1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Another hybrid conversion thread....

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User Audi A4 quattro

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    12,992
    Likes Received:
    386
    Looks like i didn't need to....

    Always an option if nowt happens etc etc

    GL with it
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide this advert.
  3. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    FYI, the mani has now been removed from ebay awaiting 034 Motorsport and INA Engineering.

    A relief I must say.
     
  4. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User Audi A4 quattro

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    12,992
    Likes Received:
    386
    Lets see what occurs..
     
  5. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    OK, so, moving on from the manifold saga, I continue on my merry way for now.

    Whilst I wait for 034 to sort something out with new materials for casting, I am going to crack on with the WMI and get that in and done ready for the new manifold (whoever makes it....) to arrive and get fitted etc.

    Looking to start work next weekend on this, as I want a weekend off to play on the Playstation and drink beer.... Plus I have some bits to source and sort out in the interim.
     
  6. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
  7. Speedy Steve

    Speedy Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    15
    what happened to the group buy you git save me money god dame you


    ( oh wait you have by finding out the manifold was poo) lmao
     
  8. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    In my defence dude, I haven't bought it from Devil's own. I've cobbled together the various bits instead.
     
  9. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    17,783
    Likes Received:
    2,204
    Will defo look to sort this out in the new year mate as I want WMI too... in a seperate thread of course rather than spam Welly's thread up :thumbsup:

    <tuffty/>
     
  10. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    I like spam....:think:

    [​IMG]

    Just kidding....
     
  11. Alex C

    Alex C Well-Known Member
    VCDS Map User Audi S3

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    240
    replica handbags anyone... :)
     
  12. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    You bastard, you must have read my mind. I genuinely thought about posting EXACTLY that this morning!! Great minds think alike... lol.

    :thumbsup:
     
  13. Alex C

    Alex C Well-Known Member
    VCDS Map User Audi S3

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    240
    lol
     
  14. RobbieRolex

    RobbieRolex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    2
  15. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,057
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    Calling GregP - can you contact me re 3 inch tip
    thanks
     
  16. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    OK - work has stopped on this currently due to lack of funds with Christmas on the horizon.... Bah humbug, and a moaning girlfriend.

    Hoping to get back on this this weekend in anger....
     
  17. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    OK - a bit of a revival here.

    WMI has temporarily been shelved - I have had no time at all to even consider getting anything done, as Christmas shopping etc has taken precedence annoyingly.

    In the short term - I need to pipe my N75 in parallel to the MBC. Not for me, as I know how to drive it OK as it is. However, my missus is now insured, and insists on driving the thing - which I don't mind, but she uses mid throttle a lot and the turbo doesn't know whether it's coming or going.

    Also will be fitting a catch can reasonably soon, as I want one basically. Another thing to find room for under the bonnet...

    Next on the list is WMI - but that will probably get looked at between Xmas and New Year when I have some time off work.

    Still awaiting firm dates on a reasonable replacement high flow manifold. JBS don't have any currently, and likely won't until the new year.

    Its annoying as I am so close to getting this project finished and a line drawn underneath it, BUT small things are stopping me... :mad:
     
  18. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8,309
    Likes Received:
    1,541
    all in good time.

    i like the way you say your mrs uses mid throttle, implying with you its all or nothing haha, nice.
     
  19. Speedy Steve

    Speedy Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    15
    Welly i think you'll be like me a never ending project!
     
  20. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    :whistle2:

    I'm not known for being a slow driver....
     
  21. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    Hmmmm, as much as it pains me. I get bored so quickly if I've not got something in hand.

    I really want an RS4 lump....
     
  22. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide this advert.
  23. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    Well peoples.... Results from the evening work...

    I have done the N75C/MBC parallel installation this evening, as I had feck all else to do....

    Anyway, easy enough to do in fairness - diagram below:

    [​IMG]

    Got the idea from Tuffty who has been having the same driveability issues as me. The turbo trying to achieve full boost all the time kills MPG really badly, as well as giving a lot of compressor stall mid throttle which isn't the best.

    Anyway, did some logs before and after. Will take photos of the install during the light tomorrow - it's a bit dark out there at the moment.

    Before logs:

    Code:
    Monday	13	December	2010	18:49:08											
    8L0 906 018 N		1.8L R4/5VT     G   0002													
    															
    	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'115			
    		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
    	TIME					TIME					TIME				
    Marker	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar
    	143.4	2240	39.8	2.87	16.11	143.89	0	0	0	0	142.99	2200	39.8	1010	1060
    	144.79	2240	39.8	2.87	16.72	145.19	0	0	0	0	144.39	2240	39.8	1010	1060
    	145.99	2280	50.4	4.1	25.75	146.39	0	0	0	0	145.6	2240	39.1	1010	1060
    	147.28	2560	125.6	8.61	65.69	147.7	0	0	0	0	146.9	2440	108.3	2020	1250
    	148.59	3240	191.7	15.58	143.86	148.99	6	3	3	6	148.1	2920	184.2	2550	1920
    	149.81	4080	191.7	17.22	186.17	150.29	5.3	2.3	3	5.3	149.39	3800	191.7	2550	2520
    	151.09	4960	191.7	18.45	225.42	151.49	5.3	2.3	3	6.8	150.69	4720	191.7	2550	2540
    	152.29	5760	191.7	18.45	252.81	152.78	3.8	2.3	3	6	151.89	5480	191.7	2550	2530
    	153.7	6520	191.7	17.63	259.67	154.1	2.3	2.3	2.3	3.8	153.3	6320	191.7	2550	2470
    	154.9	7040	191.7	15.99	268.19	155.41	1.5	1.5	1.5	2.3	154.5	6880	191.7	2550	2440
    	156.29	7600	185.7	14.76	269.22	156.69	0	0	0	0	155.89	7400	190.2	2550	2470
    
    So... from these the main concern was the timing pull. Over 6's is bad, so I backed the timing down a little after these logs.

    After logs:
    Code:
    Monday	13	December	2010	21:17:24											
    8L0 906 018 N		1.8L R4/5VT     G   0002													
    															
    	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'115			
    		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
    	TIME					TIME					TIME				
    Marker	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar
    	296.84	2000	18	1.23	3	297.25	0	0	0	0	296.44	1680	13.5	1710	1030
    	298.15	2280	35.3	3.28	17.17	298.55	0	0	0	0	297.65	2280	19.5	1010	1040
    	299.35	2480	95.5	6.15	49.97	299.75	0	0	0	0	298.95	2400	71.4	1010	1070
    	300.55	2960	191.7	13.94	130.75	300.95	0	0	0	3	300.15	2760	151.9	2550	1580
    	301.75	3920	191.7	17.63	200	302.18	3	3	3	3	301.35	3560	191.7	2550	2500
    	303.04	4920	191.7	18.45	227.97	303.56	3	6	3	2.3	302.64	4640	191.7	2550	2540
    	304.36	5800	191.7	18.45	263.22	304.76	3	5.3	3	2.3	303.96	5560	191.7	2550	2540
    	305.56	6440	191.7	18.45	267.31	305.96	3	5.3	2.3	2.3	305.16	6240	191.7	2550	2520
    	306.76	6960	191.7	17.22	275	307.16	2.3	4.5	2.3	2.3	306.36	6800	191.7	2550	2490
    	307.99	7320	191.7	16.4	275.58	308.34	0	0	0	0	307.54	7200	191.7	2550	2500
    
    From looking at the two side by side, its a surprising result. The N75/MBC combination actually holds boost better at the top end of the rev band. A surprising result to be fair.

    Backing the timing down has brought the pull back into reasonable tolerances as well.

    Based on this, airflow is up on what it was previously, seeing 269 g/s before the change and 275.5 g/s post change. This is mainly due to the turbo holding boost better towards the top end of the rev band.

    Interesting.... :think:
     
  24. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8,309
    Likes Received:
    1,541
    would this have any sort of benefit on a standard turbo'd car?
     
  25. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    Hmmmm, not really, the MBC is there to cap an otherwise uncontrollable boost spike from the hybrid.

    Maybe useful on Stage 2 cars.
     
  26. Dane

    Dane Had an 8L S3, a B5 RS4 now I have a B8 S4

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,049
    Likes Received:
    148
    6's are nothing... lol,

    good work dude!
     
  27. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    Hmmmmmmm... :think:
     
  28. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    732
    Nice results, is it just bleeding a bit of the wastgate pressure from the n75 then, instead of all or nothing that mbc,s tend to do....
     
  29. INA

    INA http://www.inaengineering.com

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    6
    I only get pointed towards posts that are sent to me. I didnt expect Bill to post this on every forum he was on.....only on SCN (where the situation took place). Whatever the case I have been and will take care of all the customers involved like I have done in the past.
     
  30. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,057
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    The "situation" took place here Issam
    SCN was secondary.. He drives an Audi S3, this is an Audi forum.. SCN is a SEAT Forum

    MANY folks were and are very eager in anticipation of a Reliable hi-flow k04 exhaust manifold..

    this remains the case...
    the ball is firmly in your/034 court to make this good for both Welly the customer who is without a reliable hi-flow manifold he has paid for currently, and has lost his power whilst back on stock k04 manifold.. Which keeps running without falling apart, from the very same tune as the 034 one failed on.

    A reliable ETA on the new cast material manifolds is still being asked I think

    you could sell plenty if its reliable...
     
  31. Dane

    Dane Had an 8L S3, a B5 RS4 now I have a B8 S4

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,049
    Likes Received:
    148
    I was having a joke at my expense as I was pulling 12's
     
  32. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    LOL, I know dude, I got it..... hehe :thumbsup:
     
  33. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    Anyway, really pleased with last night's work.

    MPG on the motorway this morning has dramatically improved. Getting 32+ MPG at part throttle and on cruise control which is far better than the ~28 I was getting.

    It's much more driveable as well. Before, on MBC only, even on light throttle, the turbo was winding up to try and achieve full boost. This was irritating...
     
  34. Speedy Steve

    Speedy Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    15
    what you doing driving on part throttle anyway welly you big girl !!!!!!!!!! WOT FTW
     
  35. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    I do lots of motorway miles mate, and the missus is now insured and wants to drive it as well. It was a bit too lary for her all the time as it was, now it's a better all rounder, as well as more powerful...
     
  36. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,057
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    sent ya an interesting email mate
     
  37. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120
    Read and responded...

    Ding ding. I believe thats the bell for round 2.
     
  38. DaveA3

    DaveA3 Audi A-Trizzle!

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    15
    aww i wanna be nosey :(
     
  39. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,057
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    Lies and liars will always come acropper, particularly when they say so many to so many people, and people do talk to people and these things get found out..
     
  40. finesse

    finesse Active Member
    VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,811
    Likes Received:
    10
  41. Dane

    Dane Had an 8L S3, a B5 RS4 now I have a B8 S4

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,049
    Likes Received:
    148
    and a big pot of vaseline
     
  42. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    120

Share This Page