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APR Cat/Downpipe - Audi S3

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by AndyS3, Nov 18, 2004.

  1. AndyS3
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    AndyS3 Member

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    [Nov 18, 2004]
    #1
  2. Ads

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  3. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    And anyhow, I thought we had collectively agreed that the restirction is in the Manifold, not the DP or CATS...
    #2
  4. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    We had... the only restriction really is the manifold and turbo... downpipe/cats/exhaust will only make a real difference (MAYBE!) once other restrictions are removed.

    Rich
    #3
  5. NWMark
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    NWMark Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    I seen this part when i was at Awesome a few weeks back and its HUGE in comparison to the standard one, they also do one for the Leon (not sure if its excatly the same part or not) and it was getting put on Jims car.

    And he was expecting to get over 300bhp from his car when it was next RR, not sure whether this has actually been done and what he actually got though.

    Mark
    #4
  6. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    NWMark - It could be 18feet in diameter, but if the manifold is the most restricitve part (you can barely get your little finger into the exhast ports) then all the DP in the world is not going to help.

    This product has been dyno'd, lost power and is being shipped back to the manufacturer.
    #5
  7. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    For anyone not believing, i will post a pic of my old manifold later...

    Rich
    #6
  8. NWMark
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    NWMark Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    David, i didnt believe the claims of 25-30bhp at the time, seemed way too much for just a DP, maybe 10bhp tops. but if its been tested with no effect then i wont be buying it.

    Mark

    #7
  9. AndybS3
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    AndybS3 Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    It seems to me that all these so called tuners can slap any old fairytale sorry figure onto their products, are they governed by the trading standards i.e. could you take it back if when dynoed on an accurate R/R the figures were way off
    #8
  10. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    But Glen, its shiny! Surely that ALONE would add about 20bhp, 30lb.ft? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Damn, Rich, I had forgotten that!
    Perhaps a little buff with some Autosol will have that 20BHP up to 25?

    It appears most people buying tuning parts are like Magpies...attracted to shiny things, at which point all sense of reason goes out of the window!
    #9
  11. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    David R said:
    And anyhow, I thought we had collectively agreed that the restirction is in the Manifold, not the DP or CATS...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I believe that is the case...
    #10
  12. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    But Glen, its shiny! Surely that ALONE would add about 20bhp, 30lb.ft? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Damn, Rich, I had forgotten that!
    Perhaps a little buff with some Autosol will have that 20BHP up to 25?

    It appears most people buying tuning parts are like Magpies...attracted to shiny things, at which point all sense of reason goes out of the window!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    The fact of the matter is, no matter WHAT you do pre or post turbo/manifold, your not going to achieve anything REALLY worthwhile... A S3 in its chipped state running high boost will be near its limit... making everything else more free flowing may produce a couple of extra ponies, but nothing to wrtie home about. We've said it before many times, the only way is to ditch the manifold and turbo. Now, you never know... The K04 on a decnet manifold MIGHT produce some good results... but i doubt anyone will invest the money into having a manifold designed and cast to find out! When the price of turbo upgrades is coming down, it just wouldnt be financially viable.

    Rich
    #11
  13. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Andy bS3 said:
    It seems to me that all these so called tuners can slap any old fairytale sorry figure onto their products, are they governed by the trading standards i.e. could you take it back if when dynoed on an accurate R/R the figures were way off

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This whole situation really hoses me off!
    I think the correct term for it is "Fraud"...and in this country there appears to be no rules governing it where making outlandish power claims are concerned...

    The answer would be something like TUV approval...you don't see too many false / pie-in-the-sky claims from decent German tuners who have TUV approval for their products!

    This would prevent false claims for re-maps, exhausts, cats etc...and put paid to cheap a55, bad quaility products like bendy wheels etc which aren't up to the job.
    #12
  14. dbm
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    dbm Active Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    Or 'thier' APR chip at 270+ BHP?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    To be fair, Pure had the APR Optimax chip as his only performance upgrade IIRC, and he registered 270bhp using the VAG-COM airflow equation. Do you have an opinion on how acurate measuring bhp that way is?

    Cheers,
    Dan
    #13
  15. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    dbm said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    Or 'thier' APR chip at 270+ BHP?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    To be fair, Pure had the APR Optimax chip as his only performance upgrade IIRC, and he registered 270bhp using the VAG-COM airflow equation. Do you have an opinion on how acurate measuring bhp that way is?

    Cheers,
    Dan

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not very.... at all! We did this on an A3 1.8T... measured 150 on teh road and 170 on the dyno.
    #14
  16. StevieBogan
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    StevieBogan Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    I would really like to believe this mod is worth the cash, but after MANY long debates and proven evedence, I'm sorry, but I wont be spending over a grand on it !

    Pitty, its nice and shiney!
    #15
  17. nervus
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    nervus Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:

    It appears most people buying tuning parts are like Magpies...attracted to shiny things, at which point all sense of reason goes out of the window!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
    #16
  18. dbm
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    dbm Active Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:

    Not very.... at all! We did this on an A3 1.8T... measured 150 on teh road and 170 on the dyno.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry to be dense - what was the bhp calculated at using VAG-COM and what was the other measurement used for bhp? How confident are you of the non-VAGCOM method of calculating the bhp?

    Ta,
    Dan
    #17
  19. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    dbm said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:

    Not very.... at all! We did this on an A3 1.8T... measured 150 on teh road and 170 on the dyno.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry to be dense - what was the bhp calculated at using VAG-COM and what was the other measurement used for bhp? How confident are you of the non-VAGCOM method of calculating the bhp?

    Ta,
    Dan

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry... i maent we measured 150 on the road with VAG-COM... I cant exactly remember how we did it mind... its on the ROSS-TECH website somewhere

    Rich
    #18
  20. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    [Nov 19, 2004]
    Its called the "Butt-dyno". You have to run the car up in third gear from 1000rpm to redline and then put the clutch in and let the car slow itself down.

    Whilst doing this you log a few variables and then chuck the results into an excel spread sheet.

    You need a long straight flat road to get good values.

    Arguably it gives a very real indication of power and torque.

    See hear http://forums.audiworld.com/vag/msgs/457.phtml

    I got 149BHP out of my standard A3.
    #19
  21. s8n
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    s8n Member

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    [Nov 20, 2004]
    Yes, this is the australian downpipe that guy harding from QLD worked on. Apparently it produces NO extra power because the MAF and Injectors are just about maxed out with a exhaust/chip/intake anyway.

    It has the potential for gains if you can get it custom mapped. Ive seen the item in the flesh, its very nice but a rip off if it doesnt have a remap included along with new maf/injectors.

    Dont waste your money unless it has that..
    #20
  22. awesomeade
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    awesomeade Member

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    [Dec 2, 2004]
    ImolaS3 - APR offer a more agressive remap to be used in conjunction with this DP

    Ess Three - Yes its the APR version of the aussie design afaik and yes i'm told Jim@star lost power on his vehicle although i dont know why.. There's some Dynos (on SCN forum somewhere) JBS ran for us on our Leon with the Downpipe/Exhaust and APR map and no other mods and we got the performance we expected from it. Jimbo here also thinks the car is much more driveable with the DP.

    DavidR - Neuspeed have just finished production on an aftermarket manifold for the 1.8T, we havent seen a 225 version yet but it is planned.

    Ess Three - Or 'thier' APR chip at 270+ BHP? - Not sure where this figure is shown, we expect 265BHP with the APR map
    #21
  23. NWMark
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    NWMark Member

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    [Dec 2, 2004]
    ade,

    what is the expected output with the DP and the more agressive APR map?

    Thanks

    Mark
    #22
  24. StevieBogan
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    StevieBogan Member

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    [Dec 2, 2004]
    Yes, what is the 'claimed' end result?

    I'd imagine by the time you have pruchased the D/P, fitted it and had the car remapped again (for people who are already chipped) you must be looking at the guts of £1800?!

    If you were going from 210/225 to around 290 this would be worth it. BUT will it?

    Stevie
    #23
  25. pure
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    pure Member

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    [Dec 2, 2004]
    Ade, you can use my car as a test candidate if you like for a discount, get some proper figures and post on here. If the gains are noticable, people will come flocking /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    I do have to say £1000 is a lot of money, your prob looking at half a days labour for the fiting and another remap (so prob closer to £1500-£1800). For that kind of money, your half way to a bigger turbo and injectors etc.

    I can think of lots of other mods that would make the car more driveable. Brakes / remap / chassis / tyres / suspension etc.
    #24
  26. awesomeade
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    awesomeade Member

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    [Dec 3, 2004]
    Fitting on it is £140+vat, the more agressive remap is free if you already have an APR remap.

    We need to re-run the dyno as we got 5BHP extra but we're sure we can get more out of it, we did get 30ft lb torque extra. See honest figures /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Its currently being transferred to our TT and we will re-run the dyno.

    We're not saying it the best power for money mod, we're just saying it is the best downpipe/cat we've come across. If want power cheaper theres a lot of other avenues to take, this product is aimed at those who have everything else already and wants that bit extra.
    #25
  27. pure
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    pure Member

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    [Dec 3, 2004]
    Let us know how it goes matey.
    #26
  28. StevieBogan
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    StevieBogan Member

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    [Dec 3, 2004]
    I like the idea of the free remap to run it. Has certainly swung me. Just need to here some positive feed back now!

    Stevie
    #27
  29. Banwell
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    Banwell previously LeeS3

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    [Sep 25, 2005]
    check the tt forums as they seem to be fitting it now... Not that I've been looking..
    #28

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