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Another hybrid conversion thread....

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    Iv had my manifold glowing before, but nothing like that! no wonder they crack and die.
  2. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    yes - it was provoked to do this... full load, then just onto the throttle to tickle some fuel thru then back on the throttle..
    overrun fuel cut off usually so no overrun fueling, hence provoking it for the camera/picture
  3. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    some much quicker than others as we have seen....
    hey ho..

    std manifold puts up with a lot.

    when you see manufacturers load test their engines, they are holding full loads for a long time and everythings glowing for a very long time.

    Wellys was held at 3krpm only and 20psi boost during the "photo" run..

    Hopefully it puts into perspective what these things glow like when used in anger..

    allow plenty off cool off time before switching off your engines after a good thrash folks :)
  4. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    I did think from the sound you was trying to make it happen,
    Aparently mine does it on rapid gear changes if driven very hard,
    Ive never seen it but people who have say the car sounds great and the "pop" when it flash's is great.
    I dont drive it hard enough when somebody could film it to be honest
  5. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    I was mapping a hybrid k03/4 ibiza today and giant flash in the rearview mirror caught my attention when I lifted off at the end of a power run.. Decatted
  6. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    a nice picture I found off the web ages ago
    [​IMG]
  7. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    Ye, mine has no cat. 3 inch downpipe and an unresinated sp* miltek exhaust,
    I like the sound of mine if you floor it but very dont realy get the chance these days
  8. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    I will try and get a picture of my mates astra gsi with a gt3076r making the manifold glow almost white.
    Obviously a mapping issue and it shortly after cracked the manifold
  9. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [​IMG]
  10. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    damned hot

    several years ago, at a company I wont name, my car was loaded so much its rear silencer internals glowed red hot!
    turbo back to rear silencer all glowing cherry red and yellow @ turbo/manifold

    It killed the turbo, warping the exhaust housing.

    wellys load was minimal in comparison!
    when the next 2 BT cars with my ceramic coated tubular manifolds are on my dyno I will make sure there's a vid taken.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
  11. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Nice shot that is dude, she was flaming a lot last season at Combe on the track. You're an animal... :thumbsup:
  12. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Does anyone know the sort of engine testing Audi did on our little 1.8's?
    You mention they run them hard bill, which I can imagine, just wondered exactly what they do. To sort of put peoples mind at ease when they think they're thrashing it for only minutes if not seconds lol.

    And to have a whole system glowing, that's just insane!
  13. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    I think i read it somewhere that they held the revs at 9500+rpms constantly?

    Don't quote me on that
  14. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    hmmmm 9500rpm seems a little extreme for hydo followers sustained
    its very hard, and sustained tho from what I have heard
    we should try and dig out some audi info on this...
  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    AFAIK the flames will happen even on overrun, as the map is usually set to continue injecting fuel at high RPMs on overrun to help cool the pistons? I certainly had it on my astra, and it was a shitty standard 1.4i, but it only ever did it when lifting off, in gear, at high rpm, if i'd been giving it death.

    I wonder how much of the glowing on the dyno is down to the lack of airflow? When being driven on the road there will be a lot more air flowing over the manifold than with the car sat stationary in a dyno cell...

    Turbocharged Marine engines for instance all have watercooled ehxuast manifolds for this exact reason, as unlike a car, a boat has little to no airflow over the engine/manifold which causes silly heat build up.

    Would be a nice comparison to place a camera under the bonnet and do some real road tests to see if you can get it glowing a similar amount?
  16. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    I've opened my bonnet after spanking the car down the road in -5 degree ambient temps, and seen it glowing white, hotter than it gets in that video.

    There is a small amount of airflow over the manifold, even on the road as it is very tight down the back of the engine bay in the S3.
  17. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    lol-not dyno, just sustained and applied load.. open bonnet, what airflow do you think reaches round the back of the covered engine in normal duty?
    they do get this hot when spanked-just you cant see it cos you are driving it, and the bonnets shut... blissfully unaware of the heat under there!

    post up your digicam pix when you do the test you suggest... make for some good viewing.. belt up your nearest hill and review.. muchos hotos
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  18. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Probably difficult to get info like that.
    But big flagship engines are tested so so hard, amg for example, if I recall there is some seriously mental vids on YouTube of the v8's.
    I just wonder if they so it fir all if there engines as hard, and not just the power houses. There must be some sort of test they HAVE to do for quality control
  19. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    during development and component testing they spend weeks on the dyno's being run and calibrated..
    its pretty remarkable how well the components do last when subjected to the temps, and changes of temps.. cold starts, sub zero's up to being red hot when spanked.. You can see why they added things like egt control, when k04's as std run so hot, and this is without remaps and the like.. Interestingly, the K03 hybrids I do, which are essentially k04's inside a k03 wrapper, and run on the k03 manifolds, dont run anywhere near as hot (not glowy) as their k04 cousins, and make more power.. Says it all about the flow restrictions in the k04 setup.
  20. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    As does the change between the hi flow manifold and the OEM item. OEM K04 manifolds might be as hard as nails.... but they aren't very good... :(
  21. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Still id rather have one that lasts and doesnt flow as well than well i wont go there..........................
  22. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    True. :yes:
  23. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    OK, so new year, back on it.

    I have spend a large portion of my Christmas period absolutely hammered to be fair, and I even went and started to fit my catch can (whilst drunk) and it didn't work so well. Hand eye coordination wasn't good, so I decided to leave it.

    I have spoken with JBS this morning, and disappointingly, they are now saying that the K04 Manis won't be available until the end of February. A little irritating after they were aiming for before Xmas 2010, but there we go.

    Booooooooooooooooooooooo!
  24. finesse
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    finesse Active Member

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    lol @ Welly trying to work drunk!

    Welly can you list what & how many bits you have for the catch tank?
  25. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Can do, will take photos when I get home tonight as well. I can't remember off hand what bits are there to be honest dude.

    I need some half decent hosing for it as well.
  26. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    where are you planning on putting the catch tank?
  27. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    The side of the battery tray for me mate. I am going to look into relocating my battery to the boot towards the summer. It will give so much more room under the bonnet. Also will enable me to move my air filter.... :eyebrows:
  28. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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  29. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    if you're looking for a small lightweight battery I'd look into something like an Odyssey PC680, or a PVR25. Both are the same spec but far cheaper than a Varley red top 25, and should easily start a 20vt without trouble at all.

    I run one in my mini running 12:1 CR and it'll spin it over no trouble, even after a month of sitting in a cold garage!
  30. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Thats an interesting one to bear in mind. Thanks dude. Are they motorcycle batteries?
  31. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    Guys,(and Gals!)

    There is a pretty detailed discussion that i think you should be aware regarding certain potiental serious issues regarding the CR K04 Hybrid on the BAM engine, its 6pages but well worth the read if you are considering this turbo.Luckily Welly didn't run into these, i think he was dealt enough bad luck with the 034 manifold.

    hybrid K04 + 3inch TIP + hi-flow Discussion Thread. - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  32. DaveA3
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    DaveA3 Audi A-Trizzle!

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    robbie u got a link or something mate?
  33. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    Doh, posted edited.
  34. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Thanks Rob :thumbsup:
  35. finesse
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    finesse Active Member

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    blaaa excuse my ignorance I thought since it is a hybrid of a K04, it would plug & play :) just require supporting mods to manifest its full potential & offer advantages over a BT

    I'm just learning :)
  36. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    It is "plug'N'play" to an extend, its really hasn't been tried before with supporting mods in the BAM 225 engine, the key aspect of the thread details that if its on a BAM 225 + 3" TIP + highflow manifold you will more than likely run into surge issues.This never showed itself before as there was always restrictions on what this turbo could do(flow), i.e retrictive intakes that in effect modified the compressor map so the surge lines was more left therefor we could run more boost low down without the issue, maybe some cavitation but this was only an indication that the surge line was close and not to serious just bloody annoying. Now with the introduction of the new mods, highflow mani, 3" TIP etc... it has allowed the compressor to function nearer or in its natural envirnoment based on the calculation from the 2283 compressor map and has shown the exhaust side of the turbo cannot cope with what an 2283 comp wheel can flow at, so effectively there is an imbalance between the two.

    It must be noted this is the most dangerous type of surge and only occurs at WOT

    THere is abit more to it than that and its bit of a head **** but there is an issue.

    TurboByGarrett.com - FAQ's

    and Under surge line.

    TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech103
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  37. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    OK, so some photos, and a description of plans going forwards.

    Fix this:

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, they are a bit on the poorly side.

    Fixing those will also include fitting these:

    [​IMG]

    They are now cleaned and ready to be painted when I get home. Then I will be fitting them later on in the evening.

    Hopefully this (the fitting of new calis) will aide in the fixing of a problem that has been bugging me for a little while now...

    Fit catch can:

    I have made a space for it to be sited now, so all I need is to get some hose and a T piece to suit.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This is where it is going to live. Easy access for draining and viewing the level thingy.

    Fit WMI:

    I now have a working controller and a plan...

    The plan is to use the screenwash tank as the WMI tank, and retrofit another smaller tank elsewhere to use for screen wash.

    Most likely I will site this tank in the boot. The reason for this being that I don't use my rear wiper, and the pipe for the rear washer is disconnected. I plan to use this pipe to allow me to get the screenwash fluid from the boot to wherever the pump lives, and that is that.

    [​IMG]

    Source and Fit exhaust mani:

    The current bain of my existance frankly. A reliable high flow manifold seems to be impossible to find annoyingly.

    However I am being shipped 2 stainless steel exhaust manis to suit the K04 for testing purposes. I won't give details on manufacturer until these have been proven to both fit, and work reliably. In fairness, after my previous manifold saga, I can't see them not out lasting 1000 miles....:tapedshut:.

    I will take photos when they arrive and I will be honest about them. Hopefully they will prove to be a cost effective alternative...

    Finally, here are the promised photos of my MBC/N75 parallel install. Not as pretty as Tuffty's... lol, however, functional and working. You can't see the UNOS because it is mounted up on the bulkhead out of harm's way.

    [​IMG]
  38. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    Welly, i use my Screen washer bottle for both, WMI and the windows, i never use my rear washer.I only use my front washer under extreme circumstances, just a little squirt here and there.Most heavy duty screen wash use Methanol and as long as it not over 50% it won't damage your paint.Another mod i am doing to use even less screen wash on the actual windows screen is to replace the crappy hose like nozzle on the Leon for the Citreon ones, they use less spray but use it better, sort of like a mist. I guess it all depends on how much Methanol you want to carry around, but i find the 3.5l tank in the Leon enough, i also carry a spare 2l in the boot.

    Result on the controller btw.
  39. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Interesting point , and the other point is that the mix won't ever be over 50/50 anyway so there is no danger of damaging paint work.

    Think I would rather have a separate tank mate to be fair. It would be very very easy to rig up using the pipe that's already there. The reason being that I do a lot of motorway miles, and especially in the winter, you are giving the screen a blast every few mins as it gets filthy.

    Also, I have my concerns about running out of methanol by accident. I do tend to be a bit right foot heavy (hence the above pic of my brakes...), and the last thing I want to be doing is running out of the good stuff.... :(. Spare bit in the boot is a good plan.

    How fast do you get through it?
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2011
  40. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    i would check the bottles of the screenwash.. a lot use ethanol not methanol

    remember folks.. 50/50 mix does burn... with colourless flame - dont ask me how I know this...
    firestarter, twisted firestarter!

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