Anybody driven a3 3.2 V6?

colicabcadam said:
you have to remember a 1.8t with 180bhp a3 has no where near the same amount of torque as a 130bhp diesel, the diesel torque s low down and it's grunty, the petrol will be smooth, so there's no real chance of it wheel spinning as easily as a diesel
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True in the case of a standard cars, but the torque delivery of my 1.8T is VERY diesel like indeed, the torque goes from sodd all up to 290lbft in the space of 500rpm, and that's remapped PD130 torque, so well over standard, and i still don't really have much trouble getting it to the ground. sure, 1st gear will spin the wheels up if you're lead footed, but after that, it's really not hard to extract it's full potential.
 
lol at this, Prawnys FWD A3 is awesome and for sheer power to weight for a track car I'd have FWD. FWD Btcc cars kick RWD *** most of the time.

But a quattro in any form, Torsen or Haldex, makes for such an easily usable daily drive that is hard to ignore. If you have BT aspirations s3's are all the more attractive IMO.

v6 a3 wise, dont they have expensive chain problems?
 
Prawn said:
I'm not going to disagree totally, but by your logic, that would suggest that 4wd is purely for fags who can't handle either?

Perhaps you have a point!
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I bought the S3 for my misses to drive ;)

Last car was 420bhp through the rear wheels...
 
Prawn said:
True in the case of a standard cars, but the torque delivery of my 1.8T is VERY diesel like indeed, the torque goes from sodd all up to 290lbft in the space of 500rpm, and that's remapped PD130 torque, so well over standard, and i still don't really have much trouble getting it to the ground. sure, 1st gear will spin the wheels up if you're lead footed, but after that, it's really not hard to extract it's full potential.
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the key difference is that the diesel has instant throttle response, a 1.8t petrol doesn't which will help with the petrols traction imo
 
Prawn said:
I'm not going to disagree totally, but by your logic, that would suggest that 4wd is purely for fags who can't handle either?

Perhaps you have a point!
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Or for utter legends who can easily handle both, although in not going to totally endorse that given my track record.
 
colicabcadam said:
yes a 180 tt fwd
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So not an A3 then. A TT will have the hugely oversensitive ESP anyway, but I shouldnt have thought the TT would have spun up? My car is 230bhp+ and FWD and on a GOOD set of tires I would struggle to spin the wheels even in the wet unless I was a lead footed muppet about it. On my £30 a corner 3 year.old budgets it really is a struggle to keep it in a straight line, but it isnt as though the S3 isn't a hugely tyre dependant platform either. On the wrong tires they are TERRIBLE.

Given the massive weight advantage the A3 is a much better platform than it is ever given credit for. In the hands of a competent driver a -200bhp A3 can be quicker round the track than an Audi R8 for instance. (Prawns lap times of Combe compared to an R8 on the day).
 
16Klappe said:
200bhp A3 can be quicker round the track than an Audi R8 for instance. (Prawns lap times of Combe compared to an R8 on the day).
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....and i'm sure in the hands of a competant driver the R8 would smash a 200bhp A3 into next week.
 
beanoir said:
....and i'm sure in the hands of a competant driver the R8 would smash a 200bhp A3 into next week.
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Agreed, but the point I am making is that 4WD and power means **** all if you can't drive. A certain amount of it is down to chassis, and a FWD A3 has a more than good enough chassis to be quite an embarissing car in the right hands. On the road and actually driving, I would lay down the challenge and say there isnt a single stage 1 S3 which would be quicker than my car (for instance) point to point in the hands of the same driver.


Nobody is saying 4wd is ****, but FWD in my eyes should not be seen as a disadvantage on a sub 300bhp car.
 
16Klappe said:
So not an A3 then. A TT will have the hugely oversensitive ESP anyway, but I shouldnt have thought the TT would have spun up? My car is 230bhp+ and FWD and on a GOOD set of tires I would struggle to spin the wheels even in the wet unless I was a lead footed muppet about it. On my £30 a corner 3 year.old budgets it really is a struggle to keep it in a straight line, but it isnt as though the S3 isn't a hugely tyre dependant platform either. On the wrong tires they are TERRIBLE.

Given the massive weight advantage the A3 is a much better platform than it is ever given credit for. In the hands of a competent driver a -200bhp A3 can be quicker round the track than an Audi R8 for instance. (Prawns lap times of Combe compared to an R8 on the day).
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bhp does not create wheel spins though, torque and throttle response does and anything i am talking about is with esp turned off, if anyone on here is trying to say their turbo petrol has the same throttle response as a diesel turbo they'd be mad, the diesels i have driven have no lag, the petrols i have driven do!

the only reason an a3 is lighter is because it lacks a prop shaft, a haldex unit, a rear diff and, a rear axel, i suppose these all weigh in at 150kg? (i really have not got a clue) which leaves another 50kg to come off from simple things like leather seats, larger intercoolers, i've even sure the wheels would weigh more etc
 
16Klappe said:
Agreed, but the point I am making is that 4WD and power means **** all if you can't drive. A certain amount of it is down to chassis, and a FWD A3 has a more than good enough chassis to be quite an embarissing car in the right hands. On the road and actually driving, I would lay down the challenge and say there isnt a single stage 1 S3 which would be quicker than my car (for instance) point to point in the hands of the same driver.


Nobody is saying 4wd is ****, but FWD in my eyes should not be seen as a disadvantage on a sub 300bhp car.
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I see what you're saying, but for the additional weight disadvantage of an S3 over a A3 with the same power it's still too close to call assuming you have the same "capable" driver in each car. If you're in the wet, or on loose surface then i'd put my money on the S3 all day long, on a dry tarmac circuit, then it'd be much closer but i'm not sure it would be far either way. So if I had the choice of a 300bhp hatchback that I was driving on the roads then i'd want AWD, if I was racing on a tarmac track i'd want RWD. I'm not sure i'd ever choose to have a FWD for any application.

Incidently, tyre choice would make much more difference on a track than 150kg weight advantage would.

And in any event, this is a pointless conversation because the occasional Sunday at Coombe doesnt make any of us qualify as capable racing drivers in the slightest.
 
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beanoir said:
And in any event, this is a pointless conversation because the occasional Sunday at Coombe doesnt make any of us qualify as capable racing drivers in the slightest.
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No, you need a feck off trophy cabinet for that one!

Lets be sensible for a minute here, our comparisons are flawed from the outset, because we're comparing standard to modified, with different drivers, so the results are fairly meaningless.

I think the point Jarrod is trying to get across, (which I spent years arguing, then eventually gave up when i realised nobody was listening) is that the FWD chassis is so looked down on by S3 owners, when in reality, it deserves far more credit than it gets.

There's such a snobby attitude towards the 'poor mans S3', where people seem to think that they MUST have 4wd to deal with their almighty 260bhp.

The honest truth though, is that 90% of us arn't using the cars we DO have anywhere even close to their potential, so all bragging rights are meaningless.

I've said for years that I could get my A3 from A-B quicker than any stock turbo'd S3, regardless of other mods, and as far as I'm concened, until such time as I get overtaken on track by an S3, that point stands.
 
Prawn said:
No, you need a feck off trophy cabinet for that one!

Lets be sensible for a minute here, our comparisons are flawed from the outset, because we're comparing standard to modified, with different drivers, so the results are fairly meaningless.

I think the point Jarrod is trying to get across, (which I spent years arguing, then eventually gave up when i realised nobody was listening) is that the FWD chassis is so looked down on by S3 owners, when in reality, it deserves far more credit than it gets.

There's such a snobby attitude towards the 'poor mans S3', where people seem to think that they MUST have 4wd to deal with their almighty 260bhp.

The honest truth though, is that 90% of us arn't using the cars we DO have anywhere even close to their potential, so all bragging rights are meaningless.

I've said for years that I could get my A3 from A-B quicker than any stock turbo'd S3, regardless of other mods, and as far as I'm concened, until such time as I get overtaken on track by an S3, that point stands.
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i am on your side lol

i just know for a fact that bellow 30, maybe even 50, an awd will make more use of the power and avoid wheel slippage !
 
Well you have the car for it Dane, strip it out and try to fly the four wheel flag! :p

30mph is far too high, 10mph or a standing start maybe but above 10mph and once rolling an A3 would be quicker. My car does GPS timed 0 to 60 on £30 tires in 5.8 seconds with a full interior, on good tires that would be closer to 5.5.
 
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colicabcadam said:
i am on your side lol

i just know for a fact that bellow 30, maybe even 50, an awd will make more use of the power and avoid wheel slippage !
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Agreed. at low speeds it will get the power down more effectively. I wouldn't ever claim to get no wheel spin at all, simply that high powered FWD cars arn't the nightmare they're made out to be, and it can be 'driven around' so to speak.


Dane, if you want to take me up on that challange, I'd be delighted! It'd be fun!
I'll be at Brands on Jan 27th, Rockingham on March 17th, and probably many other TD's next year :) as well as the Ring of course.
 
Prawn said:
Lets be sensible for a minute here, our comparisons are flawed from the outset, because we're comparing standard to modified, with different drivers, so the results are fairly meaningless.
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Agreed.

Prawn said:
I've said for years that I could get my A3 from A-B quicker than any stock turbo'd S3, regardless of other mods, and as far as I'm concened, until such time as I get overtaken on track by an S3, that point stands.
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Then you say this?!

It's down to a driver ability more than a car to be honest, much more. I've never looked down on an A3 and wouldn't to be honest, but I know for a fact that in real world driving (i.e. not on track days) then a AWD car will generally be a faster point to point option in the hands of an average driver in average weather. If I wanted a track car it wouldn't have an Audi badge.


I'm not standing up for AWD or S3s being the best option, in fact far from it. I bought one for the reason above, good reliable car in the poor weather etc etc.

However, aside from all this i'm not sure the OP really cares does he?
 
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Yes he does care! Its all interesting, my a3 IS faster than any of the stage 1 s3s i've driven but for where I live you can make the most of the s3 more, better grip and awd is very useful come winter... Also BT is an option and I know which platform i'd prefer to do it in, as much as I love my a3 thats not going to happen!
 
slowcoach3 said:
Yes he does care! Its all interesting, my a3 IS faster than any of the stage 1 s3s i've driven but for where I live you can make the most of the s3 more, better grip and awd is very useful come winter... Also BT is an option and I know which platform i'd prefer to do it in, as much as I love my a3 thats not going to happen!
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Precisely my point, sorry to elaborate on my point I was meaning do you care if it's a track day car? If you do then fair play, it's all useful info. If not I agree with what you're saying about an S3 being more beneficial in the real world.

Oh and for the record, my experience of owning an 8P chassis is it is a lot more refined than the 8L chassis, feels much more sure footed, a bit more modern and interior is nicer. The V6 is a lovely engine but it does have some niggles that you should know about, there is plenty of info documented about this in the 8P forum and in fact I think there is a whole thread dedicated to the 3.2 if my memory serves me correct.
 
It isn't just on a track though, 90% of the time the Haldex system is dead weight and is operating as an FWD anyway. Blatting along a wet B road you WILL NOT need the 4WD and you won't get to a point where you need it unless you are driving to a level where you should be on the track or are a lead footed muppet.

The points that are being made that on a hard launch the S3 won't spin up, but it will still spin the wheels until it senses the wheel spin and decides to open up the haldex and go into "4wd" mode. But then it's going to be bogged down, and through second and upwards it'll be slow as. My car (for instance) as a strong stage 2 car is quicker than a 275BHP S3 in a straight line, and obviously at a massive advantage in the corners due to it's weight.

And the point that it's good in the snow or muddy surfaces, yeah fair point in those situations it must be a godsend. But quite frankly I've never been stuck in the snow, and compared to a PROPER 4WD it's crap.

As Prawn makes reference to the "stock turbo" I totally agree, my car will NEVER be matched in terms of performance by a stock turbo'd S3 regardless of traction.

If you guys went in Prawns car your opinions would be changed, you are simply and quite rudely put (so sorry for this because I don't mean it personally!) uneducated and narrow minded because of it. The speeds Prawns car is capable of maintaining is truly astonishing, I've been out with him in the wet and I've literally been begging him to slow down because it was terrifying.

To put it into round figures, unless you have over 300BHP in my opinion FWD or RWD is the way forwards. AWD is just too lazy and heavy to warrant the low power figures.
 
The A3 vs S3 debate still rages on..... Spending 2-3k on an A3 to go faster than a 300-400quid remapped S3 is no achievement

polls_cookie4_640_4234_949112_poll_xlarge.jpeg
 
16Klappe said:
It isn't just on a track though, 90% of the time the Haldex system is dead weight and is operating as an FWD anyway. Blatting along a wet B road you WILL NOT need the 4WD and you won't get to a point where you need it unless you are driving to a level where you should be on the track or are a lead footed muppet.

The points that are being made that on a hard launch the S3 won't spin up, but it will still spin the wheels until it senses the wheel spin and decides to open up the haldex and go into "4wd" mode. But then it's going to be bogged down, and through second and upwards it'll be slow as. My car (for instance) as a strong stage 2 car is quicker than a 275BHP S3 in a straight line, and obviously at a massive advantage in the corners due to it's weight.

And the point that it's good in the snow or muddy surfaces, yeah fair point in those situations it must be a godsend. But quite frankly I've never been stuck in the snow, and compared to a PROPER 4WD it's crap.

As Prawn makes reference to the "stock turbo" I totally agree, my car will NEVER be matched in terms of performance by a stock turbo'd S3 regardless of traction.

If you guys went in Prawns car your opinions would be changed, you are simply and quite rudely put (so sorry for this because I don't mean it personally!) uneducated and narrow minded because of it. The speeds Prawns car is capable of maintaining is truly astonishing, I've been out with him in the wet and I've literally been begging him to slow down because it was terrifying.

To put it into round figures, unless you have over 300BHP in my opinion FWD or RWD is the way forwards. AWD is just too lazy and heavy to warrant the low power figures.
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....yawn
 
16Klappe said:
It isn't just on a track though, 90% of the time the Haldex system is dead weight and is operating as an FWD anyway. Blatting along a wet B road you WILL NOT need the 4WD and you won't get to a point where you need it unless you are driving to a level where you should be on the track or are a lead footed muppet.

The points that are being made that on a hard launch the S3 won't spin up, but it will still spin the wheels until it senses the wheel spin and decides to open up the haldex and go into "4wd" mode. But then it's going to be bogged down, and through second and upwards it'll be slow as. My car (for instance) as a strong stage 2 car is quicker than a 275BHP S3 in a straight line, and obviously at a massive advantage in the corners due to it's weight.

And the point that it's good in the snow or muddy surfaces, yeah fair point in those situations it must be a godsend. But quite frankly I've never been stuck in the snow, and compared to a PROPER 4WD it's crap.

As Prawn makes reference to the "stock turbo" I totally agree, my car will NEVER be matched in terms of performance by a stock turbo'd S3 regardless of traction.

If you guys went in Prawns car your opinions would be changed, you are simply and quite rudely put (so sorry for this because I don't mean it personally!) uneducated and narrow minded because of it. The speeds Prawns car is capable of maintaining is truly astonishing, I've been out with him in the wet and I've literally been begging him to slow down because it was terrifying.

To put it into round figures, unless you have over 300BHP in my opinion FWD or RWD is the way forwards. AWD is just too lazy and heavy to warrant the low power figures.
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Jardo I admire you constantly standing up to annoy people, and I cant be bothered to analyse every last bit of this comment, BUT: if you spent as much on an s3 and did the same things as prawn has done and spent on his a3 (buying the car aside) you would have an epic s3, that would be quick in the wet and dry both on track and on the road.

And to go along with the wheel spinning thing, I followed Jay A3 (from here) off a set of lights last week, and because it was damp and greasy, I could push him all the way to well past 60, despite him having at least 4bhp more then me. I know he ain't the Stig, or even James May, but in the damp/wet 4wd for the win.
 
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finesse said:
The A3 vs S3 debate still rages on..... Spending 2-3k on an A3 to go faster than a 300-400quid remapped S3 is no achievement
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We've covered this a thousand times before, but I'll say it once more in simple form:
For a given budget, a FASTER car could be built from an A3 than an S3.

cheap mapped S3: £3k + £250 map = £3250 circa 240-250bhp. 1450kg, so 165-172bhp/ton

Prefacelift A3 £1k, £250 on a ko3S, £200 on FMIC, £100 on 3'' DP/decat, £300 on Rtech st2. £200 on jamex coilovers, £250 on eibach ARB's, £200 on 312 discs and carriers, £200 on some used S3 wheels and tyres. circa 225-230 bhp and 1240kgs, so 181-185bhp/ton.

You get a quicker car, that costs less, and also handles and stops better. Hell, you could even spend the spare cash on an S3 interior if you were so inclined....

beanoir said:
a AWD car will generally be a faster point to point option in the hands of an average driver in average weather.
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But the problem is, who really wants to be average? that's the thing.

It's worth pointing out, I held this view LONG before I even thought about building an A3 track car, it applies for normal road cars too, ask Sportstractor about that one.....

My A3, when in it's road going form, cost less to buy and build than his stage 1 S3 cost to buy, and yea, I got the typical 'poor mans S3' and 'wrong wheel drive' comments, then proceeded to drive around the outside of him at Aremburg in the pouring rain...

For lazy people who live down icy roads then the S3's fake 4wd system is great.

For a more involving driving experience the FWD with a few cheap mods is simply better.

I don't like this argument though, we've done it a thousand times before and believe it or not, I love S3's! I think they're great, I just feel the haldex 4wd system is a huge let down, everything else about them is wicked.

and for that reason, I'm out!

Enjoy folks.
 
True, track car does have the LSD, but then again, the Daily doesn't, and that goes round the Ring in sub 9 minutes, which I'm yet to see any of the S3 crew equal.....
 
damn. I said I was out, yet here I am again! grrrrrrrrrrrr.............

Love you all really!
 
s3dave said:
Dont forget Prawns as the awesome LSD....:icon_thumright:
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Prawns was fast BEFORE it had the LSD, the LSD has only been done recently. I know we are talking about road work not track, but when my tires got hot at ADI after 4/5 laps there wasn't an S3 in sight, and no S3 got past me even with cold tires which shows the LSD isn't something you need until you reach the level Nicks car has. I've learnt, that learning to drive is worth more than any amount spent on the car.

We all saw the distance Prawn pulled out at ADI, he lapped the entire field (bar myself) within 7 laps ***.
 
Prawn said:
It's worth pointing out, I held this view LONG before I even thought about building an A3 track car, it applies for normal road cars too, ask Sportstractor about that one.....

My A3, when in it's road going form, cost less to buy and build than his stage 1 S3 cost to buy, and yea, I got the typical 'poor mans S3' and 'wrong wheel drive' comments, then proceeded to drive around the outside of him at Aremburg in the pouring rain...
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Lol it's true, although I think you would have more of a job now it's setup properly, if you'l cast your mind back, you will remember there was a stupid amount of oversteer coming from it.

But I think if you spent similar money and effort on mods, not including initial cost of car, you would have a pretty wicked s3.

Another thing worth noting, is drivers like Jardo can push there cars to limit alot more because they have alot less to lose... No one is going to be too gutted about a 1k car and do you think his family would miss him... I don't....




:p
 
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