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Any plumbers on the forum?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by TDI, Feb 15, 2006.

  1. TDI
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    TDI Member

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    [Feb 15, 2006]

    New shower fitted but water pulses in mixer mode (rather than cold or hot only), and pressure is low. However if I turn on the second shower and leave the first one running it stops pulsing, but pressure is still low.

    Is the a problem with the system or do I replace the shower pump?

    Cheers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
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  3. dickys3
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    dickys3 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 15, 2006]
    I think TDI-Line is a plumber. I'm sure he'l be along soon.
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  4. TDI
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    TDI Member

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    [Feb 15, 2006]
    DickyS3,

    Thanks for the reply. I hope someone can point me in the right direction as I already called a few plumbers who never turned up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
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  5. myzeneye
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    myzeneye Member

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    [Feb 15, 2006]
    some questions first buddy. ( im a plumber by the way)
    make and model of shower ?
    electric or mixer ? ( mixer i presume)
    type of boiler ( combi or do you have a hot water cylinder?)
    does the shower have a pump or is it gravity fed ?
    does it pulse when temp is set to cold ?
    does it pulse when temp is set to hot ?
    when you set temp in middle(hot and cold) does it pulse and what temp is the water, scolding hot or tepid ?

    also, when you say the other shower is turned on, do you mean another shower fed by the same pump and cold feed in the same room or are we talking about another part of the house with different feeds...???
    is it a new installation or are you replacing an old mixer unit that worked fine with the old pipework and pump etc....

    could be a couple of things, and without looking the only way i can help is to ask you a shed load of daft questions mate....

    could be something simple like the thermostat setting in the new mixer unit, these are adjustable....

    answer these questions and ill let you know.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  6. myzeneye
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    myzeneye Member

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    [Feb 15, 2006]
    also, when running on either just cold or just hot.... whats the pressure like ????
    and whats the pressure like on the other shower when new one is off ???
    whats the pressure like on your taps ??

    these questions may seem daft, and i know your not stupid mate, but they all help me with the old process of ilimination routine.....

    nice one.
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  7. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Feb 16, 2006]
    As above. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
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  8. TDI
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    TDI Member

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    [Feb 16, 2006]
    myzeneye, TDI-line

    Not a problem with the questions thanks for replying firstly.

    Make of shower is Ideal Standard model is Trevi Moonshadow standard connection.

    It's a mixer that is feed by a hot water cylinder which is pumped by a 1 bar pump which sits next to the hot water cylinder.

    It doesn't pulse when in cold only or hot water only setting and pressure is low.

    It does pulse in mixer mode (hot and cold combined) and the pressure is low.

    When i turn on the other shower in the ensuite in the bedroom the pressure is good and no problems there, but i noticed last night that if i leave the ensuite shower running and then turn on the new shower it doesn't pulse not matter what the mode is, but again the pressure is still low.

    It is a new installation that replaced an old unit which my misses says didn't work that well, the pressure was low but it never pulsed.

    It was ok the first time it was turned on, but thereafter it has started to pulse after the 15 seconds and produce low pressure.

    No problems with taps in the house or the old shower in the ensuite. I'll stop there before you guys given up on me. Thanks again, seems you guys are my last call as I can't any plumbers for love nor money to pay me a visit at the moment and the guy who fitted the shower and tiled the bathroom isn't available for a week. It is frustrating as i've paid all this money and can't use the shower, sorry id i'm ranting on.

    Cheers Guys! Look forward to your replies
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  9. myzeneye
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    myzeneye Member

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    [Feb 18, 2006]
    do you have the instructions for the shower ???

    if you do, it will tell you how to strip the front of the mixer control and adjust the mix/temp thermostat.....
    it could be that.... pretty straight forward really.....
    if it works fine on either hot or cold setting, then there cant really be anything wrong with the supply.... if it only creates problems when in mix mode, then i would say its the thermostat.... they have a saftey stat inside incase of a drop in cold water pressure to save you getting scalded....
    have a fiddle, and let me know how you get on.......
    like i say, the installation book should tell you..... if you dont have it cos the plumber( who should of set it up really) has binned it, im sure you could download a copy from the manufacturers.

    good luck mate....
    (sorry i took so long to reply)
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  10. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 18, 2006]
    Also is the pump actually kicking in? and staying on?
    If it is then I'm surprised you're getting low pressure.
    Is it a new pump?
    Has it got it's own supply tank in the loft?
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  11. myzeneye
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    myzeneye Member

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    [Feb 18, 2006]
    andy, even if pump is on, if thermostat is regulated incorrectly it will reduce the dhw supply if not isolate it all together...... but still, saying that, it would just allow cold through and shouldnt really "pulse".....
    i presume pump is running, as it works fine at the other shower outlet .... ???

    when you run the new shower on hot only, whats the pressure like, and more importantly, whats the temp like ??? even though its set to hot, is it hot ???
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  12. myzeneye
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    myzeneye Member

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    [Feb 20, 2006]
    any joy then ???
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  13. TDI
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    TDI Member

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    [Feb 20, 2006]
    myzeneye,

    Really sorry mate for late reply, just had a chap come over yesterday to have a look. It turns out that the cold feed is coming via the tank, rather than being fed into the shower pump. He piped the cold feed to the shower pump today and all is fine. Thanks very much for your help.

    Once again guys thanks for your help
    #12
  14. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Feb 23, 2006]
    My turn...

    I've got a problem with me boiler!

    It's a Vokera Option (combi) and when I turn on the hot tap it runs hot for a while, then goes cold for 20 seconds or so, then back to hot for 20 secs, then back to cold... etc... I assume it has the same effect on the CH but it's obviously difficult to tell as the radiators are always warm.

    Now, with my limited knowledge I have drawn the following conclusion...

    As the boiler ignites and abviously catches ok I think a safety device must be kicking in, perhaps a faulty air pressure switch or high limit stat?

    or could it be a thermo-couple? Does an electronic ignition combi have a thermo-couple? If it does have one I'm surprised it runs for so long without shutting down first.

    My old boiler was a Baxi Bermuda and I had it apart no end of times as it liked to eat it's way through Thermo-couples, but this Volkera is different to the Baxi in many ways and I'm not as familar with it's operation and how problems manifest themselves.

    Any help much appreciated.

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    Kev.

    EDIT: or if affects the hot water only it could be a problem with the flow switch...

    I've got used to showering in 20 second blocks - it's getting un-funny.
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  15. myzeneye
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    [Mar 1, 2006]
    sorry for the delay buddy, ive been away....

    to answer your questions, firstly, no, it doesent have a thermo couple.... only appliances with a permanent pilot use thermocoulings..... yours has an electronic ignition.

    the symtoms you describe indicate a knackered diapham in your diverter valve....
    basically, when you open your hot tap, the presure on the diaphram is relaesed, aloowing a spring mech to push it forward, wich then allows a small pin to make contact with a micro switch, telling your gas valve to open and heat the water passing through.... if the diaphram is perrished, as they do, the pressure is no longer sufficient to maintaian an adequate contact on the micro switch.... or only intermitent at least.... as yours sounds to be....
    the only other thing it could be is the micro switch itself... but im more inclined to say its the diaphram.
    you can test it.
    to locate the diverter valve, take a look inside the boiler and what your looking for is a round metal valve with small screws going right around it.... poss around 90mm in diameter... out of the middle of it, there will be a small metal pin pertruding and being in line with a small micro switch with a couple of wires coming of it.... turn on the hot tap , and using a small screw diver, press the contact on the micro switch where the metal pin should come out and make contact.... get the wife to check the temp of the water while the switch is made.... if it remains hot.... bingo, its the diaphram in the diverter valve.
    you can buy them from your local heating parts center.... around £10- 15.....
    if you need a run down for swaping it, let me know... its not hard really.

    let me know how you get on.
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  16. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 2, 2006]
    Cheers mate,

    I'll take it apart over the weekend and have a look see.

    Just need to get a wife now to check the tap...

    Kev.
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  17. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Mar 3, 2006]
    lol Kev.
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  18. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    Ok, I've just noticed this...

    If the heating is not on (i.e. the room stat is not calling for heat) then the water side of things work fine.

    Turn the heating up so the rads are on and the water goes on and off as described above. So as it works normally on occasions I don't think the flow sensor is to blame. I'll still check it though.

    Does the above info give you anymore idea's?

    Kev.

    TDI - I went into Plumb Centre to tell them that I needed a wife to try and help fix the boiler. They told me the wife was a tempremental part and often prone to breakdown/faliure.
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  19. S3K
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    S3K Member

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    As long as the fan is running at the right speed and isnt clogged up with with dirt I would look at the air pressure switch first and check the tube/tubes going into the fan. The place they go into is the venturi and sometimes that can get clogged up and cause the APS (air pressure switch) to cut out. Also the tubes can split. The boiler tends to run at maximum gas pressure for hot water and less for heating so thats why it may be more noticible when running a tap. As for diaphragm I dont think the option has one its got a flow switch instead cos its a bi thermal heat exchanger. Before going any deeper into check those first.....though idealy any work you do is at your own risk cos you need to be registered to work on gas hehe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Hope this helps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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  20. Kevint
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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    Cheers mate, the APS was one of the options I came up with in my first diagnosis.

    I'll give it a looking at.

    Kev.
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  21. myzeneye
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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    s3k....
    yes mate, im not entirley familiar with that boiler and couldnt say of hand weather it had a diverter valve or not, but my guess is still, that if it does have one, then its the diaphram..... i wasnt really suggesting the flow switch micro sensor was the problem, just that eliminating it is the first step towards finding fault with the diaphram in the diverter valve...
    you suggestion is a valid one, worth taking a look at.
    ill see if i can download a manual from the manufacturer now and take a look....
    but even more so with the heating on/off issue, if it does have a div valve, i put money on it being that.

    ill have a look now.....
    i could be wrong, its hard to diagnose a fault down a broadband cable....

    also s3k.... do you have any experience with dreaded " jaguar" boilers.... made by glow worm for plumbcentre....???? im having trouble with one.... and locating a part... its a small metal clip ( not a circlip though) holding a pipe off the dhw heat exchanger into the blow off valve.... doesnt have a part number or anything ... plumb centre have washed there hands of jaguar and glow worm arnt very helpfull either...
    seems a shame to tell somone their boilers inoperable due to a 50p clip ????
    its a jaguar 24ktvj.

    any help is welcome..
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  22. myzeneye
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    myzeneye Member

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    http://www.vokera.co.uk/

    kev....
    no can do.....sites not set up yet...


    also possible dhw thermistor fault, although these tend to work or not work....
    #21
  23. S3K
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    S3K Member

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    s3k....
    yes mate, im not entirley familiar with that boiler and couldnt say of hand weather it had a diverter valve or not, but my guess is still, that if it does have one, then its the diaphram..... i wasnt really suggesting the flow switch micro sensor was the problem, just that eliminating it is the first step towards finding fault with the diaphram in the diverter valve...
    you suggestion is a valid one, worth taking a look at.
    ill see if i can download a manual from the manufacturer now and take a look....
    but even more so with the heating on/off issue, if it does have a div valve, i put money on it being that.

    ill have a look now.....
    i could be wrong, its hard to diagnose a fault down a broadband cable....

    also s3k.... do you have any experience with dreaded " jaguar" boilers.... made by glow worm for plumbcentre....???? im having trouble with one.... and locating a part... its a small metal clip ( not a circlip though) holding a pipe off the dhw heat exchanger into the blow off valve.... doesnt have a part number or anything ... plumb centre have washed there hands of jaguar and glow worm arnt very helpfull either...
    seems a shame to tell somone their boilers inoperable due to a 50p clip ????
    its a jaguar 24ktvj.

    any help is welcome..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Have all the boilers I work on on my laptop cos I work for BG. The closest I have is the jaguar 23, formerly the ktv15 if thats any help? I have the parts lists and diagrams and installation instructions and what not, but obviously there are a few clips to be seen. There is one small clip that has a screw and screws into the main manifold behind the pump? The actual PRV just screws into the manifold and DHW heat exchanger just has one securing screw that goes onto the manifold. The option doesnt have a divertor valve as I thought earlier. Its just a flow switch. Vokera have always had problems with there APS's right back to the RS turbo range which is why I would say check that first. I think we all have different methods of finding faults. It all comes down to experience but yes your right about diaphragms wearing in the valves but it would not be my first line of thought though who said I was any good at what I do anyways lol /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Not sure whether I can put a pic up for you to look at the part for you Jaguar cos i dont have the facility....cant say as i have worked on one either pal...... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif
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  24. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    I wanted to look today but I've only just got back in and I need the heating on as I've got guests around tonight - damn pain.

    I'll look tomorrow and report back.

    Again, thanks for the help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    Kev.
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  25. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    Does the APS make an audible "click" when it operates?

    Is it some sort of microswitch operated by some form of diaphram?

    Kev.
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  26. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    Fssssssst [sound made through sucking teeth]

    Sounds expensive Kev, maybe a new boiler?
    #25
  27. S3K
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    [Mar 4, 2006]
    The fan runs and then there should be a slight audible click from it before you hear the gas valve open...only slight mind you...and it is a switch operated by a diaprhagm in the top section of the boiler so when the boiler shuts down you should also hear the switch reset itself when the fam slows down....god its late...just got an xbox 360 today and my mind has gone numb hehe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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  28. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    Heh, You'll love the 360! Had mine for 3 months now and it's great!

    Just waiting for the boiler to cool down then I'll have a look see.

    Kev.
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  29. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    Ok, I've got this:

    [​IMG]

    No splits in the hose and it all looks clear. How can I test the operation of the APS? As I know the fan runs correctly could I short the APS out and check operation (assuming it's a normally open connection that is)? or is there a more safety concious and tested method I should use?

    Kev.
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  30. S3K
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    S3K Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    The only safe way would be to use an electrical meter across the two wires back at the circuit board....the unsafe way would be to use the meter at the switch when the boiler is running but cant recomend that in case ya kill yourself....most of vokeras boilers use 240v through alot of the components so be careful...have you got the installation instructions cos that will give you a bit of a guide as to the wiring?
    #29
  31. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    Right then, I've dug through all the paperwork which was left when I bought the place and I've come across the installation instructions which include wiring diagrams! Hoorah! It all does look like 230 BTW.

    I'll test the voltage on the back of the board, but 2 quick questions if I may...

    1) I assume the boiler runs fine with the control panel dropped down and the access panel to the PCB off?

    2) There is reference to a pressure switch and a pressure differential switch. Which one is the APS? I assume it's the latter as it connects to the same terminal blcoks on the PCB as the fan.

    Thanks for the help mate.

    Kev.

    EDIT: To answer question 2 I can just trace the wires back from the APS - I'd still appreciate and answer the Q1 though before I try and fire it all up whilst it's apart /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  32. S3K
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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    The boiler should run ok with the panel dropped down obviously be careful not to pull anything out as regards to the wires on the board. I think its a black and red wire you should be checking and it does look like it comes off the fan block so your right there. Just be careful what you touch and dont go licking your fingers before you start hehe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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  33. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    Cheers matey,

    I'll give it a go and report back - don't mind working on the weekend do you?

    Kev.
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  34. S3K
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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Cheers matey,

    I'll give it a go and report back - don't mind working on the weekend do you?

    Kev.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Am working already doing me own blimmin heating at home today lol /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    #33
  35. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    Well get it finished and get on the 360 with a beer.

    Sunday PM is PES (Pro Evolution Soccer) afternoon for me and we play several league games across Xbox LIVE.

    I'll check the boiler tomorrow night, thanks for the help so far.

    Kev.
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  36. S3K
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    S3K Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    Gotta sort out getting a router of some sorts by the look of things...blaaady technology....any recomendations? We have a pc and laptop as well as the 360....just to go off topic a little /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    #35
  37. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    I don't know what setup you have, but I use one of these.

    It is a modem and router all in one, it has both USB and Ethernet connections and works fine with LIVE.

    Kev.
    #36
  38. S3K
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    S3K Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    Gonna look into it cheers bud /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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  39. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    I have a Wireless Access Point which I plug into the Ethernet connection on the back.

    Anything wired gets plugged into the back of the WAP, anything wireless just communicates withe the WAP. In turn in feeds all my internet traffic to the net.

    Any questions or tech queries let me know.

    Kev.
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  40. myzeneye
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    myzeneye Member

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    [Mar 5, 2006]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    s3k....
    yes mate, im not entirley familiar with that boiler and couldnt say of hand weather it had a diverter valve or not, but my guess is still, that if it does have one, then its the diaphram..... i wasnt really suggesting the flow switch micro sensor was the problem, just that eliminating it is the first step towards finding fault with the diaphram in the diverter valve...
    you suggestion is a valid one, worth taking a look at.
    ill see if i can download a manual from the manufacturer now and take a look....
    but even more so with the heating on/off issue, if it does have a div valve, i put money on it being that.

    ill have a look now.....
    i could be wrong, its hard to diagnose a fault down a broadband cable....

    also s3k.... do you have any experience with dreaded " jaguar" boilers.... made by glow worm for plumbcentre....???? im having trouble with one.... and locating a part... its a small metal clip ( not a circlip though) holding a pipe off the dhw heat exchanger into the blow off valve.... doesnt have a part number or anything ... plumb centre have washed there hands of jaguar and glow worm arnt very helpfull either...
    seems a shame to tell somone their boilers inoperable due to a 50p clip ????
    its a jaguar 24ktvj.

    any help is welcome..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Have all the boilers I work on on my laptop cos I work for BG. The closest I have is the jaguar 23, formerly the ktv15 if thats any help? I have the parts lists and diagrams and installation instructions and what not, but obviously there are a few clips to be seen. There is one small clip that has a screw and screws into the main manifold behind the pump? The actual PRV just screws into the manifold and DHW heat exchanger just has one securing screw that goes onto the manifold. The option doesnt have a divertor valve as I thought earlier. Its just a flow switch. Vokera have always had problems with there APS's right back to the RS turbo range which is why I would say check that first. I think we all have different methods of finding faults. It all comes down to experience but yes your right about diaphragms wearing in the valves but it would not be my first line of thought though who said I was any good at what I do anyways lol /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Not sure whether I can put a pic up for you to look at the part for you Jaguar cos i dont have the facility....cant say as i have worked on one either pal...... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]


    S3k,
    if poss, could you send me a pic of the exploded diagram or parts list for the jag..... it would be a huge help...the clip is more like a round spring type clip.... havent seen one like it befor really ???

    i used to work for bg myself and kick myself for not taking the software of the laptop when i left.... i left cos their friggin slave drivers..... ha ha ha
    email me at .... myzeneye@ntlworld.com /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #39
  41. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Mar 6, 2006]
    So you don't wanna re-join then Myzeneye, i could gain $500 in Q-dos points for a recommend a friend scheme.

    (sorry about the dollar sign, this us keybaord doesn't have the pound one).
    #40

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