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Another hybrid conversion thread....

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    VXR injectors sold to my mate and his C20 LET Corsa..... £100 including rail and FPR.

    That took all of 3 mins.
  2. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving

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    Good stuff, at least you've got rid buddy!
  3. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    I did say go for 550cc injectors earlier in the thread. Are you thinking about changing your fuel pump also. I know Genesis injectors and Walbro pumps are expensive but they are probably one the best quality items you can get so you know you get what it say on the tin.

    Nathan
  4. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    These are the injectors that will be heading my way..... Bosch 52LB / 550cc Hi Impedance Injector.

    Been over to Bill's briefly this afternoon, and Bill drove the S3 for the first time since the hybrid has been on. On the road that is. The confused look on his face on him coming back was enough to say it all....

    It doesn't drive like it outputs on the dyno is the long and short of it, and the reason why is hard to put fingers on.

    It's a nice that Bill seems a little disappointed with how it drives, as I have been to be honest. It means that it's not just me being a nobber.

    Various factors can contribute here, however, Bill thinks it drives like a big turbo'd motor on the road, and that the huge torque spike which we see on the dyno isn't as prominent under normal driving conditions.

    Odd.

    Anyway, after some discussion, the following has been decided. It needs the injectors, obviously. It needs a silicone TIP, really badly. Further to this, we think that the K04 manifold is really choking this down. It was orange glowing hot after 1 power run yesterday, which shouldn't be the case.

    The potential problem is that the large port head simply cannot flow the air out of the head towards the top end of the rev band, due to the OEM item being so restrictive.

    So.... I have the 'fixed' XS Power/Relentless tubular manifold at home. Fixed in that the flange is now flat and actually fit-able.

    So, it looks like I'll be slinging that on for a bit of a laugh.... Will be interesting to see what results this brings.
  5. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    OK, injectors ordered. Total cost of injectors, including wiring harness adapters, and postage, £168.

    Shibby.

    EDIT: This probably doesn't include getting bent over by the customs man when they enter the UK.... I did, however, mark it as a gift.... Because it is. *cough*
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  6. finesse
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    finesse Active Member

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  7. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    I know dude, and he very kindly offered me it, however I really want a black one to match all my other hoses...
  8. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    What are your torque figures like at the low end of the rev range with a large port head.

    Nathan
  9. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    I've placed a order on a set of 630cc injectors and a 2nd fuel pump, both the same as tufftys

    Will look into the manifold as well
  10. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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  11. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    OK. Injectors on their way baby. Left Salt Lake City last night at 6 PM. Lets be fair, that's damn fast.... And cool. I love the internet :)

    Anyway, after being at a bit of a crossroads with regards to manifolds, I now have more options open to me than expected....

    I have the tubular manifold at home, which was originally destined to be fitted. However.... as luck would have it, an 034 motorsport manifold has become available to me at a very reasonable price...

    I will be taking my tubular up to Bills for comparison purposes along with an OEM manifold.

    I'll post more on this tomorrow....
  12. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Bill, can you post the K04 vs K04 Hybrid run overlays? Is interesting, and needed for the purposes of another discussion....

    Cheers :)
  13. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    latest one.. best of your k04 vs hybrid as is...
    [​IMG]
  14. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Essay alert..... (not like the Mexicans...)

    OK, newest news as it were....

    Been to Forge this morning and spent just under £3 million on a Forge TIP. Autobahn88 have been messing me about unfortunately since I managed to get a black TIP from them for £45 quid plus postage (3 weeks ago). Basically, they sold me something they haven't got stock of and are waiting on some more to be delivered.

    It still hasn't even been sent from Hong Kong, and since I would like it before I start drawing a pension, I told them to forget it and give me my money back.

    Here is the Forge one:

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, I shall be fitting this tonight.

    Hopefully it will get rid of the suspected compressor surge I have been experiencing - however, only time will tell. Will take a few photos of the OEM TIP and the Forge TIP together for comparison.

    Injectors should be here inside the next few days as they have been flying over the pond over the weekend. Looking forward to getting them on and cooking.

    Finally, the decision has been made to go with the 034 Motorsport manifold for fitting this week before we continue mapping at the weekend. Various reasons and much deliberation has gone into deciding which option to go with.

    The 034 Mani is basically identical to an OEM one, but has been extensively enlarged. The collector has been ported much better than the OEM item, and it is claimed to have 40% more flow than the OEM item. Photos to follow.

    There is some interesting data on the 034 K04 Manifold on this thread (VWVortex.com - K04 Performance exhaust manifold....ANYONE) on VWVortex - most useful post being #14. Shows WBHP and Torque losses and increases over the rev band. Also, the OP in that thread is running a very similar setup to mine - Large port and K04 hybrid.

    Long and short of the data on Vortex being that the lower down BHP and Torque is less until mid range where a performance increase is seen, which then continues until the top of the rev band.

    Another interesting factoid is that Bill has a Leon with a K04 hybrid on the rollers in yesterday to the workshop. Obviously I was interested see see what the power output was going to be, as it is a comparible setup.

    The small port head seems king on the hybrids for BHP. The Leon made 300 bhp, running less boost than me, by a reasonable amount. This is also true of Speedy Steve's hybrid S3. Once again, the small port head is making good BHP there as well, breaking well into the 300s. In contrast, the large port head I am using seems to create a good deal more torque, but less BHP.... Which is in fact the opposite of what was expected.

    The installation of the three parts ordered should make for some interesting reading, so watch this space.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  15. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving

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    "Watches intently".

    Also, PMSL at you, you drunken monkey! Who thinks to test flow rates with aerosol cans, a lighter and a Big Puff ;)
  16. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    I don't know what you mean..... I stand by the fact it seemed like a good idea at the time.... Until we had some overspill and all my masking tape set on fire. :(
  17. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving

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    The time being after a lager or 7? Either way, it made me laugh chap :thumbsup:
  18. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    Hi

    Here's some comparison pictures of K04 stock ex manifold, 034 manifold and Relentless
    Enjoy

    [​IMG]

    034 - How is a std gasket going to fit such a large outlet? If you did fit one, it will reduce the size. :think:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  19. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    The hot side of the turbo inlet would need to be ported to match for the best results
  20. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Yeah, it is a mite oversized....
  21. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    TIP fitted this evening, and the cavitation has now gone.

    Air flow readings are higher, seeing a peak of 270 g/s on the way over to get the 034 manifold from Bill's.

    Looking at alternative TIP options now, as the Forge is just a stop gap.
  22. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Interesting Welly, do you think more flow could be realised with a more free flowing TIP over the forge?
  23. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    what other TIP options do you have? i mean they're all pretty much the same aftermarket silicone ones arn't they.
    also its hard to imagine how the hell that tubular manifold fits, its huge compared to oem.
  24. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    In a word yes. Bill has been talking to me about it at length. The thinking process is that a 3" TIP is going to allow a lot more flow than it's smaller counterpart.

    Common knowledge that turbos perform better if there is no restriction at all - a larger TIP ultimately will allow for an easier intake track.
  25. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    The tubular isn't going on the car. It could have been made to fit - it's been done on a K04 equipped A3. It's a bit tight though I admit.

    Once all the mapping is done and the manifold is on, this will be investigated in more depth. It's a custom job.
  26. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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  27. Lemon S3
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    Lemon S3 Alex

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    Is the 034 man' from Issam? Looks very similar to mine.
  28. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    its from 034 like they all are.. same thing
  29. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Looking forward to fitting it, and yet NOT looking forward to it all at the same time.... What an arsehole of a job.....:(
  30. Lemon S3
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    Lemon S3 Alex

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    Lol good luck dude, remember to drink lots of tea :icon_thumright:
  31. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Hmmmmm, or vodka.... lol.

    The amount of cuts I have on my hands is incredible at the moment, the damn car has bitten me so many times lately :(
  32. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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  33. DaveA3
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    DaveA3 Audi A-Trizzle!

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    nice read. looks like its coming along nicely again mate. Good luck with the fitting!
  34. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    The car drives very differently with that new TIP on, which surprises me.

    IATs are down over yesterday on the same sort of driving, and ambient is the same.

    Plus the DV makes to coolest sound ever! lol.
  35. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    getting bits together for the 3" TIP now.
  36. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    OK coolio, cheers dude :thumbsup:. I'll be down tonight, and have been conned into giving Tuffty a lift....
  37. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh yeah... real arm twisting moment that was LOL....

    <tuffty/>
  38. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    :(, my arm is still hurting now.... lol.
  39. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Anyway..... this is an updated copy of the PDF file earlier in the thread.

    I have added various things which I think are a requirement for fitting a hybrid, and the associated costs.

    If you're planning on doing this from an otherwise standard S3 - you best sit down. There are things than can be altered or removed - but if you're going to do it properly....

    http://www.thewellings.co.uk/audi-sport/hybrid/K04-Hybrid-Breakdown2.pdf

    EDIT: No labour included.... that's just parts. And the mapping.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  40. mk1chopper
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    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    I think you should add FMI to your list aswell

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