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Another Test Drive

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by h5djr, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    I had another test drive this afternoon in another 8V A3 Sportback. It was supposed to be in a 2.0TDI-150 Sportback SE s-tronic. This had been arranged by a dealer at another dealer's in their group. I took the car out with just my wife, no salesman, intending to drive it for several hours. When I did the first short stretch on the near-by motorway I thought it seem quite under-powered compared with my current 2.0TDI-170. When I looked down at the instruments I could see why. The rev counter red area started at 6k and the s-tronic had just changed into 7th gear. The 2.0TDI-150 has a 6-speed s-tronic.

    I pulled of at the next junction and stopped in a lay-by and had a look at the back of the car and it said TFSI. I then had a look in the glove box and found the Service Book, looked at the data sticker and it said it was a 1.4TFSI-90Kw (122PS) engine. I phoned the dealers and asked if they has given me the right keys and they said it was the only SE they had so there had been a mix-up somewhere. So I drove around for a while to try the SE seats and suspension and then took it back - they were a bit embarrassed to say the least. It was not really their fault but the other dealer in the group who had given them the wrong information. Still it did give me the chance to try a 1.4TFSI-122 and the other good thing from my point of view was that my wife said she did not think the seats were any more comfortable than the 2.0TDI-184 S-Line quattro we drove a week or so ago.

    Next Thursday I am driving a 2.0TDI-150 Sportback Sport s-tronic which of course has the same Sports seats so it will interesting to see what her reaction is to those.

    It's increasing looking like my next A3 Sportback will be a step up rather than down from my existing one. A 2.0TDI-184 Sport s-tronic quattro with SE suspension is now looking quite likely.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
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  3. cemerson
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    cemerson Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    You test drove an 8P?
    #2
  4. Joetidman
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    Joetidman Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    Do you mean 8V A3?
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  5. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    Yes of course. Be rather silly to test drive what I already own - Sorry I will edit my post.
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  6. Joetidman
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    Joetidman Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    I think the car you suggested you're heading towards sounds a good one, nice spec in sport, great performance with that engine plus Quattro and stron, but softer suspension will make for a lovely car
    #5
  7. PilotAudi
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    PilotAudi New Member

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    Your getting there Dave. You'll be having Black and Nav too I assume??
    #6
  8. Pulp84
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    Pulp84 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    Test drove an S Line TDI 184 Quattro today - what a car! I thought it rode very well on S Line suspension. On SE it will be even better.

    One of the best all round cars on sale in my book.
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  9. snakehips
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    snakehips Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    This is exactly what I'm driving. If you do go for it you won't be disappointed.
    Edit: well not quite exact, just spotted you fancy the Sport. So the 17" wheels should make it even more comfy.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
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  10. PilotAudi
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    PilotAudi New Member

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    Shame they don't do a manual.. Although I'm looking forward to an S3 in the family fleet ;-) we have ordered standard S3 seats but the Leather and Alcantara option. Might be an idea for Dave.
    #9
  11. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    My current spreadsheet shows my options at £4,660 but Black and the Sat/Nav and Leather and Alcantara will never be included!! I just don't like any of them.

    The only problem with having these test drives is then when I drive home I realise how much I like my current Sportback and it has just the spec I want. Quattro, ACC and Hold Assist would be nice but I've already got everything else I want, including my beloved TomTom with 4 maps updates (UK and Europe) per year and my camera updates.
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  12. PilotAudi
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    PilotAudi New Member

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    [Jan 4, 2014]
    I should keep the old silver machine then Dave. What's the panic, you can buy Audi warranty to 7 years+. Save your money for a decent holiday! (saga ? Sex and games for the aged - only joking honest as I'm not far behind you! )
    #11
  13. m0sbf
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    m0sbf Member

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    [Jan 5, 2014]
    Interested in your comments as I find the Sports seats in my A3 8V 2.0TDI SB Sport very firm. It's fine in short journeys but try several hours in the seat and then you start to feel it. It's not a disaster, but it would have been nice to get slightly more comfort. I don't remember the SE seats being this firm and I did drive an SE a few months back.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
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  14. Daveotto
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    Daveotto Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 5, 2014]
    Each to to there own I have put in a few 5 hour stints and have not had any aches or pains.
    #13
  15. cemerson
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    cemerson Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 5, 2014]
    I find the electric lumbar support is quite nice when adjusted right, and could even adjust it during a long trip to solve any aches or pains (though haven't found myself needing to yet, got it in quite a comfortable place)
    #14
  16. m0sbf
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    m0sbf Member

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    [Jan 6, 2014]
    The sports seats do offer a decent number of adjustments including seat cushion angle adjustment, height and backrest angle. They also offer seat cushion extension, so comfort can be improved by experimenting with these. I don't have any lumbar support adjustment on my standard sports seats, but have not suffered back aches. It's more the firmness of the seat cushion which takes some getting used to. As Daveotto says it is an individual thing and depends on what you are used to.
    #15
  17. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    I had yet another test drive in an 8V yesterday at Tamworth Audi. Excellent dealer, car all ready, correct car, washed and cleaned which is more than I can say for some of the other Audi and VW dealers I have visited. It made a very pleasant day out as Tamworth is 90 miles from home.

    The car was a 2.0TDI-150 Sport s-tronic on sports suspension. The main reason for driving it was to drive an A3 with the 150 engine and to further try the sports seats. When I tested a 184 S-Line with sports seats my wife was not over keen on the seats, especially for our long drives to Germany. The suspension was definitely not what I would go for much preferring the standard SE suspension. I found the sports seats OK and my wife agreed they were not too bad and she would happily accept them if that was what I wanted.

    The power from the 150 engine was noticeable down on my current 170 in some situations and the seats in my 170 are definitely more comfortable, which has really left me with two options. As I definitely want s-tronic I have the choice of a 2.0TDI-184 stronic quattro which I would have as a Sport with standard SE suspension as well as quite a few 'goodies' or keeping my existing 170 Sportback. The only problem with the later route is that, as the 8V is still quite new it is going to be around as it is for some time, I will have to change eventually. Also the value of my existing Sportback will go down and the difference between the trade-in value and the new car will get larger.

    Decisions, decisions. But I must say I am enjoying driving all the different models for a day.
    #16
  18. snakehips
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    snakehips Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    Other than the firmer seats did you not find that the 8V was superior to your 8P is every way, especially the 184PS? If you can get past the seat issue I say go for it now and bring great joy to your heart!
    #17
  19. Daz Auto
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    Daz Auto Active Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    Thanks for the update h5djr. I was also considering dropping from a 170 to a 150 engine. Looks like I'll need a test drive.

    Though I read somewhere that the power delivery of the 150 engine was smoother and better refined than the delivery of the 184. On paper it looks like there is little difference between the 170 and 150. Could it just be that the car felt slower? Also how many people were in the car? Do you normally drive with passengers? My boot is full of tools and equipment at the moment. I do notice the difference.

    I will probably be moving to Audi because I can specify SE suspension. I currently drive a DSG and will definitely want the S-tronic.

    I don't want Quattro, for several reasons, but primarily because it reduces the boot space so much.

    I wonder why Audi don't have a FWD 184ps with S-tronic?
    #18
  20. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    I think the change in boot capacity is a bit less on the 8V than on earlier models. It just means the boot floor has to be in the upper rather than the lower position and I think there is only around 50-60mm between them.

    Audi seem to have decided to only offer the top models in each range, the 184 in the A3 and the S3 and the top models in the rest of the range in s-tronic quattro.

    The power to weight ration of the 150 is 116ps/ton, my 170 is 124ps/ton and the 184 is 132ps/ton so my current car is mid-way between the two. I made the point of cruising on the M42 at 70mph and then putting my food down in both cars and my 170 definitely speed up noticeably quicker. I also felt when I was driving through some lanes I needed to be one gear lower using the tiptronic on the s-tronic in a lot of situations in the 150. In all cases that was with two in the car, which is how most of is done.

    I will definitely borrow a 184 again before making a final decision although one of the main reasons for considering the 150 was to get an SE version, mostly because of the seats. As we have now found the standard SE seats in the 8V to be no more comfortable than the Sport seats, it means I can have a 184 in Sport trim if I want one.
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  21. cemerson
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    cemerson Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    Torque is a more important figure than HP if you want to talk about acceleration.
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  22. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    True - 320Nm on the 150, 350Nm on my 170 and 380Nm on the 184. My existing 170 is still bang in the middle. The 150 is 30 below and the 184 is 30 above.
    #21
  23. Daz Auto
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    Daz Auto Active Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    If feel like I am among geekquals here on this forum. :salute: I would have done the power-to-weight calculation at some point.

    I was not happy in my last car because it was underpowered, but it was comfortable. I love the way my 170 goes, but am not happy with the comfort.

    Have had a look in my boot. The Quattro is definitely out... unless... I retire in my mid forties... hmmmm... but if I retire I won't be able to buy nice cars... catch 22. Ok just need to win the lottery.

    Will have to test drive the 150 and see if I can live with it.

    F it... going to wash my car now and think about this.
    #22
  24. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    Get a 150, have it remapped and it'll be faster,more fun and cheaper than the 184...
    #23
  25. PilotAudi
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    PilotAudi New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    Yes but no quattro so handling will be pants.
    #24
  26. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    So far the only 'remaps' I have seen for the new 150 are from the German companies MTM and ABT. In both cases they are not so much remaps as EDC replacements and the both costs just over £1000. I'm sure they would instantly void any Audi warranty and as PilotAudi says It would not be quattro either. There would almost certainly be additional insurance costs for the 3 years or possibly more I will keep the car. The 184 quattro works out about £2500 more than the 150 but I have always fancied having a car with quattro drive.

    I had a 140 remapped to 170 before my current 170 and whilst it did go very well, it was not as smooth as the factory 170
    #25
  27. yetirider
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    yetirider Active Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    My 1.6 TDI is my A1 took a good many miles to seem to offer its best power and MPG, have these test cars had enough miles on the clock to show the full potential? Might just be something to throw in the mix when comparing against your old car??
    #26
  28. CraigI
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    CraigI Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    The whole thing about going for an Audi for me is the Quattro (and to a lesser extent Sportback).
    I'd never have a FWD Audi, so understand the aspiration for the best Audi has to offer.

    The one thing you don't want to do is buy a car and have regrets for not getting a better variant of that car.
    Sounds like the 184 is the one.
    Get negotiating!
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  29. cemerson
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    cemerson Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    That's better :p Though you should take the wheel diameter (assume the same for all 3) and plug the resulting force at the edge of the wheel into f=ma to get an acceleration. Though of course you'd need the torque at the wheel rather than at the engine for that.

    The other question is - do you need the power you currently have? Or is the 150 adequate? I find it more than adequate personally. It often doesn't feel that fast, but then you look at how quickly the speedo needle is going round and find out it actually is...
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  30. steeve
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    steeve Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    I suggest you try both back to back, I think you would be quite surprised.
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  31. PilotAudi
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    PilotAudi New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    I have. Wouldn't consider an Fwd with that torque.
    #30
  32. steeve
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    steeve Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    Sorry I don't believe you.
    #31
  33. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    I had a front wheel drive car that maxed at 394Nm at 2338rpm. Sure it was fun and you had to drive it 'intelligently' when making fast starts. But it didn't matter if you pulled away slowly as it would 'pea' on anything else once it got going. It was safe though and was very very rapid in the 30mph to 100 mark...
    #32
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  34. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    As far as a remap is concerned, and we've been here before, if you want to spend over £1k on something that is probably less that half that in reality that's fine but I wouldn't. Just wait awhile and they'll be a about and the more companies that perform this the cheaper it'll be. The increase in insurance for my remapped car was £25 extra making it £275 in total.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
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  35. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    I must admit I have no trouble with the torque or handling with my current 170 Sportback apart from the front sliding a little on corners when it is wet. I sure I don't push it as far as it will go and I never suffer from wheel-spin as I never just plant my foot hard on the accelerator but try to take a smoother approach but I do enjoy driving in a 'spirited' manner especially when I'm on my own. I have also driven for many miles (or should than be kilometers) on de-restricted autobahns in Germany around 120-130mph feeling quite secure. Most of my 'on my own driving for the sheer pleasure' is done on the country roads near where I live.

    But I have to say that I think at the moment my 'ultimate' car within my price range would be a Sportback with the 2.0TDI-184 engine, an s-tronic gearbox and quattro drive with my choice of options and I don't think I'm going to get a better chance to have one than the current 8V model either now or certainly within the next couple of years. It is quite obvious to me that having had three 170s I would find the 150 a bit of a let down. If I had never driven a 170 A3 I'm sure I would be quite happy with the 150 but the extra power and torque does make quite difference. The contrast between driving a 150 demonstrator and a 184 demonstrator is very noticeable and they have all done a similar mileage and the handling on the quattro is just plain brilliant.

    The chap I dealt with at Tamworth Audi yesterday said I would make a good A3 salesman and I'm beginning to think he may have a point.
    #34
  36. scotty76
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    scotty76 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    Just another comment on the remap. I have an A4 B7 2.0T FSI so wrong section. :) However, the remap added £20 to my insurance and 40bhp extra taking it to 240bhp. The remap is just as smooth as the standard car was but it's just "better". I am extremely cautious so probably spent 2 years looking before remapping but wish I had done it sooner.

    Oh and it's FWD.... I'll get my coat.... :)
    #35
  37. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    "The chap I dealt with at Tamworth Audi yesterday said I would make a good A3 salesman and I'm beginning to think he may have a point."

    LOL, do him out of his job...
    #36
  38. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    With a diesel a remap transforms the engine. Instead of having to wait until the turbo spins up the kick is more or less instant and the engine will rev freely, almost petrol like. It actually makes a diesel fun to drive....
    #37
  39. yetirider
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    yetirider Active Member

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    Sounds like you have made your mind up, early breakfast and a trip to the dealer?
    I can smell an order on its way........
    #38
  40. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    According to the research I have done so far on the Bosch EDC17C64 control units fitted to the 8V is that not only does the EDC need to removed from the car but quite specialist and expensive kit that can connect directly to the pins of the main processors is required to change any of the code, which is why the two main German tuning companies have gone do down the EDC replacement route. No doubt someone will 'crack' the anti-tamper code eventually but by then Bosch will probably come up with a more sophisticated system for Audi to fit as standard and the whole process will have to start again.

    The German TuV organisation which authorises all car aftermarket add-ons and accessories in Germany are very keen to stop engine management units from be tampered with by other than companies who really know what they are doing and every one that is done has to be tested by them. There are the ones who are driving the requirement for a EU wide 'MOT' type test which will include a way a checking for engine management units that have been modified since manufacturer.
    #39
  41. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2014]
    Not until at least April when I will know what the changes are for the A3 for Model Year 2015. I will probably order for a September delivery as I already have a holiday booked where I will be taking the car to Northern Germany and the Mosel Valley in October. A 1400 mile round round trip with a lot of driving on superb German roads whilst I'm there.
    #40

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