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Audi A4 Cabriolet Soft Top/ Roof / Hood Motor Repair Guide

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by VagPro, Sep 25, 2011.

  1. derek_acorah
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    derek_acorah New Member

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    Morning All,

    Am likely to be having a go at following these instructions at the weekend. My symptom is the following.....

    Operate roof switch....roof pops off the front of the car and hangs 5 cms or so from the front.
    Nothing else happens.....The box does not pop up, no motor noises etc. On operating the close switch the roof closes. Manually, the roof works okay.

    I've got a local chap to run a diagnostic. He got the 'implausible' fault code, which he cleared. After that, no faults, but roof still inoperable. Still, he didn't charge anything.

    So....is it sounding like the motor? If so, I'm going to have a go at getting it out, and probs send it to the chap in Harrogate.

    After my last experience at a south coast Audi main dealer, I will not ever be returning to an audi dealer....

    Any advice as to whether my symptom is a match for the problem discussed on this thread, gratefully received.
  2. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Hello Derek,

    Sounds like you have the same problem for which I have written the guide on i.e. brushes not making contact with the commutator. Personally I do not feel that there is a need to remove the motor (loose fluid) and send it away. After cleaning AND prying open the brush carriers my roof (and many other peoples roofs) have worked flawlessly.

    Regards
  3. RanSac
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    RanSac New Member

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    I'm a newbie that bought an '08 B7 S4 Cabriolet a few months ago and just discovered this similar problem. Are the A4/S4 tops the same and have similar procedures for checking and cleaning the motor?

    Many thanks for a Yank Across the Pond...
  4. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Hello,

    Yes A4 and S4 roof's should be the same, don't forget to pry open the brush carriers ensuring the brushes can move freely :)
  5. RanSac
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    RanSac New Member

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    Thanks! Planning on attempting this weekend. I'll post how I make out.
  6. derek_acorah
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    derek_acorah New Member

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    Thanks for the reply, and the guide. I'll certainly try your steps first. This is gonna be by far the most complicated thing I've ever tried to do to a car; if it works for me, well, if there are a4 cab owning chimps out there, they'll be sorted too. :)
  7. vas67
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    vas67 New Member

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    I fixed one of these motors yesterday.
    It seems ( well in my case) the brush carriers are the main problem.

    Gently pry open the brush carriers with a flat blade screwdriver then check brush tension onto commutator. There is a small spring behind the brush which which keeps the load on.
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  8. derek_acorah
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    derek_acorah New Member

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    Gentlemen / Ladies / and any possible Simian A4 cab owners.....

    Fixed!!!! W00t!

    Uncanny that it was bloody *exactly* as you described. The commutator was fairly black, and the brush holders, although they were kind of yielding, occasionally seemed to be sticking.

    Followed your instructions to the letter. Sandpaper on screwdriver, span motor by hand, very thin flat blade screwdriver to prise the brush holders apart. Couple of tiny drops of WD40 too. When I'd finished, they had a nice pingy action back to the comutator which they didn't really have before.

    Getting the trim out and back in by far the most diffucult bit.

    I'm not an engineer, I've never done this sort of thing before, ever. Crackingly good instructions. Seriously all, if I can do it, *anyone* can do it.

    Vagpro, sir....what can I say but thanks.

    Cheers,

    Derek.
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  9. CBlunt
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    CBlunt New Member

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    Hello all,

    This looks like the best place to ask a question regarding a 2007 / B7 Roof?

    Last Friday (nice weather) decided to drop the roof, I'm pretty sure when I tried, the roof operation indicator on the dash flashed and said something like roof can't operate, but by the time I'd noticed it was gone. I just tried again and the roof went down without any issue. Later, went to put the roof up and it didn't work. The roof cover unlatched and lifted a couple of inches then stopped, it would close again but that was it - none of the usual mechanical noises when raising or lowering the roof.

    I thought OK, better put the roof up manually. Found the key thing, undid the roof cover but it didn't spring up, I felt like this was going from bad to worse. I was 150 miles from home staying with family in Dorset. Thankfully there was a local indy - So I popped the car round to him and he was kind enough to put the diags on it, but found no fault, due to time and local he helped me raise the roof manually so I could get home.

    Now when I switch the ignition on I get the warning light flash a few times and that's it. I haven't actually tried retracting the roof again since it was manually raised as I didn't want to be stuck again.

    In the opinion of the learned folks here, do I need to take the motor to bits? Or should I seek professional advice?

    TIA - Chris.
  10. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Hi Chris,

    No fault codes, no motor whirring noises, only lifts a couple of inches = take the motor to bits. Dont forget to pry open the brush carriers.

    Also for future ref, you need to depressurise the system before closing it manually.

    "Vehicles up to 04.2006
    The hydraulic system is deactivated 10 minutes after the convertible top switch was last actuated with the ignition on and on switching off the ignition. If the hydraulic system pressure is to be maintained, press the convertible top switch briefly with the ignition switched on.

    Vehicles as of 05.2006
    The hydraulic system is deactivated 10 minutes after switching off the ignition. To depressurise the system before this (for manual convertible top actuation), the convertible top switch must be actuated for 3 seconds with “ignition off”. If the hydraulic system pressure is to be maintained, press the convertible top switch briefly with the ignition switched on."
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  11. CBlunt
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    CBlunt New Member

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    VagPro, thanks for the extra information on depressurising the hydraulic system first, that's a handy tip. I will attempt to strip down the motor. If I get stuck would you be prepared to take a look for a fee. I'm about 10 miles away from Leicester as it happens.

    Thanks again~
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  12. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Hi, sent you a PM
  13. Steve77
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    Steve77 Member

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    Hey man, so my roof has finally stopped working. Just the common raise a couple of inches.
    I've read the fault codes and got this:
    3 Faults Found:
    02000 - Switch Position
    008 - Implausible Signal
    03245 - Canopy Position Implausible
    008 - Implausible Signal
    01986 - Convertible Top Frame Position Sensor (G356)
    012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit

    I then cleared them and tried the roof again and got a repeat of this code:

    02000 - Switch Position
    008 - Implausible Signal
    What's my next move!?

    Thanks for your help.
  14. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Hello Steve,

    Are you using a full version of VCDS? I thought that you would also expect a switch identify as well as the fault code. In any case. Check the measuring blocks group 1, fields 2 and 3 and compare the switch positions against the tables on the link below:

    Audi A4 (8E) Automatic Roof - Ross-Tech Wiki

    This will identify which switch is giving the fault code, next thing would be to check the switch manually with a multimeter. If the switch is working it could be a wiring fault.
  15. Steve77
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    Steve77 Member

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    Ok, assuming I done this right.
    (might have to go and do it again).
    When I had the switch pulled up to open the roof it read : 11000110 & 10 1010
    When I had the switch pushed down to close is read: 11011010 & 10 1010

    Is it worth me resetting the switch values to 1? I see this suggested around.
    Not that I'm 100% sure what I'm doing. But I'm a quick learner. :)
  16. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Need the measuring block values for when the roof is fully closed and fully open (without the switch being pressed). By comparing these against the link earlier you can identify which roof position switch is giving the incorrect signal.

    Remind me, did you do the motor clean? Is there any motor noise?

    You may need to de pressurise the roof system before being able to operate it manually

    "Vehicles up to 04.2006
    The hydraulic system is deactivated 10 minutes after the convertible top switch was last actuated with the ignition on and on switching off the ignition. If the hydraulic system pressure is to be maintained, press the convertible top switch briefly with the ignition switched on.

    Vehicles as of 05.2006
    The hydraulic system is deactivated 10 minutes after switching off the ignition. To depressurise the system before this (for manual convertible top actuation), the convertible top switch must be actuated for 3 seconds with “ignition off”. If the hydraulic system pressure is to be maintained, press the convertible top switch briefly with the ignition switched on."
  17. Steve77
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    Steve77 Member

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    Ah ok, makes sense now. whoops!
    I'll go and do that shortly.

    Thanks for your time.
  18. Steve77
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    Steve77 Member

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    I havn't done the motor clean yet, and have a feeling it's where I need to go.
    I don't hear a motor noise aside from the noise the roof makes when it unlatches from the front.
    Just done the measuring block data and all the numbers check out in accordance to that page.
    I'm now not getting any error codes either.

    So....motor clean then.....?
  19. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Hi Steve, if measuring blocks check out ok and there are no fault codes then motor clean indeed :)
  20. Steve77
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    Steve77 Member

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    Ok mate, thanks for your help.
    Wish me luck! :sadlike:
  21. CBlunt
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    CBlunt New Member

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    Another success story....

    Following the excellent instructions, I took most of the boot to bits. Cleaned the communicator which was dirty looking. I then went on to move the brushes back and forth. One was definitely sticking, it would pull back but not return. I sprayed some WD40 into a pot, dipped a watchmakers screwdriver into it then just spotted a little about where I was prying the brushes back and forth. I did this several times until the brush moved freely. Reassembled and she's working like new! :w00t:

    I would like to add the following: I was very careful when undoing anything or removing the trim, applying gradual pressure and jiggling things until they released. Given that anything you break is likely to be expensive. Taking my time this process took about 90 minutes.

    Big thanks to VagPro.
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  22. Andrewr12
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    Andrewr12 New Member

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    Hi firstly another big thanks to VagPro.

    My partners car is showing the same symptoms as VagPro explained earlier in the thread. Although time and light were against me the detailed guide enabled me to quickly get to the motor. Now although I have little mechanical knowledge electric motors are okay as worked all my life in the R/C industry. One of the brushes in the motor is very badly worn as has been arcing for some time and ideally I would like to change them or at very least strip and clean the brush hoods and reshape the brush.

    Has anyone tried this or successfully removed just the motor as I feel I will only get the summer out of this one.

    Many thanks
  23. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Hello Andrew,

    You can remove the brush from the carrier by removing the little plastic cap on the top of the carrier that retains the spring. However will running the motor not "bed" the brush back to commutator surface?

    The other option is to contact the guy on eBay who reconditions these motors, he seems fairly reasonable and I am certain he would sell you the brushes only...

    Keep me posted on how you get on.
  24. Andrewr12
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    Andrewr12 New Member

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    Hi many thanks for the reply.

    Yes I think you are correct about bedding in the brushes again I am just a little concerned that I only have around half of the face touching on one of the brushes almost like broken away. The other is fine and will bed in great.

    I am not able to look at the car until tomorrow but would really like to remove it so I can inspect properly hopefully rescue the brush if not sure I can find a replacement. Probably being stupid could not see how to release the brush last night.

    Once again many thanks, will let you know.
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  25. Andrewr12
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    Andrewr12 New Member

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    Hi,

    Just looking at the photos on the first page as unfortunately cannot get to the car at the moment, must be being thick but cannot see the plastic carrier to remove. Any pointers, sorry for being slow on the uptake
  26. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Hello Andrew,

    What plastic carrier? The links on the guide are sections in the Audi workshop manual which gives you step by step instructions....
  27. Andrewr12
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    Andrewr12 New Member

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    Hi,

    Many thanks again for the reply, sorry I meant to say the plastic cap on the carrier. Will have a look tomorrow and see how I get on.
  28. Steve77
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    Steve77 Member

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    Firstly a massive thanks to VagPro for this. i can now confirm I am another success story!!!
    Am so chuffed!

    On another note, Andrewr12 I seem to have a similar issue to you. One of my brushes seemed to be degraded and little bits broke away when i tried to clean it up. Am interested in seeing how you get on with replacing these.
    VagPro, do you know on ebay who does the recondition kits as I'd like to replace that brush in the long run.

    Steve
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  29. Andrewr12
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    Andrewr12 New Member

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    Hi all.

    VagPro

    Many thanks all good roof working as new. There is not much that has not already been said on here but I very greatful for the assistance you offered. If you are ever in the need for boys toys R/C related let me know, I owe you one.

    Steve77

    I could not see an easy way to release the brush, sure I am missing something. Separating the motor from the hydraulic part would hopefully allow me to remove the commutator however a brief look concerned me with needing to remove the impeller to enable the commutator to pass through. I have seen on eBay a repair kit with impeller which I would probably get before tackling. Sure VagPro will clear this up for us but in the mean time like all of us on here I am well chuffed thanks to him.
  30. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Hi Andy,

    Firstly I would like to apologise as I was incorrect about the plastic cap on the top of the brush carriers to replace the brushes, I was getting confused with another motor design. I beleive you should be able to remove the brushes after actually removing the motor, you may need to solder off the brush carriers as well. see links below for motor removal:

    Removing Motor
    Removing Impeller - Probably worth replacing when you have it apart? (Check the prices with the dealer first)

    The guy on eBay does recondition these motors his number is 07788 922927 and link

    Thank you for the offer on RC cars, I actually do own one that is about 15 years old ! but it is battery operated and am looking to by a 1:10 petrol one. (I'll message you for advice when I am ready)

    Enjoy the sunshine guys and if you found this thread useful please like my FB page and leave a comment
  31. audiconvert
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    audiconvert New Member

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    hello guys im new to this but unfortunatley seem to share a very common fault and am in desperate need of help or advise to avoid that huge dealer repair price.

    bought my 2006 audi a4 last week and while checking the car over the roof went up and down perfectly.

    however after insuring it i used it for the first time on sunday, the roof went down perfectly however when i tried to close it the back cover just lifted an inch and that was it, i manually closed it and it now it just unlatched and lifts an inch from the front. basicly that exact problem everyone else here describes.

    so far i have cheked the fuse, tried the manual reset by opening and closing 2 times, and followed vagpro's very good and detailed cleaning process but so far with no luck:(

    on a scan i got loads of codes but after a clear and re read i got:

    03245 convertible top position implausible

    any help with this would be much appriciated i feel so gutted that i have only just bought this car and have not even had the chance to enjoy it before its gone wrong.

    a thanks in advance for any response.
  32. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Hello,

    Sorry to hear about the spot of bad luck, don’t worry provided you are thorough and patient repairing it will not be a problem and shouldn’t cost anywhere as much as the stealers are charge.

    Firstly you say you have followed my guide, did you pry open the brush carriers? Did you check the brushes are free to move in the carriers and they are making contact with the commutator? If not, do this before proceeding to the next steps below


    I am assuming that the fault code you have mentioned is not clearing, making sure the roof is closed and locked check if the fault code clears, if not:

    You need to check measuring block values blocks group 1, fields 2 and 3 and compare the switch positions against the tables on Ross Tech. This has to be done for when the roof is fully closed and fully open (without the operation switch being pressed). By comparing these against this link

    Audi A4 (8E) Automatic Roof - Ross-Tech Wiki

    You will identify which roof position switch is giving the incorrect signal, next thing would be to check the switch manually with a multimeter. If the switch is working it could be a wiring fault.

    You may need to de pressurise the roof system before being able to operate it manually

    "Vehicles up to 04.2006
    The hydraulic system is deactivated 10 minutes after the convertible top switch was last actuated with the ignition on and on switching off the ignition. If the hydraulic system pressure is to be maintained, press the convertible top switch briefly with the ignition switched on.

    Vehicles as of 05.2006
    The hydraulic system is deactivated 10 minutes after switching off the ignition. To depressurise the system before this (for manual convertible top actuation), the convertible top switch must be actuated for 3 seconds with “ignition off”. If the hydraulic system pressure is to be maintained, press the convertible top switch briefly with the ignition switched on."
  33. Steve77
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    Steve77 Member

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    Found this on the Ross Tech site.

    VagPro may be able to offer more insight.....
    03245 - Ross-Tech Wiki
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  34. audiconvert
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    audiconvert New Member

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    thank you very much for your help, so i done a scan again to check as u asked to see if it clears or stays but it said no fault code this time :S even after operating the soft top a few times it still says no fault code.

    also i did do the cleaning process by following your guide, but i wasnt 100% on the hole freeing off the brushes bit, as in where exactli the bits im supposed to free off are so i didnt actuallty complete that step but after re reading everying i seem to understand its the 2 side bits that contacts (with the metal wire attached to it) and so am now about to re open the pump and give that a go so will let u no how that went very soon.

    again thanks
  35. CBlunt
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    CBlunt New Member

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    I had a sticking brush on mine. Basically these are housed in the brass coloured oblong things and have the wire attached. In front of the wire you can see a bit of a slot, this is where I held the tip of a screw driver (firmly) and slipped the brush back and forth. One was sticking the other sprung back when released. I lubricated the sticking one with some WD40. I didn't spray it in, just took some time and applied it from the tip of the screwdriver into the slot where the wire is and each time moved it back and forth again repeating until it sprung back as the other one did.

    I suspect this sticking may be caused by lack of use over the winter, and perhaps we should all drop the roofs once a week even during the winter just to keep things moving.

    Hope you get yours fixed.
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  36. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    Cheers Chris,

    Yes "audiconvert" it is more than likely the brush is stuck, see pic below, insert a small flat head screwdriver and pry open the carrier, then make sure the brush is moving freely :)

    Picture 036.jpg
  37. audiconvert
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    audiconvert New Member

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    VAGPRO STRIKES AGAIN .. thank you guys sooo much i wish you could have all seen my face when that roof went all the way :laugh:

    seriously thanks for all the help and a massive thanks to vagpro

    it was a messy repair but got there in the end, the brushes were very badly seized, as they would not free up i pulled open the back of the brush carrier to remove the spring and just give more space to be able to lubricate it but the litte lug on the back of the carrier broke off :( after alott of cleaning & freeing off the brush is still abit stiff but alot better, i soldierd the lug back on put it all back together and it worksss :)

    could have dont it without you guys especially vagpro, next time im in leicester i owe you a pint, infact a whole crate.

    will were on the subject off the roof i thought ill ask, i noticed the roof will operate when i put the key in the door and hold it, is there any way to programme the key so that i can operate the roof remotely by pressing a button on the remote?

    SUCCESS STORY THANKS TO VAGPRO
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  38. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    :) Glad you got it sorted, if you don't mind please leave a comment on my fb page, I believe this is what you are looking for in regard to enhanced roof operation

    Cabrio Comfort Module - Audi A4 8H

    (however I think 250 Euro is a bit expensive for a bit of electronics !)
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  39. pez5918
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    pez5918 New Member

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    Suggestions please , sorry if its been asked previously but I've got gremlins in my roof. Initially stopped half up , manually opened fully, found it would not operate to close at all , closed manually then found it now opens the classic inch or so at the front . The rear motor was silent so tried your advice and cleaned the motor brushes remembering all you said , All reassembled and now I can hear the rear motor kick into life but roof will still only open an inch up front , I have noticed the manual method is not how it should be in that the red key is near on impossible to turn , any more pressure it would snap in the rear key hole , wondering if the mechanism may be seized and causing this or am I barking up the wrong tree , I'm no mechanic btw lol
  40. pez5918
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    pez5918 New Member

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    Suggestions please , sorry if its been asked previously but I've got gremlins in my roof. Initially stopped half up , manually opened fully, found it would not operate to close at all , closed manually then found it now opens the classic inch or so at the front . The rear motor was silent so tried your advice and cleaned the motor brushes remembering all you said , All reassembled and now I can hear the rear motor kick into life but roof will still only open an inch up front , I have noticed the manual method is not how it should be in that the red key is near on impossible to turn , any more pressure it would snap in the rear key hole , wondering if the mechanism may be seized and causing this or am I barking up the wrong tree , I'm no mechanic btw lol

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