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Audi A4 B6, 2.5TDI Quattro V6, Remap.. Faulty??

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by quattro_izzy, Jan 10, 2010.

  1. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    Hi guys,

    I have just had my Audi a4 2.5TDI quattro remapped. It was originally 180BHP and is suppose to be "30/35BHP". I have had a blow up with a few of my friends who have a seat cupra 1.8T and he still leaves me in the dust... It has got a slight power in torque and defo the fuel economy has gone up... but i dont see a major difference as stated, 30+BHP and 70NM of torque. I heard diesels are meant to be very torquey, but the map doesnt seem to be doing its job correctly. Any ideas guys???

    Thanks
    #1
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  3. chrisash32
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    chrisash32 Member

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    where was the map from?
    #2
  4. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    i got it done from Evolution Chips.
    #3
  5. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    The only way you will ever know for sure is a rolling road test before and after. Does the car feel quicker? With an extra 30bhp you should be in no doubt whether it's working or not.

    When I fitted the DPT tuning box to mine it was instantly and noticeable quicker and also had a smoother torque curve.
    #4
  6. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    RE: a blow-up vs a 1.8T.... remember that the Cupra is a LOT lighter....1600kg vs 1300kg

    you can only really make that extra torque count in the higher gears, so it'll be the 40mph-140mph that you should give him a lot more run for his money... or try him in the snow :)
    #5
  7. J7USS
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    J7USS Shuddup Foooool!!

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    you sure you aint expecting too much of a difference if you get what I mean??

    ...get some pics up of your motor too - I can see a Kit!:eyebrows:
    #6
  8. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    i can feel a bit of torque difference, to be honest not 30bhp or 70nm of torque "as quoted". i had taken it for a rn on an open stretch and it seems to reach top end alot slower, i used 2 reach 135 in no time and now it seems like its struggling :S???????
    #7
  9. J7USS
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    J7USS Shuddup Foooool!!

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    Ahh right yeah sounds like a dodgy map then. We all know our own motors so from what you said then you'd know when it aint running right...
    #8
  10. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    yeahh thats what i mean... before the map it was okay, but from a map i was expecting a total increase of power. one of my fellas has a golf 1.9tdi ad after a map, he was keeping upto golf vr6`s. he had a great amount of increase. you guys think it could be the map or anything else, i.e maf sensors etc......
    #9
  11. J7USS
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    J7USS Shuddup Foooool!!

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    Where you based?do you have access to a Vagcom??
    Id give it a scan and see if it throws up any faults first or infact go back to them who map'd it and get them to look over it explaining to them it aint right.
    It has been known for faults after a map such has Split/leaky boost hose etc so chances still could be that. 1st call would be back to Evolution Chips.

    When they map'd it for you, did you not test drive it before you left??
    #10
  12. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    brilliaint i am going to take ti back to them. i did but coming from standard torque to abit more power, it seemed fine. The guy did also mention it may need time to "wear in" seemed abit funky if you ask me as i thought a map is meant to kick in right away???
    #11
  13. Marc1
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    Marc1 Member

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    If you've got VAG COM you can do some 0-60 runs too, plus boost pressure, N75, MAF etc. COuld highlight issues. Certainly trhe 0-60 will show if it's faster than stock.
    #12
  14. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    thanks guys, i will do some runs and see what it comes out as, will keep you guys updated... going to do some 0-60`s :)
    #13
  15. 5102 IA
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    5102 IA Member

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    Are Evolution chips also known as ECU-Evolution (Based in Newport)? If so I've been considering this remap too, so would be interested to here how things turn out.
    I spotted ECU-Evolution while trawling e-bay and their remap looked to be a good price compared with a Tunit V-VP for example (£195 vs. £315).

    I have my doubts about tuning boxes too, I had a Tunit V-PD on my last 1.9TDI B7, but to be honest I didnt think their was a discernable difference, but if anyone has had good results with one on the 2.5TDi 180 I'd be grateful to hear about it.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
    #14
  16. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    right guys... ive just given mine a run, im doing 0-60mph in about 7.8 seconds.... Parkers guide suggests stock is: 8.1 seconds... HELP!!!!

    5102 JA. no ECU evo is a different company... When i hopefully fix my problem will let you know about the company itself?
    #15
  17. Pendle Performance
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    Pendle Performance New Member

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    [Jan 11, 2010]
    Auto or manual?

    These Auto 2.5TDI - 180bhp require the gearbox ecu to be tuned as well

    Tuned the 2.5TDI will produce max 210bhp & 420Nm of torque which is an increase of 30bhp & 50Nm of torque.

    If you have vag-com get some logs of blocks 003 & 008 & 011

    You are welcome to email them over to me and I can check the fuelling and make sure the MAF is giving correct readings.

    Regards
    Martin
    #16
  18. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 11, 2010]
    Hi Martin, brilliant i will get the guy that chipped it to get me these logs and shall email them over to you.

    I am just wondering its performing now like it should (after the map) This could mean it was under performing as stock :s....
    #17
  19. sammi
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    sammi Member

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    [Jan 11, 2010]
    Cars will gradually lose performance with age but not a massive amount. I think the key point above is with 30 extra horsepower and 50+ nm you should feel a nice difference over your standard car...
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
    #18
  20. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Jan 11, 2010]
    I don't think they should slow down at all: mine was running 175bhp (180Ps, so should be 177bhp) and that's 8yrs old, 127k miles....

    edit: correction: 127k miles when it was tested.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
    #19
  21. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 11, 2010]
    I have a PSI Motorsport tuning box and its brilliant. Had the ecu chipped at some point as i have a 180Bhp engine in a b5 (transplanted) and i had a respectable tunner upload a modified map wich did not deliver as it should ! I had power very high up the rev range 3000rpm+ wich me engine rarely sees (unless on the motorway). With the tuning box i have the torque low down, where it really matters. Needles to say that i asked the chap to return the map back to standard and i kept the box ! Get a good tuning box like mine or Steinbauer and you wont look back ! There are piggyback boxes (plug into the pump and loom) and the ones wich tap into the fuel advance solenoid(like the PSI one)- wich really work but, if you have a brand new pump or rebuilt- it will invalidate the warranty !
    If you wanna try mine with a few mods and you close to N. London, give me a shout, i will take you for a ride !
    #20
  22. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 11, 2010]
    adams244 many thanks for that buddy, i am going to consider that, after the guy who mapped it has come to a "conclusion"ik will take it from there. i have also just had it booked into Audi themselves to get a full check done on the car. could need valve clearance o something...? it has covered 138K.
    #21
  23. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 11, 2010]
    Needs what ? If it was ok to start with and it goes slower than before, then its just a bad map ! I will take a Steinbauer tuning box over any "custom" or generic map any day...it just does what it says on the box ! They are too pricey though.
    #22
  24. Pendle Performance
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    Pendle Performance New Member

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    [Jan 11, 2010]
    I agree some tuning boxes are better than others but there is no way on earth a tuning box can beat a well made custom tuned map, its just a shame there are so many cowboys in the tuning game claiming or advertising custom maps when really they are cheap 5min generic maps bought over email.

    If there is anyone in the north west who wants to test a true tuned map I'd be happy to assist with a trail and I can guarantee if they did have a tuning box at the start this will be going on eBay.

    Izzy,

    If you throw the logs over to my email (found on website) I'll see whats going on with your vehicle.

    "Anyone bolted a snow plough onto a 996turbo as the weather round here is starting to get me down"
    #23
  25. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 11, 2010]
    I beg to differ mate ! I had tried few mapped v6 tdi, they just dont deliver(me missus passat v6 tdi is remaped). I have driven a few cars with Van Aaken boxes, had a PSI Motorsport tuning chip on me old car and i also have one on me quattro as well. One of my friends has a AMD map on his a6 v6 tdi quattro avant and its *****. My car puls harder, and goes much better than his and his is a minter(2001) with no faults. The other day i have driven an ABT remapped a6 quattro v6 tdi, the same flat linear response and not that quick as i thought it will be. I also driven an passat with a steinbauer box and it was savage. Me other audi a6(FWD v6 tdi) will spin the wheels in 2nd and 3rd gear and goes all the way to 140Mph with the same box. This is mine and i challenge anyone who wants to take a drive in it before slating that all the tuning boxes are **** !
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #24
  26. 5102 IA
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    5102 IA Member

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    [Jan 11, 2010]
    Hi Izzy.

    Just so happens I'm in the Northwest and I'm keen to try a remap over a tuning box this time around, so I might take you up on that offer and see how it compares!

    Ian
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
    #25
  27. Marc1
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    Marc1 Member

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    [Jan 12, 2010]
    What do these tuning boxes actually do? I thought they just fooled the ECU into thinking the temperature was colder than it actually was so it would dump more fuel in. Is that not the case? Nowadays I do hear more and more positive feedback from owners with tuning boxes.
    #26
  28. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 16, 2010]
    Hi Guys,

    I have just had the car all checked over by the chap who Re-mapped it for me. It has made a real difference to the fuel consumption, but still does not seem to pull like it should.... He said it is the MAF sensor, as he disconnected the sensor and before it came into limp mode, it really pulled alot more. I have now ordered a new MAF sensor, just praying this is the only problem.

    Also we had VAG-COM connected, and it came up with this error code: 18080 cooling fan control 1 open circuit / short with ground p1672 intermittent.... Ahh Helppp!! ive try founding out what this code means, and any resolutions??

    Thanks in advance guys
    #27
  29. Pendle Performance
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    Pendle Performance New Member

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    [Jan 16, 2010]
    So he had vagcom and he didn't simply log the MAF with blocks 003 to see what amount of air it was reading? Se he isn't 100% sure its the MAF as all he did was pull it off.

    Going into limp mode is something completely different to the fault MAF, the MAF really is a fail safe "Fuel Limiter" as it measures the amount of air coming in and then within the engine control unit there is a Smokemap "MAF 'vs' rpm = Fuel injected"

    The limp mode is more that likely to over boost.

    Vag-Com log blocks 011 this will get the ECU requested boost and also the actual boost, Log in 3rd gear full throttle right across the rev-range.

    All tuners should learn to use diagnostics and fault find, its not a case of flashing a generic tuned file into a ecu and also doing a simple fault-code check.
    #28
  30. mattyboyc
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    mattyboyc Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 16, 2010]
    Did you have the tunnit set up to your car on their laptop? as this made a massive difference to mine!!
    #29
  31. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 16, 2010]
    The ones you talk are cheapo "resistor-in-a-box" off ebay ! Get a decent make: Steinbauer, Dragon Motorsport, PSI Motorsport, Van Aaken and you wont look back ! If your car is stock, then a tuning box/chip will add at least 30 Bhp with min. 50Nm of torque. most generic maps are limiting torque low down to save the clutch and they just dont feel right. Also, if you decide to tune your car any further or decide to sell, you can just remove the box and sell it on- they still very desirable ! Also, if you get a Steinbauer box, they are fully adjustable(for economy and torque+ max. torque/Bhp) and you can upload new map/let them tweak it just like a remap, to suit your mods and car. I also seen a few pd 130 with "custom" remaps wich had all the values turned on to the max... Result, the new hybrid turbocharger, only lasted a few weeks ! Guess what, they blamed the turbo ! There are very few real/old school tuners who understand how these engine work and who know in detail how to tweeak them maps...
    #30
  32. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 16, 2010]
    He did make some logs, he was driving and he made me log the MAF sensor recordings... I Believe on VAG-COM, for the maf sensor check it says: Actual and comparing to target or something... During 1st to second gear they match up figures... But in 3rd gear they drop off and there is a big diff between actual and target.... Is this the MAF?

    Also he did the boost check in 3rd gear and logged these too... He said the boost level is fine.

    Isit worth me changing the MAF? as i have previously read and it is advised this should be changed every 40K miles? If this is the case i dont think mine has been changed at all....

    Any advice Guys?????
    #31
  33. BILKO1
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    BILKO1 Member

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    [Jan 17, 2010]
    #32
  34. Pendle Performance
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    Pendle Performance New Member

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    [Jan 17, 2010]
    1st & 2nd gear are no good for logging 3rd is ok but 4th is better if you have enough private road as you will break the speed limits on public roads doing full logs in 3rd gear.

    If you have logged you should have the logs to look at or did you just simply look at the screen while driving?

    Blocks 003 which are the MAF have the specified and also actual, don't worry so much about the specified what we want is the actual readings and need these in a log to see whats going on.

    The MAF's are a very common problem but really no tuner should map with the vehicle having a bad MAF, these problems should be fixed first and then you can start to tune the vehicle.

    If the MAF is giving wrong figures you will have reduced fuelling so this effects the power output. Very very unlikey this is going to cause limp-mode.

    My advice would be to put the car back to stock (Original Software) and then fix the problems and then map on a good running engine.

    If you can find the logs email them over I'm more than happy to look at them for you.
    #33
  35. Pendle Performance
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    Pendle Performance New Member

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    [Jan 17, 2010]
    Easier said than done, Unfortunately many people get into the (ECU Generic File Flashing) Tuning with no background or experience I know many tuning companies that will take agents on who haven't a clue how a engine works but as long as they can use a laptop happy days!!!

    This Saturday I repaired a chaps VW T4 2.5TDI that had been to a branch of a well known (or well marketed) uk tuning company, the vehicle was off the road for 3weeks with a dead ecu. (On soldering they had applied far to much heat and ended up lifting the pads from the PCB)

    At the end of the day the end customer should do background checks and also ask tuners simple questions if they struggle to answer or are talking complete **** walk away and find someone else as its your car so why settle for anything less than perfection?

    New Engine Control units are out now so hopefully these cowboy tuners will fade away as no cheap china cloned tools will read or write these and pro tuners are starting to protect there work so these cowboys will not be able to copy others peoples hard work!!!
    #34
  36. etronic
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    etronic TDI VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 17, 2010]
    where about are you. Just ask someone with VCDS to do full diag and make some logs. Post them here and we'll see.... Simplest solution
    #35
  37. quattro_izzy
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    quattro_izzy New Member

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    [Jan 17, 2010]
    Hi guys, thanks for all the advice, what i shall do is get the log readings and post them here... I have no much knowledge what these codes mean etc... so im sure you guys can give me a hand... I have spoken to him and he is willing to remove the Map and reinstall it when the MAF has been repaired.

    Will keep you guys posted

    Regards
    #36
  38. Pendle Performance
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    Pendle Performance New Member

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    [Jan 18, 2010]
    This is good news, Also if you can get us a block 003 log and post here or email it over to me I'll check the readings out and let you know. Be a good idea to do logs of 008 and also 011 as well. All separate logs in the same gear.. i.e 3rd and just full 100% throttle into the red-line..

    Regards
    Martin
    #37

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