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any1 else have a prob switchin from 17's to 18's?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by pure, Oct 19, 2003.

  1. pure

    pure Member

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    Managed to get a set of 18" RS4's with new tyres for £700 which I am chuffed about, what I have noticed tho, on the standard 17"'s and tyres from the dealers, I could corner at much greater speeds without the esp kicking in.

    On the 18's I can easily throw the backend of the car out on the same corners with / without the esp...

    Could it be the tyres that are on them? Do I need to do anything to the wheels (Spacers or something on the rears?). Seems quite strange :-/

    On the other side, the car looks great, they fill the arches miles better than the Avus wheels. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked2.gif
     
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  3. pure

    pure Member

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    changed the profile pic.

    <----- car with new wheels over there.

    Cant upload to gallerie as they are too big in size /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  4. AndyMac

    AndyMac Moderator
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    must be the tyres. What have you swtched between? I guess at that price you've skimped on the tyres?
     
  5. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    Personally, I'd put the Toyo's top...but I'll admit to never actually owning a set myself, but I've driven on a few sets...I personally feel the Toyo's offer a little more feedback on the limit, perhaps they are just a little softer.
    Both are great in the wet.

    I don't rate Michelin Pilot's either...any of 'em...not predictable enough on the limit. Grip, grip, break away. Not good.

    I don't rate the Yokohama stuff much there days either...the seemed to peak with the A51 & 008R...all the recent stuff has been a poor relation.

    Never found a Pirelli I've liked either...but I've not tried P Zero Corsas. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Bridgestone RE71s used to be good in bygone times...the standard fit RE040s were not bad compared to the Avons / Pirellis that could have been fitted (and also get fitted by Audi)

    Come to think of it...I'd be lost without Toyo T1-Ss!!
     
  6. pure

    pure Member

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    Do you think the wheel place where I bought the wheels/tyres will swap them? Ive only done about 100 miles on them so far.
     
  7. acf8181

    acf8181 Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    Personally, I'd put the Toyo's top...but I'll admit to never actually owning a set myself, but I've driven on a few sets...I personally feel the Toyo's offer a little more feedback on the limit, perhaps they are just a little softer.
    Both are great in the wet.

    I don't rate Michelin Pilot's either...any of 'em...not predictable enough on the limit. Grip, grip, break away. Not good.

    I don't rate the Yokohama stuff much there days either...the seemed to peak with the A51 & 008R...all the recent stuff has been a poor relation.

    Never found a Pirelli I've liked either...but I've not tried P Zero Corsas. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Bridgestone RE71s used to be good in bygone times...the standard fit RE040s were not bad compared to the Avons / Pirellis that could have been fitted (and also get fitted by Audi)

    Come to think of it...I'd be lost without Toyo T1-Ss!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    i haven't used toyo's myself either. i never notice when tyres have a sudden breakaway...it just doesn't bother me. but thats not sayin you're wrong...actually, i'm sure i've heard that toyo's have a more violantbreakaway than the goodyears, and also that they wear quicker.
     
  8. acf8181

    acf8181 Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    pure said:
    Do you think the wheel place where I bought the wheels/tyres will swap them? Ive only done about 100 miles on them so far.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    seriously doubt it. you could try sellin them to a part-worn tyre place, or on ebay - but you won't get that much for them.

    its upto you, can you stand using them till they wear out, then get better stuff. or will you crash if you don't get new ones right now!!! persoanlly, i'd go on money - if you can afford it, change them.
     
  9. MingBluS3

    MingBluS3 Member

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    I dont think its anything to do with the tyres, i had the same problem switching from 17's 18's, i do think the original 17's handled much better and gave better feel, when i nail it i get the same rear end problem also a slight judder on tight corners this is down to the bigger size. Plus the 17's had more wall and edge to the tyres which means you can go in harder, i always feel like my 40's are going to slip off or hit the rim..

     
  10. pure

    pure Member

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    Hmmm, think I will just drive em till I need to replace em and get better ones. Not like I hammer the car much anyways, and I mostly do Motorway miles. Plus it only seems that they aint as good in the wet, in the dry they feel the same. Ill put up with em for 20k or so. Cheers for all the replies.

    While I'm on the subject, anyone want a set of AVUS 17's that were fitted on the car in the factory? Open to offers...PM me if you are. I've only done 1500miles on them, they are unmarked.
     
  11. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    acf8181 said:
    i haven't used toyo's myself either. i never notice when tyres have a sudden breakaway...it just doesn't bother me.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well lets just say that a tyre that grips...then just lets go, it can cause alarm. If it lets go quickly and with non of the tell tale squirming / sliding / squealing that gives you some warning, you will very soon find yourself facing the other way. I would have though that would bother you. It bothers me.

    I value feedback from a tyre if I'm going to push it to the limit and beyond.

    Of course, each driver is different.


    [ QUOTE ]

    but thats not sayin you're wrong...actually, i'm sure i've heard that toyo's have a more violantbreakaway than the goodyears, and also that they wear quicker.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I just don't agree. I have never had a Toyo T1-S breakaway...that's over 5 different cars and many different sizes / profiles.
    Don't get me wrong...the Goodyears are a great tyre...but I feel the Toyo is just a little more predictable...and in my opinion they break away progressively and proportionally.
     
  12. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    MingBluS3 said:
    I dont think its anything to do with the tyres, i had the same problem switching from 17's 18's, i do think the original 17's handled much better and gave better feel,


    [/ QUOTE ]

    ..and what make of tyres are you running on your 18s?
     
  13. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    pure said:
    Managed to get a set of 18" RS4's with new tyres for £700 which I am chuffed about, what I have noticed tho, on the standard 17"'s and tyres from the dealers, I could corner at much greater speeds without the esp kicking in.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm wondering how the weight of the RS4 type wheels affects the handling.
    We were discussing this on a prior thread some weeks ago...but never got a weight for an 18" RS4 type wheel and tyre.

    If the RS4s are much heavier than standard, this could affect the handling in the ways you say. Unles someone posts the weight though...it's all guess work.

    I know from my experience that 18" BBS RSiis with Pirelli tyres are lighter than standard Avus wheels with Bridgestone tyres....which is surprising!


    [ QUOTE ]

    On the 18's I can easily throw the backend of the car out on the same corners with / without the esp...


    [/ QUOTE ]

    But with ESP being related to grip / forces generated by grip or it's lack of, it stll points me to believe that the tyres are the main contributing force here.
     
  14. MingBluS3

    MingBluS3 Member

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    Michelin Pilot Sports, but i've just got hold of the PS2 version, i dont like the tread pattern but i've had a response back from Michelin stating that they are just fine.

    this is from Michelin
    -------
    Thank you for your recent e-mail.

    The tyre we would expect to see on your Audi S3 would be the 225/40 R18 Pilot Sport TL 88Y but this is being gradually replaced with the Pilot Sport PS2 TL 92Y which is a superior handling tyre and should be fitted in a minimum of axle sets with the new to the rear
     
  15. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    Yeah...305 ish in normal mode (270 BHP)...332 lb-ft in daft mode (275 BHP).

    Tuned by Star Performance and me, using APR re-map, Forge Motorsport ICs and a lot of time fettling!
     
  16. MingBluS3

    MingBluS3 Member

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    that's up north innit.
     
  17. mramage

    mramage Member

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    This has been interesting reading, because I had advertised and then withdrawn my 17s from sale.
    Didn't want to have to compromise on tyres and I was getting a little worried by weight and the risk of bent wheels through cross country runs.
     
  18. DavidR

    DavidR Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    MingBluS3 said:
    that's up north innit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, Fife, Scotland
     
  19. MingBluS3

    MingBluS3 Member

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    Well i heard that the RS6 can bend the alloys. If you ask me, the S3 is still a very heavy car for such a low profile tyre on 18's, i always worry about bending mine which is ridiculous.

     
  20. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    There is no need to worry about the weight of the S3, providing the load index of the tyre is sufficiently high as to allow for use on a heavy vehicle, there will be no issues.

    With regard to bending wheels:
    Some wheels bend easier than others/
    Cheap wheels bend more easily than properly engineered more expensive wheels.

    Going from experience, high quality wheels such as BBS are incredibly strong.
    I managed to break a front strut on my previous Mk3 Golf GTI be hitting a pothole with a 17" BBS RX and a 205/40/17 tyre (less meat there than on a 225/40/40 to absorb the impact). The strut was badly bent..the wheel was less than 0.4 mm out or round in any direction.

    Do no be worried about bending decent quality wheels.

    What concerns me more, is the quality of some of the replica available...how strong are they?
    Wheels being made by relatively unknown companies tend - and I use this phrase carefully - to be weaker and heavier than a camparable 'quality' wheel.

    You pays yer money and makes yer choice...

    But I've been driving on 40 series rubber on BBS wheels for over 8 years now (4 different cars) and I've never bent a wheel...despite driving flat out on some of the worst roads in the UK!
     
  21. acf8181

    acf8181 Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    acf8181 said:
    i haven't used toyo's myself either. i never notice when tyres have a sudden breakaway...it just doesn't bother me.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well lets just say that a tyre that grips...then just lets go, it can cause alarm. If it lets go quickly and with non of the tell tale squirming / sliding / squealing that gives you some warning, you will very soon find yourself facing the other way. I would have though that would bother you. It bothers me.

    I value feedback from a tyre if I'm going to push it to the limit and beyond.

    Of course, each driver is different.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    is true, i race a bit...so any road tyre is forgiving/gives lots of feedback in comparison to a race tyre.
     
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  23. acf8181

    acf8181 Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    What concerns me more, is the quality of some of the replica available...how strong are they?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    i'm interested in this point too. you've gotta think the replica's are gonna be weaker than the real mccoy from audi!
     
  24. philsudbury

    philsudbury Member

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    I recently upgraded to some 18" RSTT's. I was going to get some replicas but Montys had just got some originals in so I went for them. The replicas do weigh more but there's not much in it, side by side you can quite easily see the originals are better quality tho..

    The first replica I was shown in the shop had a pretty obvious defect too...
     
  25. acf8181

    acf8181 Member

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    how much did they set you back?
     
  26. pilotboy

    pilotboy New Member

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    I have just upgraded my wheels from the standard Avus to the RSTT's. I bought them from VAG PARTS, for the 4 wheels, centre caps and postage it set me back £1650.

    Plus the £500 pound for a set of goodyear eagle F1 (GSD3's)
    All in all an expensive month.

    I decided to go for the originals due to the quality difference and the basic fact that they are originals.
     
  27. philsudbury

    philsudbury Member

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    I paid £1150 for the originals + avon zz1 tyres. Not the best tyres but hey ho - wont last long!!!
     
  28. acf8181

    acf8181 Member

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    avon zz1's = they have to be the least shock absorbing tyre i've ever used!

    but that's a good price for original's - if they are 18"s (and not 17"s).
     

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