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Anyone else with this problem on 2006 2.0 TDi? Injectors...

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by jfarhead, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. benr
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    benr Member

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    [May 16, 2011]
    You will want to check the small print.... I have AA warranty (5*) and it doesn't cover injectors. Take a look at the info on the AA site you can download the policy details.

    They do do another policy which covers everything though.
  2. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 16, 2011]
    From what I have read I think it should be covered, I did the bundle option online when choosing breakdown cover.

    This is what I chose:
    Parts & garage cover for 1 car
    Extends roadside cover for one vehicle to include cost of parts and extra garage work. (We'll need the number plate.)
    Your car may need a new battery or more work. This is known as 'Breakdown Repair Cover' and it helps towards parts or garage work after you've called us out.
    Up to 5 paid claims a year (£500 per time), each with a £25 excess.
    Small Print which I think would relate to them possibly failing:
    Fuel System
    [FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT][FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT]All parts are covered, [/FONT][/FONT]other than [FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT][FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT]in the case of damage or failure due to incorrect or contaminated fuel, internal blockage, adjustments and failure to meet current emission legislation. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT][FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT]Other parts that are not covered: [FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT][FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT]All body parts, roof frames, glass, non-glass windows, paint, upholstery, folding roof fabric, trim, and cosmetic finishes, motorcycle frames and fairings; Any equipment that is not fitted as standard by the manufacturer at the time of production[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT][FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT][/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT][FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT]Thanks highlighting this though[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT][FONT=Frutiger LT,Frutiger LT]
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
  3. Greg Roles
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    Greg Roles New Member

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    [May 16, 2011]
    A3 TDI PD injector loom issues - Audi Mag | VAGOC.co.uk

    Another forum full of woe, but at last some hard facts.

    NEW improved loom 03G971033L @£82.28
    injector 03G130073TX @£556

    Old part numbers, just so you can cross reference, this info came from Audi Hatfield.
    loom 03G971033D
    injector 03G130073MX

    The old loom: Part number suffix 'D' dropped on 01/04/2008 and changed to suffx 'L' according to ETKA.
  4. benr
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    benr Member

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    [May 16, 2011]
    Ok but you will want to double check. They should send you a booklet with what's explicitly not covered. They use 3*, 5* and Gold cover. Gold is the only one which seems to cover injectors. For the 5* cover under "diesel cover" it explicitly states excludes injectors...
  5. ldavis
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    ldavis New Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    Reading thi sthread has got me very concerned. My car broke down in South West France just as we were about to return from our holiday (Wife and 2 children, one 3 and th eother 10 months in the car as well). The symptons match what you have all experienced and the French garage say it is a Relay issue but won't hav ethat part until wednesday at least. RAC were fantastic and got us home. We used hire cars and have to fly back out to pick up th ecar once fixed.

    The dilema I have is that a) i am fully expecting th eoriginal diagnosis to turn in to an injector problem which even if they fix i have to drive 6.5 hours across France to get the tunnel + another 90 minutes drivibng in the UK. I will be terrified to go in the outside lane in case we lose power. I am thankful that my children will not be on that journey but even if the injectors are replaced there doesn't seem to be any guarantee that the injectors have been redesigned and will be more reliable or stop the ECU from shutting down.

    We frequently have to travel to Sheffield on busy motorways and having spent £15k on A4 Avant 56 plate 170 TDi last March i am concerned for my families safety. It is the car we wanted and spent a year searching and ruling out other options. Car had 50k on the clock

    I spoke with my local Audi dealership this morning an dthey are going to check if the the injectors hav ebeen changed but i have a dilema now as to what we do. Have to get the car back to UK somehow but could be forced to shell out 2k on injectors which could go again at any time.

    I am tempted to pay the money (i will ask for discount) and sell the thing as i can't put a price on my family's safety.
  6. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    I got fitted with these in September when number 3 failed:
    Loom.........03G 971 033M
    Inject.........03G 130 073TX

    ... number 3 is the one that failed again, and it's the new injector... doesn't look too good.
  7. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    If you want a quick way out and have the money, I would get it running and sell it asap. Alternatively follow one of the other routes on this thread.

    ... don't forget to report to VOSA... maybe VAG can then blame low quality/contaminated French diesel for your case? I wouldn't be surprised...
  8. ldavis
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    ldavis New Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    When your new No.3 injector went did you have the full cut out and no brakes issue again?
  9. FUNKYCLIFF
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    FUNKYCLIFF Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    I have to say my heart goes out to all you guys experiencing these problems, it shouldnt happen to a brand like and not get fixed by them. I was a bit gutted when i couldnt afford a diesel last year and eneded up with a 2.0tfsi petrol. But after seeing what quite memebers have been going through the last year, i feel really lucky because i know if it had happened to me i would have drove it through my local Audi showroom window and left it there and posted the video on youtbe explaining why. I sincerely hope VOSA and others sort things out for you.
  10. ldavis
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    ldavis New Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    Do you still get the full engine cut out, no brakes etc when the new injectors fail? That is the thing that most concerns me
  11. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    Identical failure, same route, same speed, just 1/2 mile from where it failed the last time.
  12. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    How long have VAG got left to respond to vosa ?, it can't be long
  13. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    4th e-mail to audi in 4 weeks - no replies - really pi**ing me off.
  14. pc1975
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    pc1975 New Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    Hi

    I emailled Audi on Sunday evening and asked a number of specific questions on the safety and reliability aspects and the difference in approach between the VAG brands.

    I got a call Monday saying that my email had been passed to a case manager and that they would replay by the end of the week. I'll update when I receive a reply, I'll assume I will get a reply.

    I also got a reply from VOSA at the weekend saying they had received my fault report. Has anyone asked VOSA about definitions for their work, the two main ones I'm looking at are manufacturer, in our case is this VAG or Audi UK, given the examples of differing approach. I asked Audi this question, since the terms and conditions piece of the customer services email states that Audi UK Ltd as trading name of VAG (or something to that effect).

    On a side point, is it my imagination or have people noticed slightly better fuel consumption, I may be driving slower and not realising ! I've not filled up since the injector was replaced, but judging by the miles left I seem to be getting slightly better mileage.
  15. Adgard
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    Adgard New Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    Sent audi a letter last week had a response today saying that they arefully coperatimg with vosa and will let me know as soon as they have any details spoke to visa and they arddue another meeting with vag this week Cheshire oaks audi still have my car and I'm running my very reliable 1964 Landrover no problems with the injectors on this thing ok it might not be fast or pretty but one thing I can bank on is that no matter the weather. It will start not like the a4
  16. fatbutcher
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    fatbutcher New Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    I also emailed Audi UK at the weekend (via the form on their website) and received a call yeasterday, they were supposed to get back to me today to let me know what they can do for me. I called them this evening, but the woman dealing with my case had left, I should speak to her in the morning hopefully.

    mm700 - if your not getting any contact from them, I'd call them 0800 699 888.

    Additionally, in reply to ldavis and a few other comments posted, I can understand you wanting to fix it and flog it, safety of my family is also a priority for me, but just selling it on to someone else is just moving the problem, you could still be on the same peice of road as a car that fails and be involved in an accident.

    I'd urge you to fill in the VOSA form and send it, and contact Audi UK and express your concerns.
  17. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    Whether you keep it or sell it off, the problem is still there, it will fail in his hands or someone else's all the same, he's just not shelling out £££s to maintain it endlessly, and nobody can afford to let the car sit and rot because they're too scared to drive it. The only thing I would say is to inform the next buyer of the repairs that have been done so your a$$ is covered too.

    Alternatively p/x it at a loss to a dealership and the next buyer will be covered under the SOG Act for 6 years if it pi$$es him off, and the usual x months/year warranty that comes with the sale.

    I have tried to maintain the moral high ground on the issue, but I literally cannot afford it with a second on the way.

    Anyway, VOSA have not responded to my recent emails. I am getting my car back from the dealership tomorrow, I will be interested to know what they diagnosed as a fault and what bull$hit excuse they will give for the failure...
  18. fatbutcher
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    fatbutcher New Member

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    [May 17, 2011]
    I'm with you on that one, I just anyone who experiances this will inform VOSA and Audi UK, even if they do ultimately sell the car on. You can at least move on happy you tried to do the right thing as best you could. I certainly can't afford to keep mine off the road indefinetely.

    I am lucky I have another vehicle to use in the mean time, its an 12 year old A4 ,the old 1.9TDI (110), 170k miles (100k I've done) and it only let me down when the original battery finally had enough of being abused a few winters ago. Driving round in it reminds me why I bought another Audi, I still hope they can show I made the right choice in getting another.

    I forget to mention in my last post about the brakes, someone mentioned loosing the brakes. Thats no my experiance, and due to the engine not running, i found both steering and braking assistance was certainly lost, and you notice it, was like driving my old mk2 Golf again!

    It was this loss of steering and braking assistance, and the engine cutting without warning that formed my main safety concern in my email to Audi.
  19. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 18, 2011]
    It's been 6 weeks and 3 days now. I emailed them at 6 weeks and no response...
  20. ldavis
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    ldavis New Member

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    [May 18, 2011]
    Just spoken to the RAC and the French garage have fixed the relay but now found a fault with the injector. So welcome another member to the club!

    Dilema is that if i let the French garage fix it will that result in me losing bargaining power with Audi. At the moment i have several options all of which will cost me a fortune (sell it or fix it).

    For those who have had replacement injectors fail how many miles had you done in between. I do less than 10k a year so if the failure was 20k-30k miles then i can buy myself some time to look explore all the options

    Anyone had theirs replaced done significant mileage and had no problems since?
  21. ldavis
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    ldavis New Member

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    [May 18, 2011]
  22. fatbutcher
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    fatbutcher New Member

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    [May 18, 2011]
    Audi UK called me back today and said that my local dealer couldn't offer me any good will gesture. I'm a bit confused, if good will gesture is offered, who does this come from? Why would it be the dealer?
  23. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 19, 2011]
    The manager could be difficult and ask you to have towed the car over to his garage intead of fixing it in France. That's what Audi Northampton told me before on two different occasions. That was one of the factors that led me to only repair it independantly as I was FASH previously and they STILL didn't give a $h!t.

    The failures are at random, if we had worked out a pattern we would have found the solution by now :)

    You will find with some search in several threads that people have had multiple failures, as short as two days apart. I have had two on the SAME injector 15k apart, so the NEW one failed too.

    Please go ahead, I don't know anyone who has had any response from any media or authority so far, if you make some headway with them, it would be great! VOSA will only provide the number of reports sent in, nothing more (if that helps)

    It's basically a factory gesture. And if youn haven't already paid for it with the inflated FASH prices, you won't be getting the "goodwill" gesture. They will cite "loyalty" to the brand as an excuse, even though you're driving a damn AUDI everywhere.
    VOSA got back to me with:

    "We still do not have a response from VAG, but I will inform you when we do"

    ...Not very promising...
  24. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [May 19, 2011]
    Wrote to Audi asking if they would replace the remaining 3 injectors prior to them failing as I felt it was unsafe to drive due to imminent failure etc .......................

    Further to your recent email regarding the injectors, I have looked into your case further to see if Audi UK would offer any support, unfortunately on this occasion Audi UK would not offer any support on a part that has not failed, it would only be if and when these parts fail that Audi UK would look to support a customer with the repair costs
  25. ldavis
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    ldavis New Member

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    [May 19, 2011]
    I saw on another thread someone ask the question about the Oil Min light coming on before the failure. Before setting off to France i check the oil, which had been changed last Nov, and it looked like it was at the min but had oil on the max part but nothing in between. Suspecting the oil light would come on while i was away i set off with spare oil and low and behold in France the light cam on and i put in 0.5 litres and checked again and it looked good.
    Just wondering whether anyone else a) has had this happen or b) uses 0.5l of oil in 6 months? Driving is only local and occasional trips from London to Sheffield cruising around 70-80mph

    Waiting for RAC to call back and confirm what they are going to do. If the garage can't fix it they say that it will either be moved to another garage or repatriated. Another 3 weeks without a car and when it comes back more time to get it fixed. I am hoping the cannot fix it then it gives VAG 3 more weeks to come up with an answer before i have to decide what to do.

    Wife tells me that Citroen have just recalled C3's because a passenger with their feet on the floor can cause the car to brake. How ridiculous is that.

    Jfarhead, thanks for your replies. One question. Are you saying that Audi will only offer goodwill if you have already paid for an injector to be replaced previously or were you saying that you had to have used Audi to service your vehicle for its lifetime before getting goodwill offers?
  26. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [May 19, 2011]
    I think that may be because it was featured on bbc watchdog ( last week or this week )
  27. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 19, 2011]
    Yes. If it was serviced by an independant before, but has been ASH since you owned it for example, you may have a case as YOU were loyal to the franchise. When I spoke to Audi UK on the phone, the guy categorically stated to me after a heated conversation, that I would not get anything for free if I had not paid anything to them by using their services.

    In other news, asked the following agencies for information to submit the case AGAIN (3rd, 4th time now?) to BBC Watchdog and some magazines (as long as I can get permission to use these numbers of course): AA, RAC, Green Flag, VOSA, and SMMT.

    Just got told my car will be missing for yet another week, but my specialist and the Audi dealership have been extremely helpful, nice, and cooperative (injector issue aside)...

    In the meantime I keep browsing the forums in hope that someone posts the good news we're waiting for.
  28. xs2man
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    xs2man Member

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    [May 19, 2011]
    Don't get done, get Dom...

    Flame | Don't Get Done Get Dom

    Daytime tv, I know, but he seems to get stuck in about, even with only a few respondents. I think if you all fired off an email to him, you would stand a chance of him taking it on. Worth a try if you've tried everywhere else...

    Although you may end up being on national tv, playing the poor, hard done by customer....
  29. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 19, 2011]
    Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders just passed me on to Motor Codes who in turn can do nothing about it. So another dead end.

    I'll have to check Dom out on iPlayer to see what he's all about...
  30. FUNKYCLIFF
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    FUNKYCLIFF Member

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    [May 19, 2011]
    Dom is a good guy to try, he used to be in the motor trade and have a show on itv a few years back so i am sure he will know whats what and get his teeth stuck into it. Imagine him saying on BBC1 come Audi sort your life out even MG Rover didnt have these kind of problems PMSL :)
  31. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 19, 2011]
    Definately not ruled out :)

    It seems that the breakdown people are reluctant to release information, which is understandable, but I have told them I would not have bothered if I didn't think it was a genuine problem. I asked they look at their own figures and if there is an obvious trend of breakdowns that could be attributed to this problem, to follow up... explained as much on the issue as possible.

    The seed is planted, if they find something, they will hopefully help if they can see the figures are genuinely concerning without breaking any rules. It helps if they know there may be a problem after all!
  32. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [May 19, 2011]
    This from Audi .....

    I have liaised with our technical department on this issue who advised that each injector has an electric pulse sent to it, it is when this pulse is interrupted that causes the injector to fail


    So does this mean that the injectors themselves are not faulty but it is the electrical system ?
  33. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 20, 2011]
    Craftily worded response... but at least it means someone is hopefully looking into it, and can pinpoint the fault and fix it once and for all. It's a step forward from the exuses we got before. Well done for getting that much out of them though.

    Still no car here, it'll be 3 weeks by the time I pick it up. Lucky I only own a car simply to cover the ugly empty space infront of the house, otherwise I'd be in trouble with wife, kids, shopping, commuting and all...
  34. fartingfury
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    fartingfury New Member

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    [May 20, 2011]
    Hey. Just joined up to report that I've also had this problem a week ago. Was driving down a tree-lined country road in Southern France - so there was nowhere to pull over! Managed to coast in neutral to a farm entrance and eventually get picked up by a tow truck, €1000 repair at the nearest VW garage etc etc. I think everybody here already knows the drill!

    I had the form into VOSA a few days later.

    I actually have a small contribution to make to the conversation, too:
    An Aussie guy has been on the various VAG-owner forum threads about this issue and he suggested that it might be possible to get injectors repaired at the London-based AP diesels but they weren't responding to his e-mails.
    So I gave them a call earlier this week and asked the person I was transferred to if he was familiar with the problems of the PD170 TDI. He said he was and that they'd already done 60-80 of those injectors. To be honest, I'm not quite sure if he was talking about the PD170-possible-short-circuit issue specifically or if maybe those 60-80 were just all of the TDI-injector overhauls they'd ever done, so my next question was whether or not their overhaul process included a level of disassembly that would repair wiring vulnerable to internal short circuits and, without hesitation, he said yes. The price is £250 each. He also said that the process takes "no more than a few days" and is a little longer than for other components because there is an 8-hour epoxy cure required - which I take to mean that they are gutting the component pretty comprehensively before rebuilding it.
    He also cautioned me that sometimes injectors just will not work in-service, no matter how well they pass workshop testing but that there is a money-back guarantee in that case. That is a worry for me, since I intend to send in three working (even if not truely serviceable!) injectors and don't like the idea of them coming back not working at all. Plus as well, I assume VAG won't give me that partial rebate on a new injector in exchange for the old if the old one has been overhauled by a third party.

    So, in the (hopefully unlikely!) event of VAG not launching recall I think I might take that overhaul option - I know that the experience of others here has been that even replacements can fail at low mileages but, I mean, what the hell else are we supposed to do?! The "I'm sorry about your experience" from Customer Support will be of scant comfort to me when I am inevitably stuck at the roadside again! New components don't seem to be any guarantee... so where does that leave us all? At least there's some hope that an overhaul will be done to a certain standard - one informed by experience with other engines, particularly the big commercial ones. On the other hand, is it really so difficult to insulate some wires? Could Siemens REALLY have gotten that wrong? I'd have expected that task to be pretty trivial in this day and age, so maybe there is some special circumstance that is particularly difficult to protect against?

    By the way, 'tis a 60k 2007 Skoda Octavia VRS that I have but since this seems to be the most active thread (thanks for the efforts Mr. Farhead!) I thought I'd post here. I've a full main dealer service history but Skoda UK were having no talk of goodwill because the car wasn't at a UK garage. They also weren't bothered whether or not VW/Audi/Seat were offering goodwill. So, to summarise, Skoda UK believes that VAG garages on the continent are totally incompetent (and based on my experience this week, they most certainly are not (mind you, I was paying them enough!)) and that the lives of Skoda drivers are not as important as those of VWs and SEATs (since Audi don't seem to be very forthcoming, I won't count them yet).

    Anyway, rant over. Let's wait and see what VOSA say...
  35. Greg Roles
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    Greg Roles New Member

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    [May 21, 2011]
    And that Aussie guy is now happy, thanks for finding out about AP!
  36. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    AA, RAC, Green Flag will not release figures...
    SMMT will charge £120 for their figures but are not able to separate 140 from 170bhps, plus this info is useless unless you have a breakdown figure to compare to...
    Motor Codes add no value at this point as they have neither legal or regulatory powers...

    So dead ends all round... looks like even if I did want to supply the Watchdog with some numbers to strengthen the case and have someone look into it seriously... I can't.

    Also some shocking new detail from an Honest John poster:

    You didn't have a new injector fitted at any time if the part numbers you quote are correct.

    The suffix "X" on a VAG part number signifies a re-worked old part supplied as a service replacement.

    So, same old rubbish re-worked. Nice people to do business with.

    The injector 3 that failed again on my car was a refurbished old piece. So when they go around swapping these injectors at full price, they are fitting in someone else's old failure with some parts changed...

    Basically the same injector... is there even a new improved one, or is it a myth and we're going in circles?????
    Last edited: May 23, 2011
  37. ReformIT
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    ReformIT New Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    Hmmm - this thread makes vaguely depressing reading. My A4 died this morning - driving along just fine, glow plug light comes on, all engine power gone.
    A very nice man from the AA came out and suggested it was an injector fault. Apparently the equivalent VW Passats suffer with this too.
    It is currently residing at the Audi dealership round the corner awaiting diagnosis.
    Fortunately when I bought the car from a local "car supermarket" 14 months ago I also purchased a 3 year warranty. All the Ts and Cs are at home so I will have to wait until I get back to see whether injectors are covered.

    The car has been serviced mostly by Audi dealerships in its past. Registered in February 2007 It's done 86000 and it was only just serviced last week at the dealership I just took it to.

    Anyway bloody good service from the AA - arrived within 10 minutes of my call and even gave me a lift back to my office after dropping the car off. Lets hope the Audi dealership continue the good service...
  38. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    Welcome to the injector thead, please fill in a VOSA form and wait for you number to be called out lol :)

    Has the car been serviced by Audi during your ownership?

    On a serious note, hopefully it'll be covered in the T&Cs at least... it'll save you pain, but unfortunately won't get rid of the seed of doubt that has now been planted in everyone's heads :(
  39. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [May 24, 2011]
    Got the AA paperwork yesterday and there is no mention of the injectors not being covered... so it's good news for now.
  40. pc1975
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    pc1975 New Member

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    [May 24, 2011]
    Hi All

    Well spoke with Audi on saturday and then a case manager yesterday. Both people I spoke to were both understanding of the issue, but were not able to give any information. I asked about the differences in approaches between the VAG brands and highlighted that SEAT and VW had been replacing all 4 injectors. I was told that the different brands would independantly decide on the approach to take regarding replacing 1 or all injectors.

    Also got a response from VOSA this morning, as asked them for an update, and was told there is a meeting with VAG this thursday and that when a conclusion has been reached they will contact all those people that have submitted a report.

    Still think there could be some time before there is conclusion on this, but we will see !

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