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Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by jfarhead, Sep 21, 2010.
If all 4 were replaced aren't they guaranteed for 12 or even 24 months ?
All parts and labour is covered by a 12 month guarantee, otherwise what is the point of getting Audi to do the work if they can never be held accountable?
An extract from my recent conversation with Audi Northampton 04/05/2011:
âWe can confirm that there is factory goodwill available for the injectors but this can only be offered with the backup of a full brand service record.â
Iâm sure Trading Standards will have something to say about thisâ¦
Iâm getting tired of the misuse of âgoodwillâ in these cases. No, you supplied me with a sh!tty part and now you have to replace it, itâs not goodwill, itâs you saving your ar$e from a few thousand lawsuits.
One question though, would you have contacted VOSA if the injectors had NOT failed the second time around? People should not be content with Audiâs âpayoffâ, which is effectively what it is.
You have a good case (unfortunately). Please press VOSA and make a big deal out of it because it is. Youâve proven we cannot trust the dealer. Email the dealership (as I do) get a response in writing. Donât be aggressive, just make sure you have your service history mentioned, when they swapped it, the fact you think it should be under 12 month guarantee, the fact they said it would be fine now, and that you think the loom should now be swapped too, with dates of failures and what happened when it failed, and if they can please sort it out, and with some clarification on any reasons they can/will not.
Get them to basically respond and categorically tell you that youâre not covered, you will have to pay for reasons x y z.
When VOSA come back with no result and I end up in court for towing my dead A4 through their lovely displays onto their front desk, Iâll need some more written proof to show they just donât give a sh!t.
I will be writing to various car magazines this weekend to highlight the issueâ¦
Yeah should be covered but have been told today that they only changed injector no.4 not all 4 so again just a quick pay off. Also asked them why when they know this is an issue with these injectors are the not all being replaced and was told there isn't anything wrong with them it's just wear and tear??? What? Some injectors are failing after 20k that's not wear and tear. Waiting for visa to get back to me now. If no luck off to the solicitors I go this on isn't going to be dropped. The other thing I'm not sure about is why they want Â£1729 for 1 injector as I have priced them today injector Â£459.87 and loom Â£68.36 just shy of Â£530 so where does the other Â£1100 go confused
... pays for the goodwill gestures of course...
Get everything in writing, they will change the story 100 times to get out of being liable. Iâve heard the same things you have and even more from dealerships and the useless Audi UK. Theyâll tell you all you want to hear over the phone or in personâ¦ nothing ever gets put on paper where someone can be held responsible (even though legally their word is contractually as valid as writing, there is just no proof thatâs all)â¦
Iâve written and challenged these exact points they mention, their response only that they cannot change them on a goodwill basisâ¦ and ignored the rest of the letterâ¦
VOSA have just told me:
âThank you for your e-mail.
At the moment, all I can tell you is that we are still investigating the
problem with the manufacturers.â
Vague or what? I canât wait to see what excuse VAG come back with. Iâm sure they will reiterate the âcoincidence, wear and tearâ cr@p... If VOSA have not challenged these excuses then we have a bigger issue at hand and thatâs that VOSA are not fit for purposeâ¦ but letâs see what happens.
Keep us updated, Iâm interested to see how theyâll wiggle out of thisâ¦
If it's not wear and tear then there is an issue... they will never admit it though...
Wife just called...
... f*cking injector failed AGAIN...
I am SO F*CKING FURIOUS...
Sorry to hear that - I just daren't use mine these days as I know it's just a matter of time before I get another one failed myself
... 7 months pregnant and with my 2 year old in the back... She couldn't even make it off the road, it's just sitting here barely on the side... I've sent them off home while I wait for recovery now, it will give me sufficient time to think about the next step...
... Coincidence of course... Just wear and tear... It won't be a coincidence when I tear their heads off and wear their skin as a jacket when this is over...
How long have audi left before they need to respond - can't be far off.
Maybe we should all bomabard watchdog as the next step - I've already done it a few weeks back but if we all mail at the same time they may take it up.
Sorry to hear that jfarhead. I am in total agreement with you. I have been down to audi this morning to see them and collect something out of my car to find 2 dents in the bonnet and multiple scratches leading from the roof all down the bonnet. not happy at all, lost all faith in them had a massive argument with the service manager and left. I still haven't got my car back and they still won't put anything in writing other than a non itemised quote for the work that needs doing. I have come so close to loosing it with them it is unreal. How can they be allowed to get away with it I to am now waiting for vosa and trading standards I'm off to the solicitors in the morning for a letter basicly saying that they have knowingly endangered the life of my family be allowing me to drive round in a car fitted with fault parts and not informing me and give them 7 days to respond before I take leagal action against them I know I shouldn't have to but for Â£60 it's worth a go
Have a word with your solicitor and see if he can advise on what would happen if say 50 people went to court against Audi UK on this, just a chat... might as well prepare for that route, I will be doing that too, but I am waiting till VOSA get back so I can attack the softer target first...
Got my car back yesterday from Audi. All 4 injectors have now been replaced after 3 trips. Car broke down again this morining. Same problem. Wonder what they will say this time.
I've just been told the injectors have failed in my 80k miler 2005 A6 3.0 TDi and the repair bill is going to be Â£3k to have all 6 replaced as this is the only way they can guarantee the problem not happening again. Haven't seen any loss in performance yet but the billowing white smoke has started and it's only going to get worse I'm told.
As my recent service history is with Audi specialists and not a main dealer I'm getting nothing for good will and have been advised to pay Â£250 for the diagnostics at a main dealer as Bosch haven't released any details on the calibration of their injectors outside of the Audi community and the only way my aftermarket extended mecanical warranty will consider contributing is if Audi confirm it's a failure and not a leak. Apparently Audi consider this to be wear and tear which is why there's no recall been considered.
I'll book it in and pay for the diagnostic test just to confirm the problem but the fact I have a 3 year extended warranty which I'm being told doesn't cover this really pains me. Don't know what to do.. repair the problem by paying for all the injectors to be fixed and keep it or off load it after fixing what I hope might be a single replacement. Either way it's going to hurt.
I have had a long conversation with Trading Standards and have got the below. Basically Audi have no leg to stand when discriminating between FASH and independent servicing, private or hire-purchase owners, they have to address the problem, their policies mean d*ck against the law. The problem is that we could write to them and cite the following (as TS said we should be doing), but they will most likely say it is not a fault (as expected) and it will end up having to go to court to get anything doneâ¦
Relevant or Related Legislation:
Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
â¢ Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
(What is an inherent fault?
A fault present at the time of purchase. Examples are:
â¢ an error in design so that a product is manufactured incorrectly
â¢ an error in manufacturing where a faulty component was inserted.
The "fault" may not become apparent immediately but it was there at the time of sale and so the product was not of satisfactory standard.)
â¢ It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.
â¢ For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).
â¢ If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit
â¢ In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).
Have a think about it... we KNOW it's a defect...
I'll get hold of the Watchdog next if I can...
My A4 Avant S Line 2.0TDI 170 (56) had the same problem in lane 2, got to verge of the dual track. Happened 3 days ago.
Recovered to my local Audi dealer. 2 injectors U/S. He's replacing both for free!!
I'm pushing for the other two as well!!
Not a forum user normally but just a massive thanks to all the posters on here! You allowed me to go in armed with a lot of facts!!
You have probably saved me a Â£2K!! I'll drop a few Â£ to help for heroes as a thank you!
I just had some free steak courtesy of my boss, and not having to pay for it has freed up a couple of braincells for a brilliant brilliant idea...
How would a couple of hundred Audis parked outside Audi UK's front door look like on TV? We just need an address, the media will do the rest. I'll call up the local council and police to get an ok for a date to keep it kosher, and we'll get the media to do the work for us. I think a few hundred people there should do the trick.
Everyone can get involved, every VAG owner can smash it down there. Half the middle east got their government changed like that. They cannot ignore us then, plus the rest of the country will know...
All you have to do is give one day of your weekend and just turn up...
Anyone? ... Or have I got food poisoning?
Now THAT'S where Facebook comes in...
There used to be a bloke round here who had his vw covered in big decals saying things like 'Never buy a car from Dane Motors - ring this number and I will tell you why'
He used to park it on the main road outside the vw main dealers ( Dane Motors ) and, presumably, go to work each day.
I guess he must have eventually got some sort of outcome because he stopped after a while.
Haha, they probably sued him and won, and he had to sell the car to cover the costs...
that passat came back in on wednesday, the one i mentioned on the other page.... 57 plate bre engine..... fitted injector no.3 late last year...... no.2 injector this time, failed doing 80mph an a motorway apparntly. guy just made it coasting to the hard shoulder! guy proper kicked off at us saying hes not paying us to fix it again for the same fault. so.......
we rung up hayseldens in barnsley....... all we had to do is mention injector failure and the thread on here, vosa etc.... they came and recovered it (the same fooking day) and fitted the other three injectors free of charge! and delivered it back to us on friday for the customer to collect it from us (an independant thats serviced it twice in the past 2 years!) quality! i couldnt believe it! lol!
audi soooo know about this sh1t! fight your corner!
when you fight your corner. have all the facts, dont take the excuses.... the one thats failed they're all the same design 1,2,3 and 4. your guna let your car break down 4 times????? get angry! id sit in the showroom til the police came to remove you..... then id be there at 8am the next morning to do the same!
the injector loom only needs replacing because of the (Poor design meaning) connectors to the injectors being sat in oil and engine temps. for so long that the plugs go so brittle that you cant touch them without the plastic plugs shattering thru simply unplugging them.
Result! (although temporary)
I have decided I will now be going down the legal route.
Adgard... any progress on your end?
Had this same problem on my 06 a3 170 got the new injector and loom installed by a local garage,
#No problems for 6 months .
Then yesterday car cutout on the front street , showing the same symtoms again . Going to try audi on monday and
if nothing , jus going to replace myself.
probally just move the car on after that.
car is costing tooo much to keep goin.
Sorry to hear that niallraff, don't forget to report to VOSA too. I've had mine over 3 years now and I'll end up having to replace it as well because of the problem!
Audi Cheshire oaks phoned this morning to say that the best they can do is Â£700 per injector it's amazing that a week of arguing and my car sitting there that they can drop Â£1000 off per injector. I'm up for going down to audi hq with mine on a trailer just incase It it breaksdown again but really think the time has come for audi to pay up suprising how they have just recalled all original 1.8 turbo coil packs because they where failing problem is most of them have been replaced by the owners by now at a cost
Well done on squeezing them, but Â£700 is what you pay at an Indy to get it done unfortunately.
I am still checking whether my house insurance will have adequate legal cover to take them to court. Audi are counting on the fact it is cheaper to get them all swapped than drag out the legal fight.
In other news:
Seems Porsche Romania are taking responsibility and swapping these injectors out:
"For those who have not yet changed all the injectors come with good news (it's even better):
Importer Porsche Romania dealers communicated through a circular that may change free defective injectors for engine codes: BKP, BMR, BMN, BMA, Buz, BVE, BWV.
Circular is issued by the importer and is nr.549 on 2 May 2011."
Injectoare PD 2.0TDI distruse - vwForum.ro - Page 57
I have posted in Greece too:
More power for the A4 2.0 TDI - Hellenic Audi Club&
I had mine done in Cheshire oaks a few months back, Â£700 with no discount, sounds like they have inflated the price before discounting it.
I have e-mailed audi 3 times in as many weeks about this and not even had a reply, how's that for customer service for a so called quality car ?
thats interesting to know im staying clear of there at the moment even though my car is there and there are things in it i need. i think if i go back there this week i will end up getting aressted nice to know its not just me they are trying to rip off.
just pulled this from audi website so if they are that good why didnt they tell me in march when my car was with them that the injector was due to fail because they didnt give me any notice.
Quote from audi:
Whatâs more, we have so much expertise and experience in looking after Audi vehicles that we are able to make a note of your mileage and the state of your vehicle as and when we see it and predict when certain key events may occur. As part of our duty of care, we will notify you in plenty of time should you wish to make an appointment with us.
Save a copy of the page in case you do end up in court. Get as much as you can in writing directly from the dealership. Don't threaten in any way, keep it all neutral and always refer to your rights as a customer and not to how you "feel" about it.
I've already started my claim. I've had the letter read checked and it will be going out tomorrow morning. Within 2 weeks I will either get a full refund and everything replaced, or we will be discussing court results on here.
My dealership, and it is to claim damages under the Sale of Goods Act. I will update as soon as I get some solid results, it may help others while VOSA do their investigation.
Last wednesday evening I joined the list of owners with the blown injector, luckily for me I was driving at less than 10 mph at the time. The car got diagnosed by Audi on Monday and I got it back yesterday. Following on from reading this and other forums, I did mention the goodwill examples and the safety concerns to both Audi UK who knew of no issues with my car (an 07 A4 170 s-line), the dealership were also telling me they were unaware of any potential issues. However, they were both polite and I didn't have to argue at all about getting full goodwill. I asked what would happen if/when other injectors go and was essentially told would depend on a number of factors with no real clarity.
I did get full "factory goodwill" as have full service history or rather the previous owner did as I've only had for about 6-7 weeks.
I emailled VOSA last wednesday evening when I suspected that the issue was the injector and also to express concern regardless. They responded to me by 7:30 the following morning with the defects report. Once Audi confirmed that it was the injector, I filled it in and have emailled it off.
Looking through some of the other forums, I noted the following, seems that SEAT are being more forthcoming in rectifying the problem. Unless I'm missing something in the comments being put forward. I find it interesting that the more premium brand is not leading on this.....
Leon FR TDi Injector problem - Page 8 - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum
I'm planning on contacting Audi UK at some point in the next few days to express my general concerns, and hope that something comes through VOSA in the near future that helps me start enjoying my new car again.
Looking through some of the other forums, I noted the following, seems that SEAT are being more forthcoming in rectifying the problem
Looking at the forum on the honest john website it looks like VW are being very helpful ie: changing all 4 injectors for free
Turns out my injector 3 has failed again (this recent one). I won't have the car back till next Wednesday at earliest as it is being towed off by the local Audi so they can run their own diagnostics and replace the injector they supplied to my specialist last September (basically doing their job under the 12 month warranty from my 1st failure)... this should be interesting...
They may be replacing these parts, which is a start, but let's not forget this will most likely not cover (for example) someone who has bought it privately and is stuck with the faults... a recall would have included him too right?
Still nothing from VOSA.
This from a guy on the Honest John website this week ........
( Day 1 )
My 57 plate passat SEL 170 died on the A34 on Fri night. It was the same story: engine cut out, loss of power and warning light on the dash. Very dangerous as overtaking at the time and when the power dies there is nothing to tell the car behind you that you are about to slow down so much squealing of brakes behind me......................
will update you on progress but it seems that VW are taking this very seriously and are prepared to bend over backwards to help.
( Day 2 )
Quick update - VW dealer called to say that VW would cover 100 % of the cost of replacing all 4 injectors
I just don't understand why VW are doing them but not Audi. I'd be interested to know if VW would do them without a failure first.
Sorry to say, but I too had this problem a couple of nights ago (A4 56 plate - 58K miles).
I was at high speed on the M6 when the engine simply cut out. Fortunately I was able to drift to the hard shoulder and call the AA.
There's been some talk on this thread about legal redress against the seller of goods etc. - but I bought my car privately from its first owner. He kept a FASH but the first time I required the service I went to a trusty independent (there isn't an Audi dealer in my town anyway).
Do I still have any redress? Fortunately I have AA Breakdown Cover which *should* cover Â£500 of the Â£727 cost I've been quoted, although as I write I'm waiting to hear confirmation on whether they will pay up.
I really do love my Audi even though it hasn't been the most reliable, and I wanted to keep it for a long time, but now I'm not so sure. I've got the cambelt coming up later this year, and 3 other injectors which might fail at any time causing an accident.
Should I just cut my losses and sell ? I'm not sure I can be bothered with the hassle otherwise.
I'm joining this thread after my A4 170 tdi Quattro quit on wednesday. I was on an 80 mile trip home, had left the motorway and dual carriage ways to finish my journey on a back road, luckily managed to coast away from the blind bend I was going round and to a small strip of dirt in front of a farm house.
Curiously I managed to restart the car and complete the last 15 miles, sound like I was lucky to make it. Later in the evening, it wouldn't start at all. The car has also been lethargic to start since I got it, and even more so when I set off.
I use a local specialist to service my Audi's (have an old A4, which has never let me down in 7 years), and he diagnosed the injector fault and narrowed it down to no.2. The replacement is on order and he'll be fitting it next week.
I will certainly be contacting Audi UK and VOSA regarding this as I am also concerned it will happen again. Ultimately I want the cost covering if possible and from what I read, Audi should really be doing a recall to fix this issue.
Well, I got my car back today, after just 2 days off the road, thanks to a fantastic quick turnaround by my local independent. Not sure whether it's my imagination but the engine certainly feels smoother too. :thumbsup:
However, given the experiences of others it's still going to be in the back of my mind that another injector might go kaput. I will be filling in the VOSA form and I hope that enough pressure can be put on Audi/VAG to provide us with a resolution - and quick.
I've just bought myself AA road cover which includes the "Â£500 per failure" box ticked. That way it gets towed to our specialist from anywhere in the UK, gets the angry people home, and covers Â£500 of the parts and repair. My specialist now knows how to swap it with his eyes shut, so I don't even have to get the problem diagnosed.
It's max 5 claims a year and I only have 4 injectors, so it's a bargain! (even though the same one keeps failing). That should hopefully last me while the whole VOSA thing comes through...