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Any Radiator experts out there?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by jojo, Dec 4, 2010.

  1. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 4, 2010]
    OK, I need a quickish answer really, as need the problem rectified ASAP!

    Just got a quote of £2200 to have 10 radiator panels with thermostatic vavles fitted along with the plumbing of completely new copper piping over 3 floors for my shop/flat above. Also included in the price is the replacement of a pressure release valve on my combi boiler.

    Is this a reasonable price?

    Basically, I have a modern high capacity combi boiler mated to a prehistoric central heating system(30 years old wouldn't be far off!), and it need a repair every year, so this is the long term solution.
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  3. CMD
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    CMD Pointing Forward's!!!!!!!!!

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    [Dec 4, 2010]
    That's a fare price, Jo are the new rad's double convecter's os single rad's ?
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  4. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 5, 2010]
    2 are double, the rest are single, but they are not small panels, quite large ones mostly.
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  5. antmax7
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    antmax7 Member

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    [Dec 5, 2010]
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  6. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 5, 2010]
    Don't know much about rads to start buying them myself, the guy seems genuine enough, he fitted the combi boiler in the first place, and apart from wear and tear, I don't think it's let me down. What he is adamant is, the age of the old plumbing and rads is effecting the combi, plus the routing of all the pipes is pretty ****, hence the full change. He reckons it will save me maintenance and gas in the long run, so I'm after a second opinion on here.

    Like the idea of the Magnaclean filter thing, I will enquire about that! Cheers.
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  7. antmax7
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    antmax7 Member

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    [Dec 5, 2010]
    the magna clean is a must in my opinion fella
    as for the rads have you had a detailed written quote from him?
    if so the rad sizes should be on there
    also try getting a few quotes from other people the price difference can be massive in trade
    also another point is do you really need to have copper pipe for the heating have you considered john guest speedfit??????
    it is cheaper and quicker to install.
    just a few things for you to think about
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  8. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 5, 2010]
    Not had a detailed written quote mate, he wrote down everything and kept the it! I think he said Honeywell stats aswell, said they are more reliable. I think he's just going with like for like replacement here with the copper piping, I'll ask him about the JG speedfit things though.
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  9. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    [Dec 5, 2010]
    yep thats not bad at all, especially considering fitting copper takes 3x longer than plastic. I too would recommend magnaclean, I fit them for many customers as they have a great visual effect, they pick up so much metallic sludge its unreal.

    I would also specify a decent quality radiator as the paint quality varies massively... I have too often see 5 year old radiators rusting. Stelrad are the best in my opinion, well worth the extra £10 per radiator

    On newer condensing boilers you want to achieve a 20 degree drop between the flow and return so that the boiler is able to condensate and work at its highest efficency. New radiators will go a long way to achieving it.
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  10. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 5, 2010]
    Thanks for the replies guys, I'm more at ease with the quote now, even though I'll try a cheeky 'any cheaper' over the phone before I confirm the work to be done. That Magnaclean filter system sounds like a must have for my system, I mean 10 panels over 3 floors is a lotta water.
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  11. Nilz
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    Nilz Defo worth the wait :)

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    [Dec 5, 2010]
    Dude, ive text you a number, he is a really good, honest and genuine guy, let him know you got the number from me, he should be able to get you a price and idea of what you need done.

    Hope that helps....

    Let me know how you get on.
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  12. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 6, 2010]
    Got the number mate, but I need the work done asap, so didn't get round to calling him up. Soz.

    OK, all booked in for tomorrow morning to start work, the guy couldn't move on the price, as he's bringing 3 guys in to complete the work for me in one day, but I did mention the Magnaclean filter to him, and he said they are around £100 and he will fit one for me as part of the deal at no extra cost, so I got something extra.
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  13. Nilz
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    Nilz Defo worth the wait :)

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  14. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 9, 2010]
    Well, the rads are all in, and the boiler guy fills it all up and fires up the boiler..... eeeer, there's a problem Joe, I think your heat exchanger is knackered! There's was steam coming out of it when it fired up, which isn't suppose to be a good thing! So £2.2k lighter and no heating in the building, though he reluctantly let me keep the hot water running, he said he wasn't suppose to....

    I'm now an official hater of combi boilers, the most unreliable thing ever, I never had any of these problems when I had a crappy boiler system with gravity water pressure for 10 years+, never even serviced the thing, but I thought I'd modernise the place(and maybe save me some gas) 6 years ago, and got this blasted thing fitted. So another bill for £1k+ for a new boiler time, as the heat exchanger is £475+vat plus labour on top to fit it! :(

    Merry Xmas everyone.
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  15. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    What make and model Is the boiler? Is it the primary heat exchanger or the secondary? Steam is weird.

    Dude if you want a reliable combi check out intergas, only 4 moving parts! There is no diverter valve or secondary heatexchanger to break which is the norm. I haven't had a chance to fit one myself but the theory is good and iv heard good things from other installers.
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  16. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 9, 2010]
    It's a Valliant Eco 8... something.

    Can't answer the primary or secondary part as I know jack about combi's, the steam is coming out the huge metal cylinder thing that sits at the top, the main part apparently. I do have a small suspicion I'm being done over if I'm being honest, the timing of it all is just canny, but what can I do?

    The guy that did the rads is the same guy that fitted the combi, and he has serviced it annually, so I see no reason for him to rip me off, but he cancelled an apparent 'not important job' for me tomorrow to fit a new boiler for me in the morning. And since I'm getting a new one, I just fired the old one up with steam coming out just to warm the place up, since I don't care if it break, it still functions!

    Anyone who knows more can give me some pointers? Why does it work, yet it's classed as broke? Just looks like a leaking seal to me, but he says it's rotted and broke... ROTTED? looks like aluminium to me lol
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  17. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    [Dec 9, 2010]
    must have pin holes in it, causing a spray and producing steam. It must be very slowly dropping pressure. The heat exchangers are usually aluminium but they do corrode, somehow. It will work, but will just get worse. Its probably been going and when he drained it down it had disturbed it and now leaking... car rads also tend to do the same thing after being drained.

    Not all bad, most new boilers now have stainless heatexchangers which tend to be guarenteed for 10 years.
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  18. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 9, 2010]
    Also, would it be bad of me to ask for the old boiler back, I can see a few things easily salvageable like the Valliant branded water pump and other bits and bobs I can see him reusing... I'm just trying to be an arsehole after getting raped for 3 big ones over a water leak!
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  19. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    [Dec 9, 2010]
    Ha... He might get a but funny about that. Probably wouldn't recommend it if you want to stay on good terms. After all he's not getting the whole 3k lol.

    I once had a bloke throw a tantrum at me because I took his copper cylinder... Lol. Needless to say I haven't bothered rushing round his to do more work.
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  20. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 10, 2010]
    Well, the guys a miracle worker, said it will take 4hrs, and did it in 2.5 with his mate. So I now have a fully functional central heating system, and a new combi with 2 years manufacturers warranty, which is the good part. But I'm £3.5k lighter, and running in the red for Xmas, which isn't a great thing at this time of year.

    He took the old boiler away naturally, but left me with all the boxes and stuff from the new boiler, which is damned annoying!
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  21. fingermouse
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    fingermouse thats me

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    [Dec 10, 2010]
    new boilers don`t seem to last like the old ones, I have a old old worchester boiler think it must be 26 years old now. Ive repaired it a few times but nothing serious. The guy in the shop said as long as its working stick with it as a new one will be lucky to see 8 years :(
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  22. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 10, 2010]
    The replacement is a Worcester made by Bosch, the boiler man reckon I will get 15 years out of it with the Magnaclean filter thing installed, I live and hope.
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  23. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    [Dec 10, 2010]
    No they won't last anywhere near. Due to being massively more complicated, and the fact there condensing makes them wear more. Think the average for a new condensing boiler is about 12 years.

    Worcester Bosch are good! You have a quality boiler there. Don't blame him for leaving cardboard, it's a fecking nightmare to get rid of.
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  24. fingermouse
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    fingermouse thats me

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    [Dec 11, 2010]
    if I get my palnning permission for next year then a new boiler might be on the cards, I was looking at Worcester Bosch they cost a bit more but I suppose you get what you pay for
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  25. antmax7
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    antmax7 Member

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    [Dec 11, 2010]
    its like anything these days you can get one that's been made on a monday morning or Friday afternoon that will break all time or you can get one that lasts for ever.
    the main thing that kills them especially when they have been fitted to old systems is that most people do not flush the system out to get rid of all the sludge!
    and you must have inhibitor ini the system this should be done every year when the boiler is serviced!
    i have a vaillant condensing combi boiler myself i choose this because they are a very gd brand on a par if not slightly better than worcester Bosch.
    and the htw output was better on the vaillant than the bosch
    for the extra £100 the twin magnaclean is a must the standard one only gets the metallic particles out of the system the twin gets every particle out of the system!!!!!
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  26. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 11, 2010]
    Sugar, I don't think I got the twin one!
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  27. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    [Dec 11, 2010]
    Vailliant are ok. Only hassle i found is that they are one of the worst to contact should you need it. I must try one of those twin units, although I'm sure a normal one is sufficient. Jojo you have nothing to worry about as you have a brand new system
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  28. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 11, 2010]
    Well, I only have experience of Valliant, and given the nature of my business, the thing lasted 6 years, but the damage was blamed on the crud in the old central heating system, which seems that a few of you would agree on. I'd be more than happy if the new one lasted for 6years+, that's where I stand with combi boilers, but like you say, it's a complete new system, with a inline filter fitted, so can only be a good thing. Boiler man reckons I should get 15 years out of it, he just needs to pop in annually to give it a quick once over/service to keep it in good nick.
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