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AUDI A4 Hybrid turbo Build

beachbuggy Jun 13, 2012

  1. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Really following on from a thread started last week on hybrid turbos for the A4, I thought I would actually get round to starting my thread as I've started to make some head way on the turbo build.

    So I'm normally found lurking on the 8L forums and have been building hybrid turbos for a little while, mainly again for the 8L and 8N platform. In the course of learning as much as I can about Hybrids and the like I found that there really is a limited choice of decent Hybrid for the A4 1.8t engine. S4 and RS4 all seem to do well but the poor 1.8t seems to have got left behind.

    Most of the companies that offer hybrids for the S3/TT etc do offer them for the A4 but simply not on the same level, now whether this be demand or mechanical issues I don't know but when you think the 1.8t engine is the same throughout the VAG range the question has to begged why can you now get a 320bhp hybrid for an S3 but not an A4? they are the same engine, maybe different spec but none the less based on the same thing.

    One of the biggest draw backs of the A4 turbo is it's small size, in the K03 spec its a 150bhp unit and in the K03s spec it's 163 or 190bhp, same turbo just mapped differently, obviously twin intercoolers are used but mainly the tunning seperates these engines.

    With a remap the 150bhp will get you 190bhp and the k03s will get you 220bhp-ish, good figures, but when the best hybrid on the market at the moment for the A4 claims 260-280bhp you have to ask where is the 50bhp that the others get? ( power claims are made on what the turbo could theorectically flow not actual figures )

    So why is this? well for starters the best A4 hybrid is basically an S3/TT turbo in the A4 housings, when you add S3 injectors, maf and tuning you get a stage 1, Audi S3 engine in your AUDI A4 AVANT. Due to the layout and engine orientation it's impossible just to fit a K04 turbo and manifold from an S3 and make it work, it would be considerably cheaper so we are left with having to make the most out the K03 turbo on the A4.

    Limiting factor on the K03 is definately the turbine housing, ideal at making boost quickly, not so good at moving large amounts of air, but with all this said it is still possible as shown recently with new manifolds and exhausts to get considerable power increases by just fitting some well choosen upgrades. Turn up the boost, turn up the power.

    So where does all this fit in with my plan.

    Well I am in the process of building a K03 turbo from an Audi A4, to it will be added the RS6 turbine as found in the new TFSI K04 and also the majority of hybrids for the S3 and to that add the 2280 compressor which is larger than the 2275 found in the S3 K04 turbo and has the added benefit of ETT. Extended tip technology. This combo, on paper and in a K04 turbo, is more than adequate for over 300Bhp with supporting mods.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here's the Turbine housing machined out to take a K04 turbine from the S3 we di this initally to see if there was going to be enough metal left for it to take the larger RS6 turbine. The inducer on both these are the same so it was only the internal bore that needs to be machined futher to take the larger exducer the Rs6 turbine has. I plan to take as much as I can out from here to allow extra flow and also stop me from having to clip the turbine wheel to make it work...

    At this point I just want to thank Kev ( aka Aragorn ) for his help so far and his pressure for me to keep this going :)
     
    seany26 likes this.
  2. AlexGSi2000

    AlexGSi2000 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    I will be keeping my eye on this - I still need to have my 2.5 180 turbo done by you, but funds are low at the minute!
     
  3. SammA3

    SammA3 New Member

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    Very nice!

    My 1.8t (150) is currently:

    K03s
    sports cat
    cat back
    bigger injectors
    carbonio intake
    apr stage 2 remap

    Really need more go, 300bhp would be ideal
     
  4. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    So the plan is to fit this exhaust manifold

    AUDI A4 PASSAT 1.8T K03 K04 STAINLESS STEEL EXHAUST EQUAL MANIFOLD LONGITUDINAL | eBay

    And this DP
    Audi A4 Stainless Decat & Downpipe with Flexipipe Exhaust Front Pipe De Cat | eBay


    Anyone who has seen the s3 thread will know the tubular xs power manifold has produced nearly a 10% power increase just by fitting it when fitted to hybrids.

    So here we have a picture of the compressor immgoing to use.

    The one on the right is a 2275 compressor from the Audi s3/TT exducer on this 2.2" and the inducer is 75% of that. On the left is the 2280, this has a larger inducer 80% and also the extended tip which basically means it has the smal exducer but the tip extend up and over so not changing the backplate size needed.

    [​IMG]

    Here we have the k04 turbine v the rs6 on the left is the rs6 turbine. As you can see its bigger.the bigger the turbine the more power it had to drive the compressor. Balancing the the compressor to turbine is key. You can have a massive compressor but if th turbine can't power it then the compressor won't be efficient.

    [​IMG]

    Due to the compressor being considerably larger than the original a k04 compressor housing will have to used to accommodate the larger wheel.

    Heres a quick picture of the k03/k03s and k04 compressors for comparison

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2012
  5. duffy78

    duffy78 Member

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    All looking good, nice write up.

    I have often wondered about the manifold and decat you have linked. I always assumed as it was relatively cheap it would not be any good. I'd be interested to here what you think of then when you get hold of them.
     
  6. docurley

    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Nice work but why not use the K04-15 turbo as a base for your project?
     
  7. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Because its not actually very good, and almost all of it would end up in the bin anyway!
     
  8. docurley

    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    fair enough
     
  9. olly quattro

    olly quattro Member

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    Keeping a close eye on this thread :)
     
  10. carl-1968

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

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    Me too, only had my hybrid in for a month but by eck the difference is very noticable :)
     
  11. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Carl

    Can you give me a spec of your hybrid please and other mods you've got fitted as well. Mapped what sort of power you getting?
     
  12. carl-1968

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

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    Sure thing, im not at home till tomorrow and i'll get the specs off the guy who built it for me, i'll list all the mods at the same time and graphs for the last rolling road in feb but due another next month
     
  13. carl-1968

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

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    Spoke to the guy and basicaly the inside is the same as the 240 bhp 3.0 tdi hope this helps :)
     
  14. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a 1.9tdi?
     
  15. carl-1968

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

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    No I have 2.7, V6 :) and now the mapping is sorted it goes like stink
     
  16. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for being dumb is that petrol or diesel?
     
  17. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4

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    I am watching this with hope of a solution for the Avant
     
  18. boost-addict

    boost-addict Active Member

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    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
  19. carl-1968

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

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    Diesel my man with nitrous oxide!, im going to put it on the rolling road on Monday and do 2 runs, one with nos and one without and record the sessions, will post them on ut and link it from here
     
  20. carl-1968

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

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    Beechbuggy, you wanted the full list of engine mods?, ok here we go

    K & N cone filter with cold air feed, stock airbox removed
    Custom made heatshield for air filter
    Fmic with custom hardpipe and silicone hose
    Hybrid turbo with heat jacket insulation
    3" stainless turboback straight through exhaust with 4" oval tips heat wrapped for 1st 4 ft
    Nitrous oxide (w.o.n) street blastet 150 dry kit with 100 shot (50bhp) single nozzel
    Custom remap with EGR and DPF deleted
    Custom power steering cooler
    To fit
    Exhaust gas temp gauge
    Nitrous bottle pressure gauge
    Oil pressure and turbo boost gauge

    Thats the engine stuff but the car has other mods if you are interested I can list them?
    Cheers
    Carl
     
  21. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Good find. I knew the other one was stock, reason behind choosing it was that I wanted initially something that could be bought of the shelf and something to bench mark against when I fitted the hybrid. Then I could look into uprated 3" dp and decats or cats. Also I fit went for a 3" dp then I would probably look into using a k04 turbine housing from the s3 and get the manifold modified to accomodate this as the k04 loves the 3" dp. But then we are looking at the larger 2283 compressor wheel and potentially 330bhp, which at the moment is just one step ahead :) at the moment I'm really looking at an "off the shelf" setup and seeing what we can achieve, then once that's sorted explore other possibilities.


    While I know " a lot " about the transverse s3/TT im
    still learning on the longitudinal engines and thus any info is great recieved!
     
  22. carl-1968

    carl-1968 A4 sold, lots of bits available, ask for details

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    There seems to be alot more aftermarket upgrades available for other engines, the 2.7 Tdi is rearly listed?, hence me using so much custom stuff, I will be taking it to Aitp this year and hope to check out what's available for it although there is not much more to be done, little touches here and there
     
  23. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    So just a little update as have been busy with other things. The 1st hybrid is now ready, Rs6 turbine and the 2280 compressor wheel, It took alot of work to get the turbine housing to a stage that would be good and healthy to accept the large in comparison to the K03 turbine, A lot of porting was needed to get a good airflow around the turbine and out into the Downpipe, thankfully there was more than enough meat on the housing that I wasn't worried about it becoming too thin. Infact where I ended up machining and porting there was plenty of material.

    Here's a few pictures of the finished item it still have a stock actuator on it as I needed it to line it all up properly but this will be replaced with an uprated 10 psi actuator which will be more than adequate for this setup.

    As you can see a stock K04 compressor housing had to be used to cater for the larger compressor wheel, and this means that the inlet end has moved, but as an uprated FMIC will be needed anyway this shouldn't be an issue as custom pipe work will be on the cards anyway, the other issue is the fact this now needs a S3 3" maf and as such a new TIP will need to be made to accomadte the larger inlet and 3" maf. I am going to try a stock K04 one and see if I can manipulate it so it all faces the correct directions where needed otherwise I'll have to make one up from scratch,
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  24. caspar

    caspar New Member

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    Hi guys,

    I'm going to build a hybrid turbo for my a4 1.8t based on my k03-029. I want to make it the same as k04-023 (tt/s3). So I have a big wondering if the turbine housing will be enough for the tt compressor wheel or I need k04 housing (are the k03 and the k04 housings the same?), for the k04-015 wheel there is no problem. I know that the turbine housing is enough for the bigger wheel.

    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  25. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    S3 compressor wheel will not fit in the original housing you will need to use a k04 housing .
     
  26. caspar

    caspar New Member

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    Do you know what other brands use the same k04 housing as OEM? I could find it used.
     
  27. BA4

    BA4 Member

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    will the 1.8 decat kit fit the 1.9tdi diesels on the a4, heard that they do??
     
  28. aklonitos

    aklonitos New Member

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    Are there any news from this application?
     
  29. vtraudt

    vtraudt New Member

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  30. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    2580 =
    2.5" exducer by 80% inducer

    63.5mm exducer by 50.8mm inducer..
     
  31. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    As for update. I finally fitted the turbo to my a4 cab. Currently it's running around 210bhp but only on 15psi as the injectors(stock) are maxed.. Fitting 380cc ones tomorrow
     
    olly quattro likes this.
  32. olly quattro

    olly quattro Member

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    keep us posted :)
     
  33. vwgtiking

    vwgtiking Active Member

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    Subscribed.
     
  34. Stickystuff

    Stickystuff Member

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    I'm not sure this thread is really alive vwgtiking
    No updates since May and it was 2 years before that last time it was updated
     
  35. vtraudt

    vtraudt New Member

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    Just to those looking into KKK/BW style turbos: we are manufacturing custom turbos (including billet comp wheels). From K03 to the largest that can still be fit on stock application (1.8T, 2.7T). Here is for example a log of a B6 1.8T with our TM5+ billet turbo (note: 22 psi stock map limit, N75 control, wastegate at 50% duty cycle at redline). Also a plot comparison with a GTRS tuned B6: TM5+ 092814.jpg GTRS vs TM5+ boost chart.jpg
     
  36. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Impressive but those graphs are never from a k03 turbine housing from the a4!
     
  37. vwgtiking

    vwgtiking Active Member

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    Beachbuggy. What's you final analysis on your set up for an a4 1.8t?
     
  38. vwgtiking

    vwgtiking Active Member

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    Got my custom on its way. 51mm turbo outlet with 80mm maf outlet.


    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1418672333.893632.jpg
     
  39. variosso

    variosso Vorsprung Durch Technik

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  40. vwgtiking

    vwgtiking Active Member

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    The guy I bought this off is now selling them on eBay.
     

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