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Audi S3 Plus?

pat15312 Jan 24, 2014

  1. geefunk1978

    geefunk1978 Well-Known Member

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    I think this new S3+ will be the new RS3. I seriously doubt Audi will do both. Not a big enough market.
     
    Louay likes this.
  2. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    If they do release the S3 plus I'm booking a holiday somewhere with no phone signal or wifi connection as I wouldn't want to be moderating the thread produced by new S3 8V buyers and their responses to it!
     
    RedTurtle, Joetidman, cuke2u and 5 others like this.
  3. geefunk1978

    geefunk1978 Well-Known Member

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    it would defo p1ss a lot of new owners off!!
    Won't bother me though because in a week or so mine will already be an S3+ and not cost anywhere near as much! :)
     
    Louay likes this.
  4. Snake Pliskin

    Snake Pliskin Well-Known Member Supporter Team Floret Silver Audi RS3

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    Regular S3 will remain only 'manual' option though for those that are not into s-tronic.

    No doubt the S3+ will cost a fair bit more than the S3 too .. what do we reckon, another £5k perhaps, could be £7k more than S3 manual if s-tronic only on the S3+ as that will bump the price up nearly £2k straight away so maybe £37k base price.

    Leaving the RS3 to cost around £42k to £44k maybe ?
     
    PilotAudi likes this.
  5. Vtec Abuser

    Vtec Abuser Member

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    It's all relative though as what happens when they release software for the rumoured S3+?
     
  6. PilotAudi

    PilotAudi New Member

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    We're alright Warren, it's the 184 owners I'd be worried about when the rumoured 210 replaces it in 2015. ;-)
     
    warren_S5 likes this.
  7. Louay

    Louay Well-Known Member

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    No mention of the Golf R Evo either which as previous reports suggested was going to be unveiled at the Geneva motor show in March or will that now be Worthsee in the summer or Paris in autumn.
     
  8. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    The rumour mill gathers pace....

    Quote: Also interesting, the Volkswagen Group hired away Friedrich Eichler, the Mercedes engineer who spearheaded development of the CLA 45 engine. Eichler is said to be leading development on this new 2.0 TFSI that will knock his former creation from its perch.

    Rumor: Audi Planning 375 hp S3 plus - Fourtitude.com

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  9. kenny_boon

    kenny_boon Active Member

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    4.2sec to 60 so the RS3 will be 3.???

    interesting proposal cant see its place with S3, S3 + and RS3. 2 models would do but hey ho, i wouldnt mind one :)
     
  10. Louay

    Louay Well-Known Member

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    ....and the R8? 2.5? :-S
     
  11. ConS3

    ConS3 Active Member

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  12. keyser

    keyser Active Member Audi S3

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    Given the Quattro Sport Concept gets 414bhp from 2 litres where does this put the next RS3 with 2.5 litres? I can't wait...

    I'd be pretty hacked off about an S3+. No problem towards the end of the life cycle if they want to boost sales, but within a year of release? Where's the incentive to buy the next one new if you know it will be trumped within 12 months?
     
  13. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [​IMG]

    Looks better than other photos I've seen
     
  14. Dan_G

    Dan_G Active Member

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    hubba hubba.

    3.7 secs is super car quick - and I don't mind the facelift either.

    As a more realistic, commercial, concept its a good starting point, but id expect it to be more watered down and contain more creature comforts if it makes production.

    I wonder if launch control only has 200 uses....
     
    rams_s3 likes this.
  15. ConS3

    ConS3 Active Member

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    From everything I've read and heard, this is the engine to be used in the new RS models. They're dropping the 2.5 in favour of this.
     
  16. dstama

    dstama Member

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    Yeah Con, I doubt they will be going ahead with the 2.5 after the development of this engine.
     
  17. ConS3

    ConS3 Active Member

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    I don't think so either. Shame as the sound of the 2.5 was amazing.

    I'm amazed at how anyone can crack that much power out of a 2.0 litre engine. The boost this is running must be crazy.
     
  18. RobH_S3

    RobH_S3 Active Member

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    Not really depends on the size of the turbo, although it a fine line with high boost or too much lag.
     
  19. ConS3

    ConS3 Active Member

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    From what I've read, it's using the same turbo used in the rest of the 2.0 turbocharged range, as it's using the EA888.

    Found this:

    Compared with the 2.0-litre EA888 turbo engine used in regular Volkswagen Golf and Audi TT grades, the TT sport quattro concept engine features special aluminium pistons with integrated cooling channels and an ultra-high-strength forged steel camshaft. The cylinder crankcase is made out of high-strength cast alloy, and the exhaust-gas turbocharged produces up to 1.8 bar of pressure. Yet the engine itself weighs just 150kg.

    That's about 26 psi. Quite a bit. S3 8V runs 1.2. So that's a pretty big increase.
     
  20. RobH_S3

    RobH_S3 Active Member

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    Well if its the same turbo and its running 1.8bar standard then Revo better pull there socks up and get a map out ;)
     
    vakaviti likes this.
  21. tcardio

    tcardio Active Member

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    I'm all for power but I wonder how much carbon it will produce. Man...i hate cleaning carbon
     
  22. pat15312

    pat15312 Well-Known Member

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    So looks like the 2.0 4 cylinder looks like it could step up and be used in the RS3 also then.

    Don't worry, they won't bin the 2.5 5 cylinder engine; they'll apply the same tech as used in this 420bhp monster and put it in other RS models - it won't go to waste.
     
  23. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Can believe the turbo will be exactly the same if they plan to run those kind of boost figures.

    Is the current turbo variable vane / variable geometry?

    The cooling required to manage the heat soak at 26psi would be something to behold, the intake temps would be going skyward at those kind of figures unless they have cracked a new method of intercooling.
     
  24. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    keyser likes this.
  25. Louay

    Louay Well-Known Member

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    Audi employee hints at a new RS3 - report

    No mention of an S3 Plus which is good news surely it would infringe RS3 sales if it were to go ahead after this latest snippet with 350bhp and the RS3 having just 25bhp more!
     
  26. Snake Pliskin

    Snake Pliskin Well-Known Member Supporter Team Floret Silver Audi RS3

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  27. Louay

    Louay Well-Known Member

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    Any further thoughts on this article Mr P?
     
  28. Snake Pliskin

    Snake Pliskin Well-Known Member Supporter Team Floret Silver Audi RS3

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    For me, its all good .. the more choice the better !

    But its all speculation at the moment.

    I personally think that the line up could handle an S3, S3+ and RS3.

    If the S3+ shaved say 0.5 seconds off the 0 to 60 sprint down to 4.4 / 4.5 then that would still leave room for the RS3 to do it in 3.9 / 4.0

    I would guess approx £5k to £6k between each step up and that in itself could appeal to different buyers.

    Either way I guess it won't be too long before we know as I do believe Audi will as one of the article says release these cars earlier in the life cycle, so we will see one or both through the coarse of next year ... the fact they are testing cars at the moment certainly reinforces this.

    and I really don't think an S3+ would hit standard S3's as they would be totally different price brackets still ... like comparing an S-Line vs an S3 .... all IMO of course.
     
  29. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    It's hard to tell if it's just speculation because a few other manufacturers are threatening 'extreme' models (like the 325bhp Astra GTC VXR Extreme)
    [​IMG]

    or the Golf R Evo
    [​IMG]

    or whether it's likely because the RS model is so far down the production calendar that Audi feel they need a bridging car to cover off the competition. Look at how late they left the RS3, and I'm convinced they were leveraged into that car being produced in response to the 1M.

    Hard to say, but then they seem to be finding niches where niches didn't seem to exist for all other sorts of cars so anything is possible.
     
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  30. visionthing

    visionthing Active Member VCDS Map User

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  31. nervus

    nervus Well-Known Member

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    my 8V has ~380hp / 490Nm from a simple MTM piggyback ecu so would be easy Audi to do similar. However, i cant see them making something with RS4 and R8 straight line for a third of the cost!
     
  32. Snake Pliskin

    Snake Pliskin Well-Known Member Supporter Team Floret Silver Audi RS3

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    Crikey ... Go Vauxhall !!!

    Hmmm very interesting.

    Yeah for sure, the other manufacturer's producing hotter / more extreme / powerful variants could push Audi on like you say.

    Cool - all good stuff for potential future purchases isn't it.
     
  33. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    If manufacturers would actually produce this stuff it would save us all a lot of hassle and effort (and warranty issues) as we'd get the car we wanted from factory.

    If I could buy a plus pack for the S5 with removed limited, remap, uprated front discs/calipers and sports exhaust I'd happily to it to retain factory warranty but the bellends at the Audi AG will leave it to the last minute to wake up to the fact there is any demand / revenue opportunity. They were still putting tape decks in cars in 2007 and I hadn't physically touched a cassette tape for 10 years by that point.
     
  34. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    They have. The RS range :p

    Problem is, it's a load more expense, development, homologation, type approval, validation, testing etc. for a very very small percentage of the market share.

    The vast majority of sales go to the vanilla versions of our cars, so it's unlikely they will recoup the costs for such a limited market. The RS range is the halo product, which help generate additional sales of the vanilla versions.
     
  35. Itguy

    Itguy Well-Known Member

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    And they will always build in suitable tolerances for warranty too, so we'd never expect to get a mass produced factory car that is right on the limit of the capabilities of the engine and gearbox.

    Just look at when manufacturers last tried it. Lotus S1 Exige with the rover VHPD anyone? It basically needed a full rebuild after 40k if not before!
     
  36. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    To a point I agree, but in the '5' space there are two very different ways of skinning the cat engine-wise. The S5 3.0V6T engine is hugely under utilised power wise in some guises (sub 300bhp where it is used in non 'S" cars). In the S5 it puts out 333PS which has been deemed conservative when tested. However tuners are getting near 500bhp with a map and a pulley (nothing else). I love the RS looks and the noise, and it is still the better car. However for £1500 I can get near 500bhp performance with less 'bend me over' running costs, to get that kind of bang per buck from the RS would involve much deeper pockets. I could have afforded the RS if I'd chosen to moderate some of my other over-priced hobbies a bit, but on paper the S car just stacked up as a more rounded ownership given my plans for it.
     
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  37. Satdiver

    Satdiver Member

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    CAR magazine reviwed the Golf R, they said ......I'd buy a S3SB........blah blah blah. But also said or wait !!!! For the 400bhp GolfR evo or something.
    Surely this suggests a possible RS 3 Audi
     
  38. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    See that word in red text above; I rest my case! I used to live up the road from the Rover (now Mini) plant, and whilst at Uni (during my holidays) I used to temp in their factory making up exhausts - used to be located on the Woodstock Rd coming out of Oxford City Centre. I've never seen quality control like it (or lack of it). I think the fundamental designs of some of their set pieces were OK, but the variation in build quality was way wide of the mark (and I'm not an engineer!).

    I appreciate fully what you're saying, but I've been running VAG cars for 20+ years in various states of tune from moderate to optimistic and they seem to have quite a bit more built in engineered tolerance. That said, I'm sure Audi have an eye on the number of warranty claims and wouldn't want to be seeing that rise significantly without some reparation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
  39. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    In it's day the K Series was groundbreaking and had many engineering innovations. The original 1.4 top hung wet liner engine was very reliable, even after allowing for manufacturing tolerances and bean counters (plastic dowels).

    The rot set in after enlarging this engine to 1.6 and 1.8, going down the damp liner route, bad manufacturing tolerances, and bean counter interference. Other parts of the car design (small volume cooling system) also let this engine down.

    In the correct hands (Dave Andrews) the K series VHPD with all the correct castings and correct liner heights etc. and suitable gaskets, this engine can turn into a reliable 400bhp+ unit. And does exist still to this day in many guises.

    A shame that quality control of the castings (porous) and bean counters (dowels & elastomer head gaskets), supplier and assembly tolerances (liner heights) overwhelmed quite a groundbreaking engine design (lean burn, stretch bolts) for its time.


    edit: But I digress :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
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  40. Joetidman

    Joetidman Well-Known Member

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