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Anyone had the big Turbo upgrade (S3/TT)

Discussion in 'Tuning' started by AL_B, Jul 30, 2004.

  1. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Jul 30, 2004]
    Hi,

    Been thinking about my next car...would love either an S4 (v8) or RS3 (if it gets built). BUT...the alternative would be to give my S3 a new lease of life, namely a big turbo upgrade, and a fresh set of alloys.

    As far as I am aware, there are two choices...

    1) MTM £7000 +VAT
    2) Jabba £4600 inc VAT and fitting

    Does anyone have any experience of one of the above, either on the S3 or TT?

    What does the car drive like?
    Is there a lot of lag?
    What was the quality of workmanship like?

    Cheers

    AL
    #1
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  3. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Jul 30, 2004]
    Alan, Mr Sheppard and myself spend some time speaking to the Jabba guy (who's name escapes me) and GTI international this year. This guy really knows his stuff and the product seems a very effective package. There were a few Golf's there (I think GolfTTish) with the Jabba IHI upgrade and they certainly put the times in on the 1/4 mile. Reservations were that the examples on display were not finished aesthetically to the highest standard and our resident modifier and perfectionist thought that some of the pipework could be better routed, but as a cost vs performance proposition it looks pretty good.

    I guess you would need to budget for a FMIC, suspension and brake mods too for the complete package /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    #2
  4. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Jul 30, 2004]
    Thanks Dave.

    Yeah, wheels, suspension and brakes would be needed too. And as you say, the stock intercoolers might not be enough to keep temps down.

    AL
    #3
  5. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Jul 30, 2004]
    I would certainly reccommend a chat with the folks at Jabba. They could troubleshoot some power issues at the same time. APR has / had a big turbo kit in development, but I have fallen behind about where they are up to with it...
    #4
  6. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Jul 30, 2004]
    Hi guys,

    I have been keeping my eye on the same topic for a bit also and have found the APR kit to 'always be in development'. Is there not a large waiting list for Jabba kit too?

    Cheers,
    #5
  7. Banwell
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    Banwell previously LeeS3

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    [Jul 30, 2004]
    If your looking for reliability then QST mtm upgrade is the best route. On this point, I don't think mtm do intercooler upgrade, so maybe its not neccessary VST, didn't seem to be running one anyways.
    #6
  8. GolfTTish
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    GolfTTish Member

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    [Aug 2, 2004]
    I've not been in a big turbo s3 yet, but have driven a couple of IHI'd jabba cars, and will have ab IHI on mine within a few weeks.

    There was an IHI'd golf at inters, but not mine. He ran a 13.9. My car was on the stand next door, and looks very similar.

    The IHI kit from jabba is reasonably well developed, and has been reliability tested by a nutter in a yellow ibeza for over 25Kmiles (mostly on the track). He just broke his first turbo after many miles of higher than recommended boost. There's another couple on golfs that have done quite a few miles now without problems. one was installed at 100K miles and is still going strong at 120K.

    The MTM kit has probably more installations than any other big turbo kit on RHD cars. Effective, reliable as far as I know, but expensive.

    No one else has designed a manifold for RHD cars. Our servo and master cylinders sit the opposite side to those on a LHD car, and so the turbo needs to be offset the other way on the manifold.

    Jabba have a long waiting list, but if you do the same as me, you can buy the bits, have them installed by anyone you chose, and have it mapped by anyone you chose. They're not keen on warranting the turbo if anyone else maps it but that shouldn't be a big worry.

    There have been lots of IHI's installed on 1.8T's for conversions on earlier (pre MKIV) golfs.

    But to be honest, I wouldn't waste my money on doing it to an S3. You can get 300bhp by installing a hybrid K04 with different compressor wheels. This will cost you a grand, and will be 90% of a big turbo for a lot less money.

    Unfortunately 300hp in an s3 still doesn't make it a fast car. Ditch some weight, it's a lot cheaper. At santa pod recently I was weeing on big turbo golfs (IHI'd) that had 50-80hp more than me by ditching seats, spare wheel etc (13.8@102). I often run it like that on the road anyway.



    Anyway AlB. Are you chipped yet?

    I'll be up your neck of the woods in a few weeks for beers, and if the cars finished, you're more than welcome to try it.
    #7
  9. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 3, 2004]
    I shall be installing my IHI kit hopefully in the next week or 2 so will report back when its finished /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif
    #8
  10. imported_DREDDZ
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    imported_DREDDZ Guest

    [Aug 4, 2004]
    The S3 with the Jabba kit on is mine.

    The car in my opinion has been transformed, AMD have done a stunning job.

    Don't wait for Audi to produce an RS3. have one today !!







    #9
  11. imported_LIAMH
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    imported_LIAMH Guest

    [Aug 4, 2004]
    Its Jabba's Kit Supplied to AMD
    Its the down pipe that is the tricky bit from one 1.8T to another

    They bought a few kits when they couldn't get the ATP/garrett based kit to work reliably. They now have a have car done based on the sportec kit using the same Turbo as the MTM

    Aparently that comes in with a bit of a bang where the IHI kit is smooth and progressive
    #10
  12. imported_DREDDZ
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    imported_DREDDZ Guest

    [Aug 5, 2004]
    The figures are 331bhp, 336ft/lb ( with > 300ft/lb between 3500 and 5500 rpm !!)

    As LiamH says the down pipe is quite a bit of work, my understanding is that they took a brand new down pipe cut and shut it and install a high flow cat.

    As far as time and hitches go. Time was about a month ( but I was having a new engine fitted as well ). Hitches none - that's why you use AMD
    #11
  13. imported_LIAMH
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    imported_LIAMH Guest

    [Aug 5, 2004]
    good figs look about right for the smaller port head - but your torque is a bit higher than mine

    Some credit due to Jabba for supplying a reliable bit of kit
    its been on my car for a year without any problems
    #12
  14. imported_DREDDZ
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    imported_DREDDZ Guest

    [Aug 5, 2004]
    Liam

    Glad to hear it's been running on your car for a year !!

    'smaller port head' ?? does the golf engine then have bigger inlet/exhaust ports.

    Agree about Jabba as well - their mainfold design / turbo choice seem very well matched.

    #13
  15. DuncS3
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    DuncS3 Member

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    [Aug 5, 2004]
    There was a blue golf at Castle Coombe last week which is meant to run 391 bhp - how come its a lot more than the 330 S3?

    Be interested to hear lots more about your S3 conversion Dave. Was your car chipped before? (I'm asking that to find out if it is a big change on the old butt dyno in comparison to a chipped car)

    Dunc
    #14
  16. imported_LIAMH
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    imported_LIAMH Guest

    [Aug 5, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    DuncS3 said:
    There was a blue golf at Castle Coombe last week which is meant to run 391 bhp - how come its a lot more than the 330 S3?

    Be interested to hear lots more about your S3 conversion Dave. Was your car chipped before? (I'm asking that to find out if it is a big change on the old butt dyno in comparison to a chipped car)

    Dunc

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Beause its been converted to a 1.9 litre has the larger port AGU head (like mine)
    it also has upgraded internals with a lowered compression ratio running more boost and i think the turbo is slightly bigger as well and its rev limiter is raised to over 8000 rpm and a 6 speed box

    used to be one of Jabba's demo cars
    #15
  17. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 10, 2004]
    Im in the process of 'big turboing' my A3 (AGU 1.8T)...Liam, what power figures did you get?

    ich
    #16
  18. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    LIAMH said:
    best i've had is 374 bhp with the water injection allowing it to run a little more boost - expect from 330-365 with a front mounted intercooler

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Liam, was your golf featured in PVW on a thrash? If not then there was a Liam with an IHI that was struggling with traction control...which was a real bumer for the report.
    #17
  19. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 14, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    LIAMH said:
    best i've had is 374 bhp with the water injection allowing it to run a little more boost - expect from 330-365 with a front mounted intercooler

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Inpressive Liam... Is that with a otherwise standard engine?

    Rich
    #18
  20. dbm
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    dbm Active Member

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    [Aug 16, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    LIAMH said:
    It was also before i got a limited slip diff and the water injection

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hi, we've chatted about the water injection in a different thread, but how does this system affect the drivability of the car? Does it now have a more 'peaky' power delivery with a stronger spike of power? Or is the power now delivered over a wider rev band?

    Cheers,
    Dan
    #19
  21. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Aug 16, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    LIAMH said:
    :)
    Yeh that was me, i only had 2 goes so i didn't get a chance to play with different settings it wasn't dry either which didn't help, payed a visited Racelogic and found out that it wasn't configured properly so it was cutting in too agressively, much better now
    if you look in the back of pvw and take my crappy 0-60 from my 0-100 you get an idea of how quick it is once rolling, faster than an rs4 with 450bhp that was at another PVW day

    It was also before i got a limited slip diff and the water injection

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Good to have you onboard.

    Reading that PVW article had my mind rushing at warp speed thinking what mods should I do next and when should I get the IHI upgrade. A real shame it was wet and the traction control was off /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #20
  22. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Aug 19, 2004]
    Only just been able to reply to this thread due to password/account problems.


    [ QUOTE ]
    GolfTTish said:
    But to be honest, I wouldn't waste my money on doing it to an S3. You can get 300bhp by installing a hybrid K04 with different compressor wheels. This will cost you a grand, and will be 90% of a big turbo for a lot less money.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thats an interesting idea. Got any more info?

    [ QUOTE ]
    GolfTTish said:
    Unfortunately 300hp in an s3 still doesn't make it a fast car. Ditch some weight, it's a lot cheaper. At santa pod recently I was weeing on big turbo golfs (IHI'd) that had 50-80hp more than me by ditching seats, spare wheel etc (13.8@102). I often run it like that on the road anyway.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Aren't we talking 310/330 MTM, and 350-ish Jabba? The torque must be huge too, so surely that will make it a fast car, in anybody's book.

    Come on John, lets be realistic, who in there right mind is going to ditch the interior of an S3! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Even on a temporary basis.

    Its swings are roundabouts with regards to weight. As we, the weight is caused by the 4wd drive system and chunky build quality bits - two things I will always give preference to. I just love 4wd for quick starts and wet weather.

    [ QUOTE ]
    GolfTTish said:
    Anyway AlB. Are you chipped yet?


    [/ QUOTE ]
    No I'm not yet. I've still not managed to sort out the possible lack of performance, as shown at the AmD rolling road day. Its p'ing me off actually, I really need to get the car on some rollers again.

    [ QUOTE ]
    GolfTTish said:
    I'll be up your neck of the woods in a few weeks for beers, and if the cars finished, you're more than welcome to try it.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Let me know nearer the time, and I just might take you up on your offer! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    AL
    #21
  23. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Aug 19, 2004]
    Have to say Al, I agree. One of the main reasons I bought the S3 was because the interior was a nice place to be. If that wasn't the case I'd be in a JAP.

    I suggested this idea about the Hybrid a while back and didn't get any decent feed back, mainly because the opinion was its the down pipes that are causing the std K04 to be inefficiant at higher RPM due to high levels of head as the gases down flow out fast enough.

    Thoughts?
    #22
  24. gc48067
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    gc48067 Member

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    [Aug 19, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ScotSTHREE said:
    Have to say Al, I agree. One of the main reasons I bought the S3 was because the interior was a nice place to be. If that wasn't the case I'd be in a JAP.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Couldn't agree more - had a Subaru for a while till I got fed up with the hand knitted interior...it is really hard to find a car that has performance, looks and style (not in a Max Power sense).

    Would live to know more about Hybrid Turbos - how do they make such a difference given that the mechanics are basically the same, persumably just different compressor configurations?
    #23
  25. imported_LIAMH
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    imported_LIAMH Guest

    [Aug 20, 2004]
    "ut to be honest, I wouldn't waste my money on doing it to an S3. You can get 300bhp by installing a hybrid K04 with different compressor wheels. This will cost you a grand, and will be 90% of a big turbo for a lot less money"

    May be true....i have my doubts about that

    but part of the benefit of the big Turbo conversion which you wouldn't have thought about until you have done it is the overall feeling of driving a car that has plenty in reserve
    instead of making fast progess at full throtle you only use 1/2 or 3/4 - its much more relaxed
    #24
  26. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Aug 20, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    LIAMH said:
    but part of the benefit of the big Turbo conversion which you wouldn't have thought about until you have done it is the overall feeling of driving a car that has plenty in reserve
    instead of making fast progess at full throtle you only use 1/2 or 3/4 - its much more relaxed

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I never considered that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    Is there a lot more lag though?

    I mean, the difference between my GTi Anni and the S3 is very noticable. I'd say roughly 500 rpm difference on the rev counter. So is there a similar difference again between a big Turbo conversion and the standard S3?

    Cheers

    AL
    #25
  27. DuncS3
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    DuncS3 Member

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    [Aug 20, 2004]
    The torque figures are around 290-300 lb/ft (I believe), running about 1.3 bar boost max. I know Glen won't agree but according to AMD I allegedly get this figure with a chip only - except on my chip only car this figure lasts for about 250 rpm, whereas with Jabba IHI kit its meant to last for a few 1000 rpm - which would be a massive difference.

    They say its all about releasing the back pressure.

    Few more interested people and we could start a Jabba groub guy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Dunc
    #26

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