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Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by jfarhead, Sep 21, 2010.
Mine has full history with the dealer who replaced them....
Well I'm not too pleased with the fact they can pick and choose who they give these gestures to when it is a design fault. I've already emailed Audi about this and am in the process of collecting as much detail on this to finalise my email to VOSA. They state clearly:
"If you believe you have experienced a safety defect due to a deficiency in the design or construction of your automotive product, please complete a report form or email email@example.com so that we may assess whether or not we can take the matter forward"
As far as I am concerned, driving around with 4 injectors with a KNOWN issue that kills the engine/steering/braking is a death trap. Everyone here seems content with arguing the case at the dealership and getting 1 or 4 swapped depending on the manager's mood, but this should not be about how many stamps you have, it's not Nando's. Can you imagine an outlet not dealing with the food poisoning they caused you because you don't have the 9 stamps you need!
Does somebody have to get into a serious accident before this gets raised? Are they waiting for all these 170s to get scrapped to avoid sorting out the issue? And before you say they ARE sorting it out with all these gestures, it means nothing to me because I go to an indy and don't get my dealership loyalty card stamped.
So why can Audi train and certify indy garage technicians, and then turn their back when you use them even though it's a design fault, and nothing to do with the technician's skill.
Anyway, rant over. I'll chase it up to the best of my knowledge and see what happens... worse case scenario, I get another one failing and just pay one last time and offload the car now that I finally have some financial breathing space... I love my 170 but with a wife and 2 kids in there, and long travelling distances, it's a gamble everytime you turn the ignition on at this rate... forget the repair cost... what if it it dies in the middle lane and I get rear ended by a lorry trying to get the anvil to the hard shoulder... I'm not comfortable with this at all.
I don't see why it should make a difference whether it has been main dealer serviced or not as the fuel system is not touched on the service. It's a design fault and a safety issue. Wonder what would be the consequence if someone gets killed as a result ie: overtaking and Audi know it is a design fault and they haven't done a recall.
Audi UK have told me they have NOT accepted this is a known problem. Apprantly just like any part, they will be prone to wear and tear and faults. The fact alot of people with 170s keep getting these replaced is as conincidental as all of us replacing worn clutches.
He told me categorically that if I don't have FULL Audi service history, there is 0% chance any dealership will give me any "goodwill gesture".
He also kindly suggested I go to the local dealership and pay for a diagnostic check to be run on my injectors, and then if I want, pay for 4 of the "improved" (read non-failing) injectors to be put in.
Once again it is about their stamp being in your book. They don't care about the injectors' safety.
Like he said, the injectors failing on all our 170s is just a coincidence. I called 2 dealerships and they said they have 5 customers a week coming in for this replacement. Of course to him, that is no proof there is a fault, just wear and tear.
I need to find out exactly whether this is only on the 170, what exact injector type, what the replacement is, and how many people have had to get them replaced under "good will". This has now made my sh!t list.
There is a diesel injector specialist garage not far from me and the chap there was telling me that they always keep 3 if these injectors on the shelf as it is so common. I would'nt mind if was just me - I'd asy that was just bad luck but it's happened to loads of people. I've already sent an e-mail to bbc watchdog about this - suggest others do the same.
I've emailed the Watchdog and VOSA.
Does anyone know the part number of the affected injectors and the number of the "improved" version please?
Time to find out how many of these have been affected at the dealerships...
I had one fitted in November 2010
The part for that is A03G 130 073 TX
I've been trying to guage the scale of the problem myself - see thread on general info needed.
To anyone else who wants to file a report so that VOSA can investigate this:
Please fill in the form at the bottom of the page. It only takes a few minutes.
How long before someone has an accident ?
Just sent mine to vosa.
Well done for taking the time to get vosa involved.
It is a very common problem across the VAG Marque & M Benz- just check out the other VAG Marque web sites. Also I beleive it is related to manufacturing build ans also to the loom which becomes brittle ! - just do a google ALL the info is out there. .......................................
If you haven't already - please see jfarheads post in thread Injector failures - general info needed
Thanks for putting this on the A3 forum, I have had one injector fail so potentially 3 to go (unless they already have with the previous owner!). I will fill the VOSA form in tomorrow when I get the last service details.
Lets hope we can get somewhere with this :icon_thumright:
I'm fairly sure that the service details part of the form is optional
a 57 plate a4 "brd" engine came in to our place today. same injector fault. glow plug light flashed for about 3 seconds aparently before it cut out.
aa man told them it was the fuel pump! nearly right mr aa man!
no.2 injector this time.
this makes 7 times ive changed an injector on this series of 2.0l tdis. and we're just a vag specialist independant garage. dealers must be inundated with these things!
its not just the injectors that are of a bad design. why, when its just one injector going to earth inside, does the ecu cut power to all of them making the car cut out? seems idiotic to me.
mine failed at 28000 miles, cant say thats wear and tear.......these cars should be able to got at least 100000 miles with very little problems........
another way to keep you extending ur warranty i thinks!!!!
I see more and more of these are coming out of the woodwork, I hope everybody is filling in the VOSA form. It would be superb to get them on board.
I have just had my last one replaced under 100% good will . I will fill in a form as i think that this is important!
Sad to have my first post here be about the fact Australian 170 engines are failing left and right also, and we get the same lack of interest from the dealers, ignoring the OBVIOUS design flaw of the Siemens pizeo injector and loom. I was glad to read on this thread that it seems an upgraded part is used, have been wondering about that.
Here's our link, and one from the Seat UK guys. I would love to see a list of all the forum threads compiled, so we all have an idea of the sheer size of the problem.
103kW/125kw TDI PD Piezo Siemens injector failure thread
Leon FR TDi Injector problem - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum
All damning evidence I'm afraid.
Seems the Seat guys have VOSA on the case:
sticky VAG Injectors VOSA LINK - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum
Hope you guys can please fill out the form as the rest of the 170 drivers in the world are hoping someone can force VAG's hand!!!
Here are the Skoda guys too:
VAG 170 PS Diesel Injector Failures - VOSA action - BRISKODA.net - The Skoda Forum and Community
VRS TDI problems - BRISKODA.net - Page 2 - The Skoda Forum and Community
I am aching to read these links but they're blocked at work, have to wait another 6 hours before I check them out... but yes it would be useful to compile what threads on what forums are chasing this up, by manufacturer... I'm sure there's a whole lot more that we aren't aware of that are possibly alreadydoing something or maybe need a nudge to show them they're not alone in this!
Posted here ...
Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum | Honest John
From a post on vwaudiforum .....
Just recieved a call from VOSA there about my safety report i posted to them, the guy on the phone said they have recieved alot of complaints about the problem and they are pressing Audi for a solution, so if theres anyone out there who's had this problem with injector failure then id say get the info to VOSA, the more info they get the more they can do!!!
Awesome, I had a chance to read through the links and looks like a lot of people are mobilising...
I am tempted to email VAG specialists across the UK to make them aware we are pressing for a response on this independently (as owners) and if they would like to inform anyone who has this fault that action is being taken and they can support it as well...
Anyone think of any cons to doing this? Negative repercussions?
...like me you will pay full price for an injector because of your public condemnation?
It needs to be sorted, and the silence just doesn't cut it.
Wrote to my dealership as well to see what their standpoint was, on paper, in case VAG come back with some lame excuse as to why they consider these vehicles to be safe, the incidents to be a minority and not an issue... the usual stuff.
Any progress on other sites? The issue seems to have stagnated a little bit now while we wait for VAG to respond.
When I went to mine to get the injector replaced they told me that although one injector had failed don't worry because the chances of it happening to another injector were nil - they said they see single injector failures but never another one in the future.
Just sent this off to VOSA, although mine have not failed
I don’t know if I have come to the right division but I own an 2007 Audi A4 2.0 TDI. It’s the 170 BHP version. I understand it’s fitted with the Siemans Piezo Fuel Injectors. I have been reading a lot about fuel injectors on these models and them simply failing and the car shutting down. I find this a frightening thought as what would happen if the injectors should fail on a motorway at speed?
What if my partner is driving and she is unable to control the car due to sudden loss of power as the engine has shut down which would lead to loss of braking and loss of power steering? This could cause an accident or even worse!
Surely this must be a defect the fact that the car shuts down rather than just going into a limp mode?
Your comments would be most welcome as my car has not yet failed do I have to wait for it to fail before anything can be done?
Excellent. The 6 week gap between VOSA contacting VAG and getting a response is annoyingly long. We know for a fact many more are affected and only a fraction actually get on forums, I am just at a loss of how to get in touch with "everyone else". I have written to Audi where I bought my car and I am waiting for a response, not holding my breath, but what they say over the phone and what they put in writing is never the same. I just need something to refer to when the time comes.
If Audi admit there is a design fault, then why were my injectors not replaced before I bought the car (only one faulty one was with the 1st owner). Secondly if you know it is a fault, why are you selling me a faulty vehicle? I bought it "Audi Approved", if I can't trust that, then why should I trust any other services you provide, ie Audi Servicing.
Whatever the response or excuse, we have a fair few people reporting this problem here and I am sure we can come up with evidence to counter whatever lie they will throw at us. We wait... until then, keep the reports coming in, keep bumping remote forums for the time being (sorry if it is annoying anyone) but it's our only effective way of getting people to step forward for the time being.
The issue has stopped me upgrading to the Audi 3.0TDI I had my heart set on, as I can't find any ino that their injectors are any different!
Stoked you guys are taking up the fight for what's right.
Anyone here know where in the UK you can get these Siemens injectors rebuilt? Asking on behalf of the Aussie lads who are forking out $1600 per injector from VAG Australia if they are out of warranty!
Just registered on the site after searching internet re. 2.0 TDI injector problem... I'm sad to say that apparently mine has suddenly developed that same fault Tuesday this week (26th April) on my way to work. Luckily I was doing less than 20mph in morning traffic - didn't avoid causing a bit of a hold up on a busy road in Nottingham while I got some help to push out the way.
It's the 170 s-line Avant, 56 reg. The car I searched long and hard for 2 and half years ago... Gutted to say the least, especially after all the others who've posted recently about the known fault, not to mention the potential bill to follow.
RAC came, diagnosed and towed away to Audi in Nottingham...still waiting to hear the verdict (bank hols and all) but the RAC info. showed fault code 08518 (P2146) 009 supply to injector open circuit... seems to me that it's the same as has been described by many others on here/other sites.
Anyway - interested to hear how anyone else has/is getting on with their dealerships on this. Also on the VOSA stuff which I'll follow up when I get the call from Audi. As soon as I hear anything I'll update.
OK thats a me too, 2006 A4 Avant Quattro 170 S
On Saturday 23rd car died at 60mph on a A road in Aberdeenshire , I came to rest on a blind corner but luckily the cars behind were close enough to slow and stop with me. I got pushed out of danger and towed home.
I got the car recovered to Aberdeen Audi as I have a Warranty Direct franchised warranty, they took a day to look at it and came back with no 4 injector failure . Well I have had one replaced by an independent garage over a year ago and I though it was a one off (But I bought a warranty a to be sure). So I did a quick search and found this thread.
I reported it to VOSA about 9:30 today and they called me at 10:00 wanting the part as it was still in the 'Audi' garage (Important point Audi Garage) awaiting parts, so I gave the OK.
Now I already had a call from Aberdeen Audi on the 27th telling me it would be Friday (29th) at the earliest for a fix due to part avalibility and workshop time.
Got a call at 2pm today telling me the car was ready and all I had to do was pay my excess and pick it up... no mention of VOSA . So I had to ask if VOSA was getting the part , she had 'overheard a conversation' and it was going to them (VOSA told meit was going to Audi in Germany).
I honestly thought that a report to VOSA would be 'filed', the prompt call was because the car was still un-repaied in an Audi garage and they could request the part.
So do the VOSA bit asap .
This is my wife's car and she was driving when the first injector failed, it was 20mph in town. Now she is having second thoughts about using the car as that's 2 injectors to go.
I had an injector replaced about 12 weeks ago. The local Audi garage did it under good will even though it was a year out of warranty. Yesterday I again broke down this time on the outside lane of the motorway. I took the car back to my local Audi garage and they again agreed to fix it under good will. Got a phone call today saying that two had gone this time and that both would be replaced. On checking the fourth injector they noticed that this had already been changed out so that means this has happened on this engine 3 times in four years and 50'000 miles. So to say it is unlikely to happen again is rubbish. The only good thing is I now have no piezo injectors.
On a side note my local Audi garage (Stirling) has been excellent in dealing with these failed injectors. I have had no arguments with them about fixing the injectors and I even got a nice new A4 S-Line as a courtesy car for next to nothing. Not all Audi garages are bad.
What about a facebook page ? - Probably wouldn't do much to strengthen the case but maybe it might be a way
to communicate with more people worldwide ??
Facebook would get more people involved for sure. Just needs a good first page exlaining in as much detail what is going on and it can be maintained every now and then with more links on progress etc...
Still no response from VAG...
Lucky escape for ASL above, 60mph... that's not funny at all
Siemens have always been naff at car components
bring back bosch theres a damn side more quality involved in there injectors
and as for the audi response all car makers will do what ever they can to get out of fixing issues ,
i do think its a disgrace that some are getting replacements and others are not
as already said service history has no effect on the injectors as long as fuel filters have been changed regular .
Is there anyway you can prevent the injectors wiring loom from failing or even change the injectors for improved type . Has anyone actually identified the problem that causes the failing within the injectors ? Is it possible to individually fuse each injector so that one failing does not stop the car ?
When the 170 bhp version of this engine came out Audi were making all sorts of claims for the "NEW Pizo" injectors . Although my car has only done a very low mileage it is now 4.5 years old I don't feel I can trust it for a long run or overtaking . I have emailed VOSA as well .
Have had my audi now since January 10 and have really enjoyed the time I have had it apart from a few little issues resolved quickly the first 6 months where great. Then injector no. 4 failed so out of warrenty of to audi and I was told all 4 had been replaced on good will and that would be the end of it. Untill a week last Sunday (Easter Sunday) when at 55mph the same think happened again light flashes power dies dip the clutch engine stalls all of this with no servo brakes, power steering or engine power came to rest in the middle of a busy cross roads how I managed to steer round everything god knows. I am now glad I decided to drive not my girlfriend we may not be here to get the car fixed. Audi are now refusing to fix it under goodwill and want £1750 to sort out. I will be filling in the vosa form first thing in the morning my worry is that I need to change the other 2 aswell her who must be obayed won't drive it untill I do. Any help assistance I can be to the effort to get audi to fix our cars give me a shout good luck all.