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Anyone Shark Stg 3 here? Thoughts?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by NME, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. NME
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    NME Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Hi,

    Heading towards Shark stg 3 on my MY11 S3 SB, (or 2+ if you compare other tuners descriptions), and I was wondering what people think?

    Did you go to Shark HQ to get it set up?

    Typical BHP and Torque figures? Anyone with this - but with or without Intercooler upgrade?

    Cheers!
    #1
  2. mjr901
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    mjr901 Parts Manager - (Main Dealer)

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    I haven't seen anyone on here with Shark at 2+ yet. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

    Im only a fuel pump away now, So far so good.
    #2
  3. NME
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    NME Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Yeah, I'm the same (after this Saturday anyway), all I'll need is the pump. Going for the Loba I reckon, then eventually the Loba clutch.

    Hows your clutch holding out? And the Forge intercooler - I was reading about you offering yours up for the facelift changes.
    #3
  4. mjr901
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    mjr901 Parts Manager - (Main Dealer)

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    I can't express how good Forge was. Intercooler gave me gains of 22bhp.

    They had the car for a week and a half. Dyno'd etc. new re-circ done for it.

    They even cleaned it inside and out. (was pretty mint when I gave it them, but was a nice touch)

    As for my clutch, I'm S-Tronic. Torque limiter is still on. So clutch should be fine.

    Happy with the power at the moment, have other things to spend my money on at the second.

    But the time will come, Gearbox map, Loba pump, and then 2+(3). Best part of 1k there!

    Cant complain though, Forges work was completely out of their pocket. So I'm up in that respect.
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  5. NME
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    NME Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Sounds good!

    Who applied the map and set up the car when the map was applied?
    #5
  6. mjr901
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    mjr901 Parts Manager - (Main Dealer)

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    well originally N8 came to me, but early shark maps had a hesitation issue.

    So for my latest map I went to Shark HQ.
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  7. NME
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    NME Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Yeah, I was thinking that a trip to HQ would be best after so much change to the setup, and I would feel better knowing it had been done with their supervision.

    Not to mention, it would be useful to have the BHP figures from the RR!
    #7
  8. Scoobaru
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    Scoobaru New Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    Did some searching but not really got to the bottom of the hesitation thing. My car was perfect as standard but now hesitates around 2500-3000rpm under acceleration after a Shark stage 1 remap. Always when its cold, rarely when warmed up. Seems like opinion is divided on coil pack/injectors/plugs. BTW I have never seen a warning light. When you say 'early' when did they sort it out ?

    Also considering a Shark stage 2 or 3 after I get it sorted out.
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  9. mjr901
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    mjr901 Parts Manager - (Main Dealer)

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    Hesitation issues have long gone, any recent maps will be fully up to date. (only applicable to DSG due to torque limiting)

    Should always let the car warm up first before gunning it anyhow.

    Modifying a car will ultimately point out any weaknesses in it, it's worth having a word with Ben at Shark and run some VCDS logs to clearly point out where the fault lies, whether it's indeed a plug, a coil or even a slight tinker with the fuel/timing on the map as no 2 cars will behave the same.

    RS4 fuel valve may also help cure any mid range dip in power and ofcourse fuel pump and better breathing apparatus...

    First things first though, log it.
    #9
  10. Dave-S3
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    Dave-S3 Active Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    What are the expected gains with the HP pump, almost 400?

    Im hopefully going to do Shark stage 3 when i get the money together, im also on S-tronic so no clutch issues to worry about.

    Was going to do:
    Miltek Non res turbo back
    CAI - unsure which yet
    Loba HP Fuel pump
    + Map

    Hadnt thought about the intercooler however i will have a look at the costs.. especially if it gives a nice increase over the stock! Whats the advantage of having the forge DV?

    Hadnt thought about the intercooler
    #10
  11. mjr901
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    mjr901 Parts Manager - (Main Dealer)

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    No not 400bhp, K04 turbo is at its absolute max at around 370bhp.

    Intercooler is a good upgrade, keeps temps lower and therefore more power for longer.

    I havent done my pump yet, I'll be going Loba or APR. The gains with the upgraded pump will usually around 25-30bhp.

    DSG map is a must, torque is limited without it and it lacks the in the 'back of the seat action' a little.

    But nevertheless your shifting pretty fast.

    Forge DV is more of a 'bling' thing, so unless its offered to you on a plate, I'd leave the standard setup in there, but make sure you have a Revision D version as they are the best to use and tend not to leak air.

    + to be honest, give Rick@Unicorn a buzz, I wish I'd chosen the custom mapping route initially, he'll be mapping my gearbox soon too and he has lots of good reviews and is a nice chap.

    Aftersales of Shark, replying to emails etc pretty much a non existent, but the product itself, fine. so bare that in mind.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
    #11
  12. Dave-S3
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    Dave-S3 Active Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    Fair enough, i hadnt thought of a custom map, is that where it would be done on a RR? Cant get onto Ricks site at the moment, but im not far from him anyway.

    Im leaning towards stage 1 shark with a couple of other bits, cat back and CAI to start. However when it comes to tuning is it best to get it done at somewhere with a RR or is plug and play just as good when its a "known to work" map? If you catch my drift? I can get my car mapped at my local tuner round the corner, but he doesnt have a RR.
    #12
  13. JJ.Foulds
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    JJ.Foulds Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    Im heading to rick on sat!

    Im sure he told me it will be dyno'd before and after, and road tested to make sure im happy with it.

    I will be reviewing and posting the results afterwards! :D
    #13
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  14. mjr901
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    mjr901 Parts Manager - (Main Dealer)

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    9/10 you'll get a generic map uploaded to your vehicle. Which might work great, but every car is a little different and there is always fine tuning that could be done which will give you refinement, and to be fair peace of mind that you know its been set up properly.

    I have a generic map, but after being on here a little while and being part of the game, 100% go custom mapping, and if Rick is close, its a no brainer.

    Even without a rolling road, the maps are best set up in the "real world", on the road, logging, and doing power runs.
    #14
  15. Dean_T
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    Dean_T Active Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    I havent found this on Revo 2+, I had a map on initially that had some limiting problems but the latest map I have makes it a night and day difference between stage 1 and 2+ :)

    I dont have a DSG map... yet
    #15
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  16. mjr901
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    mjr901 Parts Manager - (Main Dealer)

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    You could be stuck on like 280-300lbf/ft. I am, but my map is generic, and i certainly didnt get the feeling i was 'being looked after' so I'm sure my parameters weren't delved into.

    DSG is safe to 440 lbf/ft, and you should be producing at 2+ in excess of 350lbf/ft+.

    You may not be affected, as some tuners raise upper torque limits and simply fool the DSG gearbox without touching the Gearbox ECU.

    Still, I think a DSG map is a good thing, with faster gear changes, higher launch control, full manual mode etc.
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  17. prt57
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    prt57 Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
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  18. Dave-S3
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    Dave-S3 Active Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    I thought the torque limiter on the DSG box was 500NM? Ive been told that from the shark maps include the patch for DSG software.. unsure on any others though. Id be interested to see the write up of the Unicorn map though, are you going for a stage 1 type map? Is your car standard?
    #18
  19. mjr901
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    mjr901 Parts Manager - (Main Dealer)

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    Well put it this way, I have this so called "revised" map from Shark and mine made nearly made 290lb/ft of torque but 337bhp.

    (on 2 occasions on a 4wd dyno)

    The "DSG patch" for me, only cured a pause after each gear change.

    Hence DSG map needed in my eyes.

    However, other tuners vary! APR, Revo etc all have produced figures above mine, so I think it may just need some fine tuning.

    See my signature for my car spec :) I'm going to go to Rick for the DSG map, should unleash her a little more.

    May even go over to his ECU software at the same time, still undecided.

    As for the limiter and figures in that respect, my mind is now pickled.

    All i know now is that its safe up to 440lb/ft (600nm) and if its not mapped properly its gonna have **** torque figures unless coupled with a DSG map.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
    #19
  20. Dave-S3
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    Dave-S3 Active Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    Hmmm, well this is straight from the Revo site..

    [TABLE="width: 432, align: left"]
    [TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"] [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    Power (bhp)
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    Power (kW)
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    Torque (lbft)
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    Torque (Nm)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Stock OE[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    260​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    194​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    258​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    350​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Stage 1[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    305​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    227​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    312​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    423​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Stage 2[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    335​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    250​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    310​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    420​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Stage 2+[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    367​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    274​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    353​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"]
    479​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    # Dyno tolerance +/- 5%





    Stage 2 suggests you are bang on with HP but down 20lb/ft of torque... as their website suggests 5% Dyno tolerance would make this appear to be a pretty much correct reading.

    For me though the DSG map would be worth having, if you have everything else, apart from it maybe giving you the extra bit of torque you need it also has its other advantages to give the car its "true potential"

    However with you only being at the equivalent of Stage 2 (from any of the big name tuners) i have heard a lot of comments that stage 2 causes mid range torque issues (someone correct me if i am wrong) and that the HPFP will cure this. Id get the HPFP in first get it rolling roaded then do the gearbox map or both at the same time, but if it was me and i could only spend the money on one thing, it would be the HPFP, i think you would see the torque issue disappear!

    Sorry if ive repeated anything you already know im not trying to be a know it all, just gathering info for myself as i am planning to go to stage 3 on my 2009 S3 S-tronic :)
    #20
  21. Dean_T
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    Dean_T Active Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    Yeah my map was stuck at 300lb/ft but after a trip to Revo HQ they uploaded a revised map which got rid of that cap.

    I don't have any dyno proof but the difference is like night and day from driving it.

    The original map felt more like stage 1+ but the revised one is an animal!
    #21
  22. Dave-S3
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    Dave-S3 Active Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    Urgh all this talk of having to go Revo/Shark HQ's to get the very best from the DSG cars after mapping is making me concerned :/ How long ago was this Dean? Im not too fussed by the Revo maps, i know theyre the top dog but at £600 a map, the shark one is quite alot cheaper at £400 plus i have heard very good things about them at the moment?
    #22
  23. Revo Steve-W
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    Revo Steve-W Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2013]

    Give Martin a call at Unit 20, he'll be able to Revo and set your DSG S3 up for you Dave. There will be no need to visit HQ.

    Unit 20,
    Coalbrookdale Road,
    Clayhill Ind Est,
    Neston,

    Cheshire,
    CH64 3UG

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 0151 33 66 888[/FONT]

    #23
  24. Dave-S3
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    Dave-S3 Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2013]
    Thanks Steve, Martin is a good friend of mine :)
    #24
  25. Revo Steve-W
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    Revo Steve-W Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2013]
    Well then he's your man & it's a no brainier Dave... Go Play!!!
    #25
  26. Dave-S3
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    Dave-S3 Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2013]
    How much is it go to between stages on Revo? I am considering it but the extra £200 is alot for a similar product, you guys got any offers on the horizon for 2014?
    #26
  27. Revo Steve-W
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    Revo Steve-W Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2013]
    Stage upgrades are very reasonable once initial software is purchased -

    Stage 1 to 2 is £50
    Stage 2 to 2+ £100

    As for offers.... I couldn't possibly comment at this time, but Christmas is coming :shutup2:
    #27
  28. Dave-S3
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    Dave-S3 Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2013]
    Not looking to upgrade until next year but we will see what Santa might be able to bring, ill keep my eye out ;)
    #28
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  29. DeckedS3
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    DeckedS3 Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2013]
    What turbo have you got?
    #29
  30. W8 Performance
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    W8 Performance Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Unit 20 have just become a Shark Performance dealer too.
    #30
  31. Dave-S3
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    Dave-S3 Active Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Hence the Dilemma! haha
    #31
  32. W8 Performance
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    W8 Performance Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Try and get a drive in one of each or see some dyno graphs?
    #32
  33. Dave-S3
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    Dave-S3 Active Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    Seen a graph for Revo but not Shark..
    #33
  34. mjr901
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    mjr901 Parts Manager - (Main Dealer)

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    Heres my Shark Stage 2 map dyno graph before intake upgrade....

    Torque limited unfortunately but that'll soon change when I have some time!

    Nice and smooooooth!

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2014
    #34
  35. Scoobaru
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    Scoobaru New Member

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    [Nov 5, 2013]
    That graph does look very smooth from 3000-7000, holding 1.2 bar very accurately. However when it first comes on boost at 2250rpm it overboosts to 1.3bar then overcompensates down to 1.15bar before evening out. If it was my car I would prefer to see a smoother transition to the target 1.2bar.


    Considering the stage 3 will have a higher target boost level (anyone know exactly?), I would be worried if it went beyond it on stock internals.
    #35
  36. RedDejavu
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    RedDejavu Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 5, 2013]
    my stage 2+ overboosts to 1,7 then holds 1,4 and 1.3 red line
    #36
  37. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Nov 5, 2013]
    On a stock K04 turbo,you won't need to worry about engine internals.

    A K04 is pretty much done by around 360-370bhp,and maybe 360-380lbs,whereas the engine even on stock parts,will comfortably deal with up to 440lbs reliably,which will take you into the sort of levels that APR's GTX2867 kit provides.
    #37

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