahead a cut the lines out.
    What I removed is the RED lines in the below diagram, the GREEN line is pressurized from the PAS pump to the steering rack. When it leaves the steering rack, its comes over the gearbox and into the "cooling" section.

    FYI - the high pressure PAS line ( green line ) is the one that is bolted to the gearbox. The "cooling" line is bolted to the boost pipe to join the 2x stock SMIC's

    [​IMG]

    As the PAS line comes over the gearbox, there is a short section of rubber hose that joints it to the "cooling" line.
    I cut this rubber hose and remove the "cooling" line along with the LONG piece that goes back over the gearbox, up, across, down and up the firewall.

    This is the "cooling" line. Its the one that gets attached to the boost pipe that joins the 2 stock SIMc's

    [​IMG]


    So with the PAS reservoir cabled tied between the air filter and TB, I was able to reuse some of the hoses and hard lines to make a temporary solution till the new Vertical PAS reservoir arrives and I can sort out a mounting spot and get the AN fittings done.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2014 at 3:26 PM
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  15. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    I also rerouted the little coolant line that runs off the small nipple in the below picture. This line also runs to the firewall, across the fire wall and into the top of the coolant reservoir.

    [​IMG]

    I'm sure many of you have broken that STUPID tiny nipple, that break off even if you give them the blue steel look :)

    So after breaking my 2nd one, I decided to make a stainless steel pipe that connects the upper radiator hose to the coolant flange on the head. The stainless pipe has the fittings for the after run pump and the return to coolant reservoir. The new silicone return to reservoir line now runs across the front of the engine and up to the coolant reservoir.

    Also the brake booster vacuum line runs across the fron of the engine, under the inlet manifold, over the gearbox and into the brake booster.

    Will try get some pictures of the setup mentioned above.

    Evap system has been removed completely, so now there are NO hardlines running across the firewall above the turbo. Its all been removed to make space for a BIG turbo :)

    Simple is just so much better :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2014 at 3:26 PM
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  16. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    aWesome post
  17. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Some goodies arrived :)

    PAS reservoir, a bit larger than I thought is was going to be. Needs some black paint along with the bling catch can!

    [​IMG]

    And some gauges.

    1 x Dual oil temp and pressure
    1 x Boost/Vac gauge, with a.......wait for it.... SHIFT light, just for those fast and furious moments :) How cute is that little turbo on the gauge :)
    1 x Turbo timer, that also displays volts and AFR, which its receives from the LC1 controller witch is part of the AFR gauge
    1 x AFR gauge.

    [​IMG]

    Now I need to decide where these things are going to be mounted.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2014 at 3:26 PM
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  18. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    looking good fella
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  19. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Short video of the Innovate Turbo timer in action.
    The TT has an AFR led display which it gets its signal from the analogue output on the Innovate AFR controller.
    It also has a volt meter.

    Seems if you turn the car of slowly the engine almost turns off before the turbo timer swings into action. I think this might be a worn out key barrel. :ermm:

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
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  20. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    FMOC FTMFW, in english thats a Front Mount Oil Cooler For The Mutha F@#$%ing Win :arco:

    [​IMG]



    FYI - Part number and info, thats if you are able to find one. Took me ages to find one on ebay.
    [​IMG]


    Should be a nice fit behind the bumper, or maybe just go GayDM and mount it on the outside ...................... NOT !!

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2014 at 3:26 PM
  21. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    You prob wont have this problem in dubai but, too big a cooler and you will be operating at too low temps, with the stat in the housing going crazy opening and closing.
    mate of mine fitted a setrab he got from work and has the higher 90degree stat and his car sits at like 70-80.
    The thermo sandwich plates constantly bleed a bit of oil to the cooler, there is no fully closed option.
  22. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    I've said that on here a few times but it was ignored. The thermostat housings always seem to let a bit of oil through (the Mocal one I had did anyway). Cold oil is far worse for an engine. That said, it does start to break down at 130c+ so if you're hitting that, you need to address it. On a track car it's likely to see those temps. Even on the 45c odd days we get here now and then, I don't think I've hit over 100c but then it's been road driven.
  23. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    5bar max?
  24. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    That's a massive oil cooler. Will you be running a thermostat or is that not needed due to the heat where you are? You want the oil to get up to temp lol
  25. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    That would make sense for the thermostat sandwich plate to allow some oil to go through, just to keep the oil moving through the cooler. If the oil just sat in the cooler, it would be way below required temps and when the stat opens up to redirect the oil flow all that cold oil would go into your engine/turbo.


    Yeah, definitely getting a thermostat sandwich plate.
    My oil temps are never below 100c, with the heat here its around 118c after some hard road driving. So when its ready for some real boost i'm sure the oil is going to get hot real quick.

    Max oil pressure I have seen is 65psi, so I should be safe :)
  26. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    65psi max is low dude
    cold cranking >100psi on mine and many others..
  27. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    100psi at cold idle? How does that not squeeze oil past the turbo seals?

    I don't think I will get cold pressure in the summer, the oil and coolant temp is around 40-45c before even starting the car :(

    I get 65psi at 3k rpm with oil at operating temps, which according to Mr Bentley is good pressure.
    Gauges are not installed at the moment, as I'm busy with pods and sorting out the crows nest of wires :(
  28. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    i think the weather/temps you have are what will work for you.

    others looking at your thread and thinking i like that cooler, in colder climbes may come acropper though is my concern on the 5bar rating. (no doubt thats conservative and no less than 1.5 * that value as tested in reality

    65psi level if what we got staceys up to after its bearing clearance issues... and that was on the lower level of vag's 'acceptable' pressure.
  29. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Yeah, that was my thinking behind the longer cooler. I was looker for a thinner cooler that had more surface area exposed to the air that will flow over it.

    Got the sump drain plug welded up last week and fittied the sump over the weekend.

    What I ended up doing was welding a 8 AN o-ring boss onto the sump. Had to drill out the drain plug thread and a bit of material from thr sump to get the locating step into the sump.
    Also welded a 1/8 npt bung into the sump to fit the innovate oil temp sensor.

    Its not pretty down there as welding on a used sump is a crappy job. Lots and lots of cleaning around the area to get the alum welding to take and it still turns out turning black :(


    [​IMG]


    So its been a 5 days now and no oil leaks as of yet :)
    Seems O-ring AN fitting does a good job. Might grab a 6 AN o-ring boss to see how it fits into the drain plug on my other sump.

    You could use the AN drain plug as the turbo oil return line point - if you had a sump from a non turbo car
  30. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    N75 plugged in, over 2 bar of boost and some water injection = 2 grown men giggling like school girls.



    So I think its time I order some stickers

    mirror.jpg

    mirror 2.jpg
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
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  31. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Made some time to fit the Innovate boost gauge and went for a drive. Turns out boost is just over 2bar, boost is at 36psi :scared2:

    Now I understand why I have a whip lash! Its probably not healty but sure is fun.
    Fueling is good and timing pull is around 3-4 with the use of water/isopropyl alcohol injection ( still waiting for my meth )

    Bill, I think you need to map this sucka for 36psi as a daily drive :lmfao:

    3rd gear is my new best friend [​IMG]
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
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  32. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Videos or its ALL LIES!
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  33. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Working with Bill on the n75 control so this file is a bit lower on boost. Hitting 32psi


    You want video????
    No problem, I give you video.

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
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  34. MIGGZ
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    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

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    Like I said last night/ this morning, its kak insane dude so much win
  35. Unitronic
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    Unitronic Fear is just a word!

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    Nice build thread Scullies! Congrats!! :beerchug:
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  36. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Managed to get some time to fit the oil cooler, before I connected it up, I did some logging with VCDS.

    Normal cruising around driving, VCDS says oil temp was at 108c, at idle it would drop to 95c.
    Now my innovate oil temp gauge says different, cruising around oil temps were at 125c and idle was 110c.

    Thats quite a difference is measurements, I am going to take the innovate readings as I believe its a better sensor.

    After fitting the cooler, I did another log.
    VCDS says cruising temps are now 93c and idle was the same 95c
    Innovate gauge says cruising temps are 106c and idle was the same 110c

    Previously, before the oil cooler was fitted, the oil would get to 130c very quickly while driving the car hard and take some time to cool down. Now with the cooler the oil gets up to 120c and cools down a lot sooner as one would expect.

    So its a positive result.


    I have also been busy with a dual gauge pod. Bought a universal twin pillar pod, thining I would cut it up and make the pods fit inside the cluster area. Turns out the twin pillar pod was a close enough match to the shape of the car pillar. So I took the easy route and make it fit the pillar.

    Work in progress

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
  37. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    If i were you id fit a lower temperature thermostat, water and oil is still on a heat exchanger, lower water temps might keep the oil a bit cooler also.
  38. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    Yeah, will have to try a lower stat. Might even try removing the thermostat spring section from an old thermostat and run it with just the thermostat plate.
    I use to do this with V8 boat engines. The trick is not to remove the thermostat completely, only remove the spring and plug bit. This way the coolant still flows thought the thermostat at the required rate.
    If you remove the thermostat completely the coolant flows through the engine to quickly and can't draw the heat out of the engine.

    but that's another days work as its a mani off job when you have a larger mani fitted.
  39. Gizmo20VT
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    Gizmo20VT Member

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    Die ding is mos kak jags scullies! Very nice bud!!
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  40. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    ^ wtf did he just say? Lol ^
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