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Audi DPF document

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Markm49, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. Markm49
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    Markm49 Member

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    [Oct 3, 2007]
    Am awaiting my new TDI 170 in early November and received a document from the leasing company saying that they had been sent it by Audi and that I should read it and make sure I was happy with the DPF option - seeing as I don't really have an option on the 170 I am not sure what they wanted me to say ! will post it up if someone can show me the best way - it's a pdf.

    mark
    #1
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  3. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    Very interesting - please please mail it to me, I'll host it for you if you need me to.

    vertigo1 AT iconia DOT org DOT uk
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  4. Markm49
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    Markm49 Member

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    on its way
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  5. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    #4
  6. madvw
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    madvw Active Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    tbh this whole DPF thing sounds ****.

    so then, paraphrased from the literature:

    "Drive your car how we tell you to, or else it'll break, and we'll cut both your arms and legs off as payment"
    #5
  7. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    Interesting article, especially the bit about driving in the city not being ideal conditions for the dpf.... putting me off buying a 170 tbh.

    Is an option to remove the filter for a straight through pipe from powerflow or some such and use a small resistorto fool the sensor..?

    Yes I know, warranty and also should you need to do this, but the dpf system does seem pants..
    #6
  8. marklad2020
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    marklad2020 1st Gear

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    Our car is driven mostly in city conditions, and mostly by my wife at a very sedate pace. Never seen the DPF light come on yet...

    I would guess that to trigger the warning one needs either extreme stop-start driving conditions, or a fault (such as the software / sensor fault described in the other DPF thread).
    #7
  9. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    Does any other manufacturer make such a fuss about DPF,or suggest you drive in a certain way ?
    I'm looking at a replacement car from the likes of BMW/Alfa/Honda.
    AFAIK,they are all fitted with DPF's too,but they don't seem to make a fuss about them.
    #8
  10. emzino
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    emzino Active Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    There fitted with DPF's too? Thought it was only an Audi thing. But that aside, I think your best bet and most likely would replacement car would be BMW.
    #9
  11. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    3-series and 159 are fitted with DPF,for sure.
    Before the 170 thread,I'd never heard of DPF !
    Other manufacturers seem to have had them fitted for ages without them rearing their ugly heads.
    Audi sure seem to have some pretty serious issues with the 170/DPF combo.
    Issuing daft guidelines on how to drive is just masking the problem.
    #10
  12. coupe-se
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    coupe-se Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    The DPF also catches soot particles emitted in the exhaust gas. The DPF continues to collect soot particles until a predetermined level is reached. At this point the DPF will clean itself through a process known as DPF regeneration. This process increases the temperature within the DPF and burns off the soot particles.

    In order to carryout the regeneration process the DPF needs to reach and maintain an exhaust temperature higher than its normal operating temperature.


    So ........ now matter what your driving style the DPF has a set routine of storing the soot to a preset level and then regenerates. You cannot drive in a manner (i.e. being heavy footed) that naturally raises the exhaust temperature that prevents the soot building up in the 1st place?

    My question now is ........ what exactly happens in the engine to raise the exhaust temperature to "higher than normal operating temperature" and clear the DPF?
    Is more fuel used to raise the exhaust temp?
    Are Audi's official mpg figures based on a DPF regeneration cycle happening within their mpg testing and resultant figures?
    Is more fuel being used to make the cars emissions cleaner?
    #11
  13. cdb2
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    cdb2 Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    I hope people who purchased one of these cars a while back were informed of all this before making their purchase. Would seem a bit unfair to spring this on them now otherwise.
    #12
  14. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    BMWs dont have dpfs.

    I've never had any problems with mine - i do nothing but stop/start, inner city driving and not even seen a single warning light in my dash - but then i have DSG and this seems to help with the DPF regeneration process by altering the gear changes in auto mode
    #13
  15. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    Basically, in their rush to appease the tree huggers and lower CO2 emissions, the DPF technology has been rushed to market and is still immature.

    Noise problems notwithstanding, as this appears to have now been resolved, they do regenerate an awful lot if you do mainly urban motoring as the exhaust temperature never gets high enough to burn the collected particulates off and thus it must be done "manually" via the forced regeneration cycle. In extreme cases the filter can't actually regenerate enough and the filter ends up clogged - this is when you get warnings and dealer visits to sort it out.

    Basically the dealers are sick to death of DPFs too and lease companies are probably also getting bad feedback about them, which would explain why they're now warning prospective buyers.
    #14
  16. Kris
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    Kris Member

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    The bulk of my mileage is mainly urban in all the conditions the DPF does not like. In the past year i've had the DPF warning light come on twice which was sorted with some vigerous driving. I'd guess mine recycles around once a month. Never experienced any power loss, mainly the tractor type noise for a while. If i'd known before i bought the car the DPF may have put me off. Well, as ive had the car nearly a year i only find the DPF thing a slight annoyance. That said, it should have been right in the first place! Anyway, the 170 TDI is my first diesel car and DPF aside it is cracking, power, handling and quality finish.
    #15
  17. marklad2020
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    marklad2020 1st Gear

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    [Oct 8, 2007]
    I would guess that unless your driving conditions are extreme (very short city trips where the engine never gets hot), or you have a faulty DPF / ECU (as in the other thread) then you are never going to even notice that you have DPF fitted. I haven't. - however I can understand the reluctance of some who have obviously been through massive problems with faulty cars.

    By the way, DPF's don't do anything to lower Co2 emissions. But the 'treehuggers' do have a valid point in that diesel soot particles do make a mess of our environment. Ask anybody with respiratory diseases for example, or just look at the colour of some buildings in built up city areas.
    #16
  18. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Oct 8, 2007]
    Yes they do.
    See below cut and paste from BMW website,for the 320D (and the 318D)


    "Engine
    BMW EfficientDynamics Intelligent Energy Management system
    Catalytic converter
    Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)
    EU4 Emissions management
    Exhaust tailpipes - single, chrome
    Four-cylinder in-line diesel engine with common-rail technology
    Turbo"
    #17
  19. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Oct 8, 2007]
    I hade the DPF light come on 6 times in about 1200 miles. After having the DPF and sensors replaced, I have not seen it once in that last 3000. Hopefully, the problem has now been sorted and everything is fine. I do a mixture of urban and A road type driving.
    #18
  20. s18ter
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    s18ter New Member

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    [Nov 29, 2007]
    DOES ANYONE OUT THER KNOW OF ANY ISSUES WITH THE NEW AUDI DIESELS THAT HAVE THE DPF SYSTEM. THIS IS ABSOLUTE RUBBISH AND NEED TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO HAS HAD ANY PROBLEMS.

    I HAVE AN A4 CABRIOLET 2.0 TDI SPORT 06 REG AND BOUGHT IT FROM AUDI MAIN DEALER JUNE THIS YEAR (O7) AND HAD NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS AND NO EXPLANATIONS JUST **** FROM THE DEALER WHO WON T ADMIT AUDI HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THESE CARS EVEN THOUGH THE SECRETARY HAS TOLD US THERES LOADS OF CASES SIMILAR TO OURS!!

    bASICALLY THIS WHOLE REGENERATION ISSUE IS NONSENSE AND OUR CAR IS USED FOR MOTORWAY USE REGUARLY AND STILL GIVES US PROBLEMS. THE VEHICLE HAS BEEN BACK TO AUDI SIX TIMES AND ALL THEY DO IS RESET THE FAULT CODE AND TELL US THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH CAR, SURE ENOUGH IT HAPPENS AGAIN AND AGAIN, CAR LOSES ALL POWER ENGINE MANAGEMENT LIGHTS UP AND I HAVE TO NURSE CAR HOME IN LIMPF MODE WHICH WHEN BUYING A CAR OF THIS STYLE IS DEFINATELY NOT WHAT YOU D EXPECT??

    I HAVE REJECTED THE CAR AND ITS BEEN 3WEEKS BUT STILL NO PROGRESS SO IF ANYONE KNOWS OF ANY CASES SIMILAR PLEASE LET ME KNOW BECAUSE I VE TRIED TO SELL THEM THE CAR BACK WHICH TO THE DEALERS OFFER WE LL HAVE LOST OVER 4GRAND ON THE CAR EVEN THOUGH WE VE HAD PROBS FROM DAY 1, OBVIOUSLY WE DON T SEE THAT AS AN OPTION.

    LETS JUST SAY AS A BIG AUDI FAN, IF THIS IS THE MODERN AUDI STANDARD I AM VERY DISSAPOINTED AND WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WIYH ADVICE OR INFORMATION
    #19
  21. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Nov 29, 2007]
    Is yours a 170, on an 06 plate???
    Assuming it is, do a search on here for 'DPF' and look for the biggest thread EVER.
    Print that off, and then see if your dealer wriggles out of it.
    Or use it as part of your rejection notice.
    #20
  22. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [Nov 29, 2007]
    Does anyone know if they have done a software update on the 170? Not seen the DPF light so far and car has over 2500 miles on the clock
    #21
  23. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 29, 2007]
    Before I ordered by new 170 I knew it would have a DPF fitted, but I was not given any particular information about it. The fact that it did have a DPF was one of the reasons I chose the 170 over having another 140.

    Fortunately my 170 has not given any problems at all. I do a variety of driving, some town, some longer distance and the DPF light has never come on at all. Perhaps, as some others have said, the S-tonic helps.
    #22
  24. Twizzler
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    Twizzler Member

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    [Nov 29, 2007]
    I think the first thing s18ter needs to ascertain is if there was a history of this by the previous owner - perhaps that was the reason for selling it.
    The problem with buying an early dpf car secondhand is you don't know how the engine was treated in its early life. Inter alia, there are 3 things that are likely to cause these problems. The dpf and/or its sensors are defective and need to be replaced, the wrong oil is used - only VW507.00 is suitable, or the car is burning excessive amounts of oil. The last 2 will cause rapid clogging of the dpf.
    The S-tronic can either be the dpfs best friend or worst enemy. In 'D' the revs are kept low and would keep the dpf cool. In Sport mode the revs are much higher and give the dpf help in burning off any deposits that are building up.
    I would like to see a 'dpf clog percentage' displayable in the DIS alongside the engine oil temperature. The engine management system presumably knows the value, unless the sensors are simple switches. This would be useful as one could then drive it appropriately if the clog level was approaching the threshold at which the regeneration cycle triggers.
    #23
  25. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Nov 29, 2007]
    Is it even possible to have a 170 on an '06 plate A4 cab though???
    I can't help wondering if S18ter has a 140 and is barking up the wrong tree, blaming something his car doesn't even have.
    According to Wikipedia, the A4 Cabriolet has never had the 170tdi fitted, only the 140.
    Assuming it's a UK model, a 140tdi A4 Cabriolet won't have a DPF?!?!?
    #24
  26. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 29, 2007]
    I have just been looking in Elsawin and as far as I can find the only diesel engine fitted to the A4 Cabriolet was the 2.5 V6 TDI with 120kW/163bhp.

    The only engine listed with 125kW/170bhp is a 2.4 petrol.
    #25
  27. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Nov 29, 2007]
    I think S18TER is getting mixed up...
    I don't think it's a DPF problem at all (unless he has a foreign 140tdi).
    I think it's some kind of engine management problem.
    #26
  28. Twizzler
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    Twizzler Member

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    [Nov 29, 2007]
    You may well be correct. You'd think that at some time during the 6 trips to the dealer it would have become clear that there is no dpf in the thing........!
    #27

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