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Another hybrid conversion thread....

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    When you first got your hybrid, you would have been over the moon for a sustained 340bhp, so yes is it worth going into melt down in more ways than one...manifold or pocketwise...
    340bhp is not to be sniffed at, and will play with the best on the road....
  2. Sandip
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    Sandip Active Member

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    You don't really want to stop figure chasing do you:3sadwalk:

    I predict that once you do the water/meth and get some more addictive gains you'll want more:eyebrows: SEM manifold with a larger throttle body maybe??

    362bhp 314lbft after water/meth
  3. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    After all the time, effort and money (and being moaned at by the woman....), its getting to the stage where I would rather sacrifice some bhp for a bit of reliability I think. It's cost me probably £500 just taking the head on and off as many times as I have now, I could do without doing it again.

    But we shall see anyway.... :eyebrows:

    I think even with water meth she will struggle to break through the 360 barrier, I just don't think that sort of output is possible from the physical kit that's there to be honest.

    I would love to be proven wrong however.
  4. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving

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    All that heat and not a bacon rasher or egg in sight... Hmm, must be lunch time!

    Cracking work buddy (not the right word to use, sorry). Results were astounding, as mentioned on the Book of Face! So impressed by Bill's workmanship and moreover, the speed of the man!!
  5. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    ...many many many hours on wellys these past few months, and 6 hours on it alone today fiddling with adjustments up, down, back, forth, sideways etc etc...

    Finally: No more to come.
    g/s on his is on the dyno between 245g/s and 255g/s depending on what maf sensor we ran on it..
    consistent power we stopped with, was 338bhp and less boost, 22psi now not 25peak it did for the 344bhp number, which we could not replicate today at all, without working it too hard.
    Exhaust manifold temp is significantly reduced as a vid of wellys should show in comparison to the other day where it was spectacular, but just too much.

    I think we're done with this one now..
    338bhp 307lbft kind of power "on my dyno" is very respectable, and wmi is keep it all under control, without silly added ign, in case his wmi setup has a "moment" as its had the last couple of days.. Keep some CF correction in hand in case iut fecks up.

    245g/s on his has made 338bhp on the dyno from 22psi boost

    [​IMG]
    and
    [​IMG]

    I am knackered with ringing ears and stinging eyes now...

    Welly, post up that vie when you get a mo mate
  6. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Will do dude - well, when I pick the camera up from your unit that is.... D'oh.

    A public thanks again for all your time and effort today - I don't think my car will be sad to see the back of that dyno... lol.

    A note on driveability - all that timing has made the thing savage. And I mean savage. :thumbsup:
  7. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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  8. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    So did you try the wmi with 25 psi before you dropped it? Obv reliable power is what anyone would want but its good to push it.
  9. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    aye bring it on
  10. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    nope, well yes, but torque rose not power... and its running too hard, too hot at that level. pointless in getting a number which is likely to be unreliable imho
  11. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Yeh I see your point.
    So has this set the benchmark for what a ko4 hybrid can do, or have people had more?
  12. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    not aware of others which have made this level..
    interested if there are to compare notes so to speak
  13. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    I have backed 1 degree of timing out of the ECU as I was seeing pull of a max 5.8 on the road, even with WMI running. Now down at a much happier 3 CF or less across all 4 cylinders.

    The Water Meth in this tank is actually lasting really well. The screenwash tank is a large 5.5 litres, meaning that it should last a full tanks of fuel under normal driving I would think. Hoping to pop in to Bill's on my way home later on and grab my camera so that I can upload the WMI install photos.

    Then I shall post and long and drawn out conclusion to this project... Mainly my thoughts, and how I would do it on another car, having done everything in pretty much every way now... lol.
  14. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    top bloke, nice one.
    videos would be good mwahahaha
  15. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    Have you got a failsafe for the WMI welly? or just pulled the timing back...
  16. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Got a video for comparison of the exhaust manifold heat before on 25 PSI with no WMI, and one with lower boost and WMI running. They are both glowy - but one is significantly less glowly than the other.

    I will also take it out tomorrow, in the daytime, and get some videos from an in car perspective - maybe. And maybe another one from outside... lol.
  17. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    What was it like on fueling? wasn't the 550cc maxing out before?
  18. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Not sure, and don't have access to the logs. It will be somewhere around the 90% duty cycle I would think though.
  19. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Fuelling should be fine... pretty sure advancing the timing doesn't affect the fuelling and is essentially free BHP... you are running less boost so less airflow and less fuel but more power from timing advance... I think... :D

    <tuffty/>
  20. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Yeah, the fuelling is fine, no problems there. I meant the duty cycle on the injectors is around the 90s I believe, however a quick review of the logs will tell...
  21. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    Too much timing advance could make a lot of negative work on the engine which isn't alway good as you could have too much cylinder pressure at TDC.

    End of the roads in sight isi mate, think the S3 deserves a detailing now lol
  22. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    thankyou
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  23. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    Your a right f***ing ass hole really are mate got a big ass ego and just a genereal twat towards me. Every single post i put up you up you always have a stupid comment to say back.

    Its not stating the obvious mate, some members may not now when you adjust your timing you can adjust the start/end of combustion and peak pressure can occurs earlier accord the the crank angle. And wtf is up with book book book all the time. Im study a engineering degree which involves learning the technical stuff from lectures/recommened books about engine and vehicle dynamics whats you point exactly. Begin to not bother with this forum because of you mate your a right prick.

    Sorry welly but in this forum bill just provoke arguements with me twice now and ina and it ruins your thread. I posted something relevent based on pauls post and i ge this but there way to many bagder 5 brown tongues on he to realise what type of person he his base on his post about other members post m.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2011
  24. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    sorry Nattie
    My bad
    pm sent
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  25. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    PM replied, lets just move on then Bill.

    Welly........ whats the news.
  26. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    OK, photos of the revised water meth install here:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And one on the dyno - didn't take many of the car on the dyno really - one is as good as many.... Ignore Bill and his hat.

    [​IMG]
  27. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Welly, I love your car, you know I do.....

    But surely, 340bhp on standard brakes and standard suspension must be terrifying?

    Surely it's time to give it the setup the engine deserves!
  28. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Testing WMI spray capability... and getting myself wet...



    OK, so for comparison purposes, here is the video Tuffty posted on the previous page, and the new one with less boost and WMI installed.

    The difference in heat is clearly visable - the first is yellow, and the second you can see that the manifold doesn't get much more than red. This is far more acceptable - happy days.

    25 PSI with no Water Meth:



    22 PSI with WMI installed and running:

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
  29. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    why did you have to go and fit wmi!!! now were not going to no how the manifold withstands to normal maxed out k04/hybrids :( lol im beggining to wounder if i might see how much you can push the std k04 now with the 3inch tip it must be able to go beyond 300bhp? manifold next if i do decide to....
  30. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    If I'm being honest mate, not at all. The thing stops brilliantly, and handles like it's on rails. I have no complaints...
  31. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Sorry dude. I appreciate what you're saying, and agree, but I do want to try and build some longevity into her this time.
  32. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    OK, going to give this some thought tonight about coming to some sort of conclusion on this project... and write one.

    Serviced the old girl today, and resolved a few other annoying problems out, so I guess we're all done then.

    What will I do now?? lol
  33. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    lol no need to be sorry your the one who has to pay out and do the hard graft every time it goes wrong so id have done wmi if i were you to... id need to do wmi to anyway if i was to max out the k04 to keep it cool, i really dont want to be striping the engine and fitting rods though i have done many engine builds in my time but dont want to get this one apart untill i have to i belive an engine is far stronger left built from the factory then to pull it apart and replace parts, yes the rods are weak but i think imo id rather have a stronger engine with the chance of snapping or bending a rod then a rebuilt more robust engine...hope that makes sense lol. Having said that its easier for me to have this view as i work in the trade and so doing an engine build or change is only going to cost me parts and i have always said that id wait untill i blow this one before building a new one and lets be honest it will end up with a far bigger blower anyway haha
  34. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    What does it drive like welly, with the 100 ponies extra from the ko4 or thereabouts...what do you think you can take on (apart from the world ..lol) car wise??
    is it a good daily driver, or a bit raw? and has it turned into a Vpower shareholders dream....
  35. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    She beat a UK 300 Imprezza running 300 BHP/275 lb/ft, so I would imagine the extra BHP and torque would spank it quite heavily. I reckon she will have a play with most things now to be fair, I'd give most things a go.

    As a daily driver, it's fine to be fair. Keeping off the throttle to suppress the boost is the only thing required. She is thirsty - I won't deny that, but then again I do do a lot of miles...

    I'll get a few videos of being out driving in the next few days. I know it's not the best, but at least it gives an idea.
  36. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    Great vids would be cool, im hoping to put an end to my tuning this year with my hybrid..Manifold dependant...really sick of waiting now...so fingers crossed for the manni....for everyones sake....lol
    how thick was the wall (estimated) on the tubing on the manni?
  37. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Not massively thick - maybe 1.5 - 2 mm or so from memory. Bill would be in a better position to say...
  38. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    hmmm needed to be at least 2..2.5 ideally 3mm
  39. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    are you seriously saying this? if i read it right?
    whats stronger about a factory engine vs one with forged rods in it?
  40. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeh thats what i'd have liked to see as well...

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