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Another hybrid conversion thread....

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    Looking very nice welly, end is in site dude.

    Just wondering how did you get the timing belt on. Did you put the tensioner damper and tensioner on first then the belt or did you put the tensioner on first then the belt then the tensioner damper.

    Nathan
  2. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Tensioner changed whilst the head was off. Engine mount off. Old water pump and tensioner damper out. New tensioner damper and water pump in. Refit engine mount, feeding new belt around it before bolting up. Time bottom end before fitting head (head timed before removal) Time engine. Turn over by hand. Check. Pull pin.
  3. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    In the 1st picture the turbo on the right is the new hybrid but whats the one on the left?
  4. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Just put there for comparison purposes - it's a standard K04-022
  5. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Is it me or am i being silly but does you exhaust side of the turbo look smaller than mine on page 1?
  6. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    It's the same turbine wheel, but the housing has been machines in a slightly different place. I thought that originally too mate, so you're not being silly! lol
  7. DaveA3
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    DaveA3 Audi A-Trizzle!

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    oo im excited for you somehow. interested in the results dude! good job
  8. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Yes will be interesting to see how his compares to mine
  9. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    fingers crossed - we'll see.
    Differences being largeport head vs std smallport, VXR480's vs 440 greens, one car has wideband lambda one does'nt (wellys)

    should be an interesting time ahead
  10. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    OK, initial logging runs show the car making 247 g/s air flow peak. Also, the Stage 1 REVO goes into spakko and completely opens the N75 valve to try and kill the boost off towards the top of the rev range, as the turbo doesn't naturally die off like the K04-022 will.

    Boost is showing as off the MAP sensor at 2540 mb (1540 mb actual) until around 5k RPM when the N75 manages to open the actuator to drop the boost down to follow requested.

    The new boost control table on the new map will sort that out, but should give me some extra flow top end as the turbo is nowhere near maxxed out.

    Also, the engine is (as expected) over fuelling heavily with the 470cc injectors, as the map is expecting standard injectors. Block 001 logging on idle shows the ECU removing up to and sometimes including 25% (maximum possible) fuel on idle and under cruise. Obviously under full throttle, my lowly non wideband engine management just shuts up and does what it's told....

    Mapping Saturday - well, the start of at least. Should be a good day hopefully.
    StaceyS3 likes this.
  11. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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    247g/s before a map to suit! happy days! Probably not going to be keeping up with you on the way back from ADI lol.
  12. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    welly.. actuator pressure and lay off the throtttle pedal mate else you will damage it
  13. Imteyaz
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    Imteyaz 6th Gear

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    Is this a new technical term Welly LOL?

    Looking forward to the results after Bill maps it :yellowrs4:
  14. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  15. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    eagerly awaiting the results from mapping this morning!
  16. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving

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    Echo that!


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  17. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    common ya bastid!

    We know Bill mapped it, Paul mentioned it in his thread, but failled miserably to give details!
  18. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    OK, OK, OK. Sorry for the late reply...

    The mapping may of taken a little while today - all day in fact. I pitched up at about 9.05 this morning, and left at about 16:40, so a long day for all concerned.

    Mapping was slow but steady, hampered by various factors.

    VXR injectors (at an alleged 470cc) were not big enough. Two possible factors here - firstly that they aren't 470cc. The other possibility being that the large port head on the S3 is pulling in more air than expected. Either way, they were maxxed out. Arse.

    Faced with two possibilities at this point. Either fit some larger injectors, like Genesis 550s and solve the issue that way, or try and eak some extra flow out of the VXR injectors using a 4 bar FPR. Now, 4 bar FPRs not being ideal as they have a tendency to hose the fuel pump, was the option I went for as I had one at home, and a new fuel pump is cheaper than another set of injectors.... lol.

    Anyway, the 4 bar FPR blag worked and the duty cycle on the injectors dropped to tolerable levels, and enough fuel was being provided at that point for a happy engine.

    Initial runs on actuator pressure produced 235 bhp. N75 boost control is out as on option for now, as the boost control table on the map needs to be altered drastically to make this work. At this point, for mapping purposes, Tuffty very graciously lent me his Forge UNOS boost controller so that mapping could continue. Cheers love :wub::thumbsup:.

    Boost set initially to 23 PSI and then upwards as we went through the stages of getting the map right.

    It's there or there abouts now, and Bill will be sending the file off, with notes of the changes that have been made to the engine (4 bar FPR), and the various changes made to the map.

    Now - down to business - power output.

    Saw various stages of power output during the day, moving ever upwards.

    Last runs we showing around 290 BHP with torque of around the 275 lbft mark. Boost is set to 25 PSI and will then hold 21+ PSI all the way to the redline.

    Mapping not finished yet, and need to get back to Bill's tomorrow for the flash of the updated file and some more tweaking.

    Interested to see what the car will output on a first run. The later power runs where it was making 290, the engine was VERY hot by this point and was suffering from heat soak. Having had a chat with Bill, he said I would be surprised what a difference a cooler engine will make, but that remains to be seen.

    Power figures not that important to be honest - drive ability however is great. Spools and drives like a big turbo S3, which is a bit weird, considering it's not... Really feel strong on the road, and pulls all the way to the redline as the boost doesn't drop off like it does with a K04. The difference is incredible.

    Bill, when I left told me not to gun it too much, however I had to bend the rules a tad on the way back from the takeaway, as coming up the A38 was a UK 300 Scooby that skinned me a few months ago when I had a play. Interested to deal a little payback, I was nailed to his arse all round the twisty turns of the Gloucestershire countryside - this pleased me. Immensely. He pulled into a petrol station, and needing juice, I followed suit. So, me and my mate who was with me had a laugh at his expense, much to his disgust.

    S3 FTW. :thumbsup:

    Liquid is showing me 257+ g/s air flow and estimated 321 BHP. We shall see.

    I will keep you posted.

    Thanks to Bill for all his efforts today - :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2010
  19. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Also, forgot to add, was (whilst racing scooby) lighting up the road behind me with the flames coming out of the exhaust :eyebrows:.

    Was sooooo cool, reminded me of my old corsa! lol. Like camera flashes off the trees....
  20. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    A couple of random photos... Sadly I forgot to take my camera to Bill's today :(.

    [​IMG]

    Liquid giving me some good readings. No guarantee of accuracy there though...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  21. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Good result

    I have the same injectors but i also plan to fit the 4 bar ( i have one ) or a adjustable one and also a 2nd fuel pump and WMI

    I may look into bigger injectors myself if your maxing them out
  22. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    You could have a tired fuel pump also?
  23. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    No, we tested the fuel pump as that came up as a possibility. It's holding 5.4 bar on load with the 4 bar regulator, so the fuel pump is good (for the moment).

    An inline pump is a future possibility for me as well dude, but once the costs have faded from the build...

    Even with the 4 bar regulator, the duty cycle on the injectors is still high, so I would definitely look to upgrade. Fuel output at 4 bar on the VXR injectors is about 512cc.
  24. DJ_Troopa
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    DJ_Troopa K1 Driver

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    Did you have to the change the internals for the hybrid Welly? Who is the hybrid turbo by? I was so tempted to hybrid my one when all the damage happened a few months back but i thought it was too much money on top to do internals, rods, extra mods to suit etc... :(

    Loving the figures you're getting! Was just telling my friend who's next to me at work how cool it is that you fit everything yourself! Lucky git lol.
  25. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    I already changed the internals dude. When I bent a rod back in February I changed the rods for forged ones there and then. Also, whilst the engine was apart I noticed that the turbo was shot then.

    I always suspected that I may head down this route, so I have been systematically changing all the required parts for the hybrid over the last few months or so. Downpipe was the last item to be fitted a couple of weeks ago.

    So yes, rods, a must have IMO. Unless you like changing your block like I had to because of a bent rod. Ouch.
  26. DJ_Troopa
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    DJ_Troopa K1 Driver

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    Ouch, how did you bend a rod??
  27. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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  28. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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  29. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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  30. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    bosch rate these vxr's at 443ml/min @ 3bar, not the 470+ we see touted on tinterweb
    they dont produce as much fuel flow as 440's tho at same pressure... hmmm

    not quite what they have been reported to be in actual use.

    comparison, before/after, k04 vs hybrid (so far on unfinnished mapping)
    [​IMG]

    remembering this car runs larger fmic, larger charge pipework, and largeport head compared to speedysteves previous one

    work in progress
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2010
  31. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    On the whole, they have been a bit of a let down to be fair.... I may take this up with Vauxhall on monday to see what they say.

    A good myth bust been done here though - VXR injectors ARE NOT 470 cc.
  32. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    Nice figures welly, how does the car drive compared to when it was at stage 1. Why dont you run a Walbro fuel pump with 550cc Genesis injectors. I have seen people run these with 400 bhp + so should be sufficient for your setup.

    Nathan
  33. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    I'll stick my VXR ones on ebay now by the looks of it and my 4 bar FPR too
  34. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    One word....

    Cost.

    lol
  35. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    whats the fpr rated to on the fuel rail it came with? 3.5bar?
    just a thought
  36. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Just done a search and it looks like the VXR runs 3.5bar from some of the posts on the net
  37. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving

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    Nice results pal, coming on well with Bills mapping by the sounds of it. Have you already had a MBC sorted? If memory serves you had a thread on it recently but can't recall if you actually fitted it!


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  38. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    the 'plumb centre' accessory Welly did have found a new home... the bin!!! luckily there was one lying about on an S3 that just happened to be in the workshop at the time and used that....

    <tuffty/>
  39. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving

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    Haha. This wasn't a silver S3 by any chance, Paul???


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  40. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Might be :whistle2:

    <tuffty/>

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