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Audi A3 S3 8L Concert II to Double Din RNS-D Rare Satnav Installed in a 2002 Audi S3

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by AviatorRichards3, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. AviatorRichards3
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    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Hi, my name is Anton Richards, and i am creating this thread as I know there is a demand for people showing the single din to double din to RNSD conversion.

    I am well aware that there is already a post on how to go from Concert I or concert II to Symphony II. Si I am merely just showing that I have gone through the procedure of changing from single din to double din, and managed to install the very rare genuine audi a3 s3 RNS-D satnav unit into my car.

    First of all i would like to say BIG thank you to: ScotB5 and g60leigh for their help with this project.

    Me
    Now this is something that i have wanted to do for a very long time, but Its one of those things that seems very daunting and therefore ive put it off until now.

    I am currently training to be a commercial pilot. I already Hold a Private Pilots License (PPL) and i am currently studying the theory to the commercial license. Now the audi S3 has always been a dream care for me, but the cost of one and cost of insurance at the age of 20/21 is ridiculous and therefore i have made do with a very good 1999 audi a3 TDi 110.

    I have been waiting for the perfect car to come up, as i did not want to buy a molested, tuned up and frankly ruined version. So ive bided my time, and it was very very worth it as I just got hold of a mint condition 2002 Audi S3 8L in lovely gloss black with the blue and black half leather half suede interior, full electric seats, electric sunroof, and even built in satnav, but not the RNSD type, its the in dashboard trip computer type plus lots lots more. So the car was fully loaded.

    I did not want it modified, and im not really a fast driver, as training as a pilot, you cannot afford to have any points on your driving license as it will effect other aspects of my flying career and completely ruin my dream.

    Overall i am very happy with the car, the only thing i would say is that motorway economy is not great, and not what i thought, even for me, who drives at a modest 70 MPH with cruse control on and aircon off (eco on). I still only get 30MPG (trip computer read out) so im not sure how accurate that really is, but I drive to training and to the airfield for flying every week and £50 gets me around 220 miles. Im not to sure how good/bad this is for this car, but for me its not great, as my old tdi used to do 500 miles for around £45 driving faster then i do now.

    SO IF ANYONE COULD TELL ME ABOUT ECONOMY RE MAP, i would be very greatful.

    Now back to the Nav:

    Below are some photos of my unit once installed, as g60leigh has already made a montage of the steps to go through for installation, I am merely showing the finished product, as I do not want to take the light away from his efforts.

    Now below is what i started with when i purchased the car. This is the concert II bose system that comes factory installed unless otherwise purchased, in the audi S3 8L:

    IMG_1347.jpg IMG_1349.jpg

    If you do not know whether you have double din or single din, concert I or II or Symphony i or II, the link below should help you to determine what your car is equipped with (it may load slower, im sorry)...:

    Ti Kan: Audi Radios

    Now this is the satnav that my car came with. The error i made, was thinking that It had everything I needed to convert from this to RNSD, including Navigation map player in boot, and GPS Arial fitted to car.

    DSCN1632.jpg DSCN1634.jpg

    And the arial and nav cd player on rood and in boot:

    DSCN1642.jpg DSCN1639.jpg

    and finally this is the control unit, underneath my hand brake:

    DSCN1637.jpg

    Now here is the installed RNS-d unit. Note the worn buttons, which frankly ruin the look. I will be changing these, but in order to fit the unit, a new air con panel is required, as the old one (pictured above) is to wide. You also loose the cuby hole when change to double din, which is annoying as i used it for many things.


    IMG_0207.jpg IMG_0208.jpg IMG_0209.jpg IMG_0210.jpg IMG_0211.jpg IMG_0212.jpg

    Im not sure how clear it is in the photo, but there are a few things wrong on this setup, and I havnt been able to figure out how to rectify it yet..so any imput would be most useful.

    First off all, all the buttons and knobs should light up when the lights on the car are turned on, but the dont. Now I do know that a few wires in the back arnt plug and play, the need to be swapped and fiddled with. I did this with the help of scotB5, but all i managed to do was to get them either always on, which would drain the battery as the would never turn off, even when lights are off, engines off and car is locked, or they are always off, which is what i have now as its the safer option.

    The other problem I have is that although its connected to what i believe is a GPS arial, (already fitted to my car), it wont find the location of my car, and it seems to be stuck on a completely different location to where the unit now is :s

    Lastly, I cant get radio stations, its all fuzzy, and is as if i do not have the arial plugged in (which i can assure you is wrong, as i have checked and triple checked that its plugged in, and not sliding out when i push the unit into the front console.

    Now if anyone needs any help with installation of this or anything, please ask, but I may be limited in what i can tell you as i got alot of info from the two guys repeatedly named above.

    Thanks for looking

    Anton
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  2. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics

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    Nice one on getting it in mate.
    It looks a lot better but its a right shame on the buttons, both the HVAC and the RNS unit :(

    You are able to swap the buttons over on the HVAC and the RNS unit. I got spare RNS buttons here (the parts turned up after I posted your unit off to you) but they the same as the B5 unit, shiny none rubber matt looking like yours.
    If you want I can swap the RNS buttons and HVAC buttons over for you.

    I would also check how many satellites you have, if you have 0, that's your issue. I think the correct GPS aerial will be in the boot.

    SOrry I can't help much more.
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  3. g60leigh
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    g60leigh Well-Known Member

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    I am suspecting that all of your problems with reception are relating to your roof mount GPS antennae.

    I would be tempted to buy one of the cheap puck type GPS aerials from eBay and plug that in to rule it out. They are only a few quid. I can get you a link if needed.
    It could also be that the fm aerial part is not compatible with the RNS-D too.
    I have no experience of the previous nav you had installed so am not sure what the components will work with.

    As for your nav unit button lights. You can either feed them from a switched live so they are on when the ignition is on. Or take a feed from one of the lights. If I remember right there is one on the lower storage area of the centre console. There is also one to the climate control unit.
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  4. S3 chj
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    S3 chj Member

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    I was thinking about doing the double din conversion my self but didn't know you had to change the heater controles to.
    #4
  5. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The cheap GPS sender works fine on mine mounted on top of the glovbox out of sight.

    The oem aerial is amplified, i'd guess you have failed to power it up during the pin swapping. I bought a PNP loom from egay to allow a drop in solution without the need for additional pins or swapping
    #5
  6. AviatorRichards3
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    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    scotb5 - cheers man......yes its a great shame about the buttons, but still, Leigh sorted my right out, so thanks to him for contacting me in the first place. I would love it if you had some spare buttons that i could swap....im more concerned about the air cone buttons then the nav unit, although nav unit could do with changing as well.

    Yes ive had a look and im definitely not receiving any satelites. It says 32 available but 0 in use.

    g60leigh - Yes please could you send me a link off of ebay or something, as ive seen many on there and do not know which is the correct type.

    would this puck ype arial also give me radio? or just nav?

    Chrises audi - Yes i thought it was just a swap over, but when studying photos carefully, you can see that the heater controls are narrower in the double din then in the single din. Its rouighly the same dimensions as the cubby hole part, but it was only some of the guys on this forum who made me aware of this. The alternative ive read about is just to trim the edges off of your existing heater control, and depending on how neat you can do it, it would have the same effect.

    Byzan pics - How can i power up my arial? :s how important is it to have the cheap puck arial thing positioned in the correct place? can it be put anywhere?
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  7. g60leigh
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    g60leigh Well-Known Member

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    Here you go Anton
    http://bit.ly/YR8LbP
    This will only sort out the GPS side.
    If you get one of these and it works you will know for sure that it is your car antennae causing your technical issues.

    Have you tried swapping the buttons on the climate control with your original ones?
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  8. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics

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    You can take the face plate off hte HVAC and the buttons just pip out.
    So you can take the better buttons off your old havc or get another one with 100% buttons and swap them over.
    I'm happy to do it for you if you post me all the bits.

    Same with the RNS unit. remove the face plate, pop the buttons out.
    I got some spares here but the colour/coating is different.

    You really need to check out what's in the back of your nav unit in the boot and move some of them cables to the front.

    Did your old unit have traffic information?
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  9. AviatorRichards3
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    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    I think ive finally figured out what is wrong with the radio....

    It seems to have nothing to do with the actual unit itself, as i tried putting a pair of pliers down the arial hole, and then holding it, using myself as the radio, and I get all the channels I like in very good quality. So i think its safe to say that its my car, as opposed to the unit.

    Now I would assume it would be the arial in my car? But the strange thing is, when ive got the normal radio unit fitted, it works, but when the RNSD is fitted, it wont....

    So ive had to make do for now, by putting some wire in it, and running it behind the glove box, and it works a hell of alot better then my current arial.

    @ g60leigh: Thank you so much for the link to that puck arial, as the nav unit now works perfectly (although i still havnt found the ideal place for it yet...and i do lose signal every now and again... but hey, it works....

    But then again, i really didnt by this unit for the nav, as my ipad, iphone, and my already built in satnav, seems to work much better, purely because it has postcode recognition, and you dont have to scroll through each letter which is most annoying...
    #9
  10. vrbob
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    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    Out of interest have you checked your heated rear screen for any breaks in the lines?

    I say this as when i retro fitted my RNSE i was having major issues with radio signal which i didnt have before with my concert 2.

    I pulled all of it apart looking for shorts or broken wires but nothing looked wrong. After alot of research i found that the 8L has 2 fm boosters in the trim around the rear screen and these utilise the heated screen element for their signal. So i got a torch and held it on the inside of the rear screen and went along each line. I found 2 lines where there were a minor break and a few places the element had worn away so i got some of the heated screen repair paint stuff touched them up and hey presto perfect radio signal :)
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  11. AviatorRichards3
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    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Vrbob:

    Okay thank you so much for that, as I seem to be experiencing the same issue. It works perfectly when ive got the normal concert II system installed, but is very intermittent with the RNSD installed. I was actually trying to find out where the signal booster/ampliefier was. So thanks for that, ill give it a try.

    What paint did you use?
    #11
  12. vrbob
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    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    Hello mate,

    To be honest i found the paint in my dads garage (he has all manner of weird and wonderful things lol) but a quick look on ebay threw this up which looks the same stuff Electro Connector Heated Rear Screen Repair Circuit paint Granville Electrocure | eBay

    I spent a few days scratching my head in regards to this weird signal issue plus i also had a few other probs getting my RNSE to function correctly. In the end i ditched the cheapo loom i got off ebay and bought one from kufatec which solved a few issues for me but still had dodgy radio signal, mine also got worse if i turned on the rear screen which made me do a tad more research. This is when i found aout about the FM boosters around the rear screen and that it also uses the rear screen element.

    Initially i couldnt see anything wrong with my rear screen and thought it was probably one of the boosters at fault. On closer inspection using a torch on the inside of the window is when i saw a few minor breaks and places it had worn thin. I painted these parts with the electrostatic paint and instantly the radio signal issue was sorted.

    Hope that helps

    Rob
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  13. s3mad_dude
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    s3mad_dude Noggies ruuuule!

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    How's the CPL training going? I did mine a few years back, so very best of luck! I'm also very tempted to upgrade my car to double din and fit the RNS-E but there is nothing wrong with my current setup so it's sort of bottom of my list!
    #13
  14. AviatorRichards3
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    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    vrbob: Right, without trying to sound completely stupid, Ive had a look at what i "think" your refering to on the rear window, and its very hard to figure out if their are any tiny cracks or not....

    do you mean the fm boosters are within the plastic side walls that go up either side of the window?

    btw thank you very much for that link buddy, if it turns out, that i have cracks in the paint, ill get that kit.

    I thought that the car may need a new arial? but then again, it works perfectly with the old concert II system installed so im very confused... :s


    s3mad_dude: Yes its going well, im about half way through the ATPL stages. Im still looking at different places to complete my CPL and MEIR....

    what stage are you at? or you flying/instructing now?

    where did you do your training?

    Well mine worked perfectly as well, but ive always had a fascination with the built in satnav look, so it was a must for me, even though the car already had some weird kind of nav built into the trip computer.
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  15. AviatorRichards3
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    AviatorRichards3 Member

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  16. vrbob
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    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    Hello again :)

    Yeah the boosters are hidden under the plastic trim around the screen. I managed to get it removed with a bit of brute force as its just clipped in but be warned clips are prone to breaking. the boosters are soldered to the rear screen and one of mine was hanging off so initially I thought this would be the issue but I re soldered it and still had the same prob.

    In regards to the breaks in the rear screen mine too didn't have anything major just a couple of spots with hairline cracks and a couple where the line was very thin (so light from my torch easily passed through it) I touched up these areas with the special paint and hey presto its been perfect ever since.

    Maybe the best way to confirm if you have the same prob is to somehow bypass the rear screen, so disconnect it and add a piece of wire or something instead and see if this improves your radio signal issue as this way it will tell you if your barking up te right tree or not.
    #16
  17. s3mad_dude
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    s3mad_dude Noggies ruuuule!

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    @AviatorRichards3: I did an integrated course in southern Spain and I now fly for a Spanish airline. Good luck with the CPL and ME-IR!
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  18. AviatorRichards3
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    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    vrbob - im still having lots of difficulites with me radio reception..its most annoying. Ive even spoken to a car audio shop and they said take a screw driver and put it where the arial goes, and then hold the screw driver as thats one way to test if your unit can get radio, so I tried this and got very good reception, but of course i cant go round holding a screw driver on it...:uhm:

    s3mad_dude - okay cool what airline. what aircraft you type rated on and fly? how many hours etc....

    it wasnt flight training europe was it?
    #18
  19. AviatorRichards3
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    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    also im having difficulty uploading pictures onto here as I want a profile picture. can anyone help as it always says upload failed....
    #19
  20. vrbob
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    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    Well if bypassing the system using a screwdriver gets you a good signal then that points to the normal system having a reception issues and sounds very much like I said before and that you have a break in the system somewhere and not getting a full range. Have you check your rear heated screen element thouroughly? and have you managed to get the trim of to check the FM boosters are plugged in properly?
    #20
  21. s3mad_dude
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    s3mad_dude Noggies ruuuule!

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    Yes it was FTE! I fly for Volotea on the Boeing 717. And of course my S3 has come with me and is blatantly the coolest car in the staff car park :p I don't see many S3s over here in France and when I do they're in dreadful condition.

    Hope the training is going well and good luck with the RNS-D install.
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  22. AviatorRichards3
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    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Okay so I have a small amount of time that I can now spend on investigating this signal problem further...

    I found this link which is sueful: Poor radio reception - Audifans.net

    Although Im not that good at undertanding wirieing diograms when it comes to cars (aircraft I seem to understand no problem :/......), I that a few more problems could be the issue here.

    1) No power getting to my amplifier

    2) amplifier is broken or has loose connections

    Now I know that not all the plugs from the concert II system are plugged inot the RNSD as the wouldnt all fit, as the plug holes themselves are odd shapes. I have already had one of the wires from a plug not in the rnsd unit, taken out and routed to my unit, in order for all the backlights to come on with my headlights. This could lead me to believe that perhaps I dont have a 12v current coming to the aerial either....but I dont know :/

    I decided to plug my concert II head unit in again today just to see if it would work on only the plugs in my RNSD unit, and frustratingly it worked perfectly, which baffles me as I cant figure out what is going on....

    VRBOB - I have tried to check everything you said, and looked at my rear screen heating element several times and I cant find a single break, but as I previously said, I only seem to have ONE fm booster on the drivers side of the window, and although there is the space for the other fm booster you talk about and even the holes drilled to screw it into, there is nothing there, and no sign it ever was there and fell of or got taken off...so I would assume it never had two of them.

    As far as bypassing this, I have tried again and put a screwdriver into the socket, and it only got mildly better and only on a local station, anything else still didnt work, so its as if no power is getting to my antenna or amplifier, but then again it works beautifully with the original unit plugged it.

    So would anyone know if these two units (Concert II & RNSD) use different band width/frequencies to get the radio going? as it works for one and not the other?
    #22

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