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AP Brake kit - B5 S4 - POSSIBLE GROUP PURCHASE

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by AndyC, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 9, 2011]
    Hey Guys

    thinking of developing a decent brake kit for under £1000...

    345mm Discs
    AP calipers
    Adaptor Brakets
    hopefully fit under std 17" wheels.

    I will get it done it there are about 5 people who would like to join in.....

    anyone interested.?

    Andy
    #1
  2. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 9, 2011]
    TBH for that money i'd be looking at using Porsche Cayenne calipers and either the 345mm merc disks or theres a yank company (JHM) that makes a two piece rotor for the same caliper.

    B7 RS4 brakes are around the same money too.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
    #2
  3. phoenixv6quattro
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    phoenixv6quattro staylowmovefast

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    [Jan 9, 2011]
    He did say under a £1000. Could come in considerably lower! Besides AP are the best in the bizz. Kev, if you reply, please for the love of god don't have a baby or go all techy articaly on your reply. XXX
    #3
  4. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 9, 2011]
    The Porsche calipers (6 piston brembos) are about 400quid for a pair, and bolt streight up to the S4 uprights.

    Then you can choose whether you want to use the cheap option of the merc disks or go for JHM two piece items.
    #4
  5. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 9, 2011]
    its simply an idea.

    I have been trying to get a decent priced upgrade, I cant find anything in the breakers yards etc etc from a newer car.....

    this would be using the B6 S4 discs which are very inexpensive and pad choice would be massive. So its not just initial price its about ongoing.....
    #5
  6. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 9, 2011]
    AP are epic epic brakes.
    #6
  7. phoenixv6quattro
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    phoenixv6quattro staylowmovefast

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    If there good enough for F1/RALLY/TOURING there good enough for anyone or anything with 2 or 4 wheels. Would prefer these over Brembos, even if it meant a couple of ton over.
    #7
  8. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    There are two sides to every coin though.

    Most "race" calipers dont have any dust seals, so after a couple of years of road driving they end up knackered and need rebuilt. This isnt an issue in the race world, the calipers are probably overhauled after every race and fully cleaned etc, but that doesnt happen on a road car, and they dont see manky salt covered roads either.

    What would perhaps be a more viable option, would be improving the options available for the already used calipers, IE a cheaper disk setup for the Cayenne Brembos, or brackets to allow the 996GT3 4 pots to sit round the B6 S4 disks mentioned earlier.

    That way theres more choice, and i can choose how expensive i want to make the kit. I could buy some used porsche calipers, a set of solid S4 disks and the adaptor brackets if i wanted the budget option, or i could buy some fully reconditioned or new calipers, some nice 2 piece floating disks and the adaptor brackets if i wanted to splash out etc.

    Personally, if i was looking at a big brake kit, i'd be looking at basing it around either the B6 S4 disks Andy orginally mentioned, or the two piece disks from the VW Pheaton (although these need a bit of messing around to fit on their original bells)
    #8
  9. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    even with a group buy I would be surprised if you can get AP kit for that little.
    #9
  10. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    A thousand quid is a lot of money...i bought my ATE power kit(4 pot calipers, 2 piece discs, brackets and bolts) for 300 quid brand new on ebay ! It was only 10 minutes away from me. I had to buy brake lines as they were missing from the kit and i just bought a new set of pads. Next i will price a set of rotors.
    #10
  11. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    yes £1000 is alot of money...

    The AP calipers I was looking at would have dust seals.

    Suggestions are very welcome.....

    IT CAN be done for less than £1000, already priced it up with the designers and suppliers.
    #11
  12. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    Its also the sort of money that buys you a set of 8 piston brembos from a B7 RS4 that bolt streight up with 365mm disks giving a complete OEM solution...
    #12
  13. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    yea, except future discs are expensive
    #13
  14. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    Pheaton disks are about £150 each, not too bad i didnt think?
    #14
  15. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    B6 S4 discs are about £70 for the pair!!! ;-)
    #15
  16. Talkwrench
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    Talkwrench Hoonigan

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    B7 RS4 calipers & those Porsche Cayenne calipers really are heavy and you will feel that extra mass, I considered both of those calipers for mine but once I had them in my hand and realised just how heavy they are I looked else where. Out of interest AndyC what are the piston sizes in those AP's?
    #16
  17. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2011]
    not got that far yet.... would be matched to the M/C though
    #17
  18. phoenixv6quattro
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    phoenixv6quattro staylowmovefast

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    [Jan 11, 2011]
    And lets not forget you would need much larger wheels to accomodate 8 pistons! Now that would kick it up to well over a grand all in not forgetting the discs!
    #18
  19. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 11, 2011]
    The idea is to make a GOOD performing kit and then keep ongoing servicing costs down...

    I wouldnt be happy paying out initially then having to pay out another £300 for discs in 12 months.... (or whatever)
    #19
  20. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 11, 2011]
    The Merc disks folk use with the cayenne calipers are probably similar money to the S4 ones.

    £300 for bells and rotors rather than solid disks seems a fair price to me? If you could make a 345mm bell and rotor replica of the B6 S4 disk for sensible money that would probably be a good buy. 2 piece disks handle a thrashing a LOT better than solid ones do.

    Weight is a fair shout, but then the stock S4 calipers are bloody huge cast iron things anyway, and when going up to a 345-360mm disk your always going to end up with a weight increase. You need a physically larger caliper to fit round the disk and that means more metal. The B7 RS4 setup comes with bells and rotors as standard however, which will save some weight over a traditional solid disk.

    I guess part of the issue is that everyones budget and requirements are slightly different, and where everyone draws the line ends up in different places.

    Perhaps if you posted some prices, we'd have a better idea of the cost:benefit ratio of the proposed kit?
    #20
  21. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 11, 2011]
    I got RS7 B7 8pots for just over £800 discs and calipers. have been running them for probably 15k miles without any significant wear

    but they weigh more than the car and I totally agree, whilst the braking is phenomenal, proper retina wrenching stuff, they alter the feel of the car's handling significantly.
    When I ran coilovers, PS2's on 18"s with stock brakes the handling was at its best...I just couldnt stop in a hurry.
    Now I have good handling, much better than stock but I do miss that lighter feeling.

    out of interest what are the specs of the AP's? four pot Aluminium one piece calipers? If it is under a grand I would be interested, I could get that back flogging my 8 pots with the SS lines I have.
    #21
  22. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 11, 2011]
    JCB: why not fit some B6 alloy uprights?
    #22
  23. Talkwrench
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    Talkwrench Hoonigan

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    [Jan 11, 2011]
    Uprights are not rotational mass, heavy calipers & rotors are hard to offset. Those B7 two piece disks are not that light either as far as two piece disks go. Its a shame the B5 RS4 discs are so expensive because they are very very light as they have a fixed alloy centre section. ECS tuning do a B6 S4 two piece disc and these are very light, I have them on the front of my B5 but there also quite expensive. Hopefully one day carbon ceramic discs will become much cheaper as im told the weight saving makes a monumental difference in acceleration & handling, I was also told you will never wear them out, who knows how true that is.
    #23
  24. electricracer
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    electricracer Member

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    [Jan 12, 2011]
    i dont wish to rain on your parade but ap already do a brake kit for the s4 and it is nowhere near that cheap no prices on the website but have a look at one stockist AP Racing Kit - AUDI S4 Quattro Front 1998- 6 pot 330 mm disc 7.5x17 inch wheel

    however i can vouch for how good these are, i bought a set and was going to sell ( AudiSRS.com :: b5 ap 6 pot 330mm full brake kit ) but as no interest i fitted them, 6 pots, they are fantastic car stops so hard now, loads of pedal feel, very progressive, once bedded hard stops make seat belt hurt!
    #24
  25. phoenixv6quattro
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    phoenixv6quattro staylowmovefast

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    Mate, if you can get a kit together for under a grand then fair play!
    #25
  26. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 14, 2011]
    ha, on my list of things to do with this bloody car lowering the unsprung mass is at the bottom.
    sort suspension - check
    sort brakes - check
    sort fuelling - check
    sort cooling - check
    build a forged block with tubular vband mani and biggish turbo for 400bhp fun - check
    find time to fit the b@stard - fail........
    #26
  27. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 14, 2011]

    The disks may be rotational mass but the calipers arent, they're bolted to the upright, so saving weight on the upright will have the same effect as saving weight on the caliper. I'll defo be going alloy at some point, especially if your going to change to S4 uprights anyway.
    #27
  28. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 15, 2011]
    Your missing the point

    using std discs (of some size), less expensive calipers etc etc

    keeps the overall purchase cost down and the long term costs down and has less development time involved as well....

    its simply looking at options rather than going "hi there is £1500 +++ thank you"...
    #28
  29. electricracer
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    electricracer Member

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    [Jan 16, 2011]
    your right i did miss the point sorry. i thought because you mentioned ap calipers you would be using everything from ap,

    which calipers would you be using? as the ap kit for the s4 has the 6 pot calipers (expensive new), if you were trying to keep the prices down would you be going for smaller calipers ie4 pots, if so would they have enough piston area to give enough braking. as aragorn said porsche brembo 6 pots are about 400 and if bolt on no need for caliper brackets like the ones in the ap kit on mine so no cost for brackets



    #29
  30. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 16, 2011]
    cheers :)

    looking at an AP 4Pot, the swept area will be fine...

    its mainly giving a light caliper, spreading the pressure over 4 pots, not two and a two sliders.

    MASSIVE pad choice (this is the main thing TBH)

    larger (maybe) disc...


    Honestly I am looking at other options as well for cost....
    #30

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