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Another hybrid conversion thread....

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Bill/Welly, i am thinking about this more, could it be that the smaller runners are causing increased velocity in the exhaust gases, inturn causes the turbo to spool faster/earlier and the thing with the Hybrid K04 is that it can cope with this as opposed to the OEM K04-22/23 that is a fan of self induced asphyxiation, i can only liken it to blowing down a straw instead of a 2" pipe. I am just trying to get my head around the results.
  2. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 19, 2010]
    ...you must have read my post... I mean mind!! ;P

    <tuffty/>
  3. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 19, 2010]
    LOL, no i didn't, i was skimming posts, ah well, great minds think alike i guess.
  4. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 19, 2010]
    word....

    <tuffty/>
  5. Sandip
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    Sandip Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Ssshhh......:sly:
  6. s3 Hoggy
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    s3 Hoggy Whats going on???

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    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Ah I thought it might of been you mate!
  7. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 20, 2010]
    lol, how you managed to blag that I don't know!!
  8. S3 Nattie
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    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    [Nov 20, 2010]
    Welly how come your rpm and g/s is up and down/ The rpm goes from 4000 to 7000 then to 6000 in the logs above and the g/s are up and down.....

    Nathan
  9. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 20, 2010]
    I was driving through the gears to replicate the log I already had dude....
  10. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 20, 2010]
    another jbs mani running hybrid k04 also
  11. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 20, 2010]
    Welly/Bill what can the BAM 225 engine stafely rev to with uprated rods, i always get scared at about 7k rpm :ohmy:, but i notice from your graphs and Welly's logs 7.5k rpm is a regular occurance.
  12. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 20, 2010]
    Rods not the problem dude, it's the standard valve train. I don't take it to much more than 7 on the road normally. My rev limiter is 7800 and it sees that on the dyno often....
  13. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    So what can be done to uprate the Valve train, what have you done?
  14. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    I haven't done anything mate, mine is OEM. The OEM kit is on it's limits at the 7800 rev limit.

    Supertech titanium valves and springs will allow for further revs, but not really needed on our setups.

    It's just a bit of a arse pulsing moment when you rise over the 7K mark. lol.
  15. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    True That, So my BAM 225 should be fine at 7k rpm, this is what my limiter will be set at?
    Did you do any video of your acceleration yet, i did this last night, wheelspin is a killer though.

    YouTube - IMG 0103
  16. badger5
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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    7800rpm on stock valve springs is my personal limit... and what i ran for 35k miles on my ibiza when ihi'd - but only worth using if you have power pulling up there
  17. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    My little Hybrid runs out of puff before those revs !
    I feels the power seem to drop above 6k
  18. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Whose your hybrid by again paul?
  19. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Awaiting Bill's post before doing mine....lol
  20. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    you bastard!

    Come on Welly, spill the beans!

    ''runs to check facebook to see if he can find info there''

    Edit: nothing on facebook either :(
  21. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Yeah... come on Welly!!... oh... just a minute... I was there!! :p

    <tuffty/>
  22. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    and???????????????????
  23. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    OK, due to Bill's sire being broko, he can't upload the graphs.

    I've kept you in suspense long enough.

    Anyway, long and short of it is that the logs were in fact the red herring.

    Power has now dropped down to around the 300 BHP mark with the OEM manifold fitted. Disappointing to say the least.

    We had to make several adjustments to the config of the map, including fuelling, which shows just how much this affects the engine.

    Boost has also had to be dropped

    It looks like the OEM manifold strangles the flow to the point that it just can't get the air out.

    The torque is falling much faster than it did with the 034 on.

    Everything does fire up around 800 RPM faster though, which is interesting, yet seems to be counter productive.

    So, the facts are on the table people. The high flow manifolds do aid flow as thought before.

    This seems to be more apparent on the large port heads ultimately. The smaller port engines don't seem to suffer so much from the smaller runner on the OEM manifold.

    Anyway, regardless, I am 30 BHP down from the ported K04 manifold.

    Conclusion - they do make a difference in peak power. Although I would say the it is more useable with the OEM manifold fitted due to the earlier spool.

    Time to look for a third manifold.... :(. JBS looks to be the winner.

    Welly is sad :(
  24. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    He has cracked it.......lol
  25. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Starting to wish I'd not fitted the bloody AGU head now.... Seems to be nothing but a pain unless everything else around it can flow uber air.
  26. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Nowt wrong with luvverly large ports ;P

    <tuffty/>
  27. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    hum interesting think we should try a ported manifold on a small port head
  28. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Dont be sad Welly every body knows silver is more powerful than yellow
  29. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Always.... :).... EDIT: Besides, it's the torque that pulls you.... :p.... lol :thumbsup:

    Just disappointed to have lost that much. I knew that the large port head was really dependant on good flow, but that was a shock. Especially based on the logs :(.

    Still, like I said, will just have to fit another one when a reliable one becomes available - it seems imperative on my setup to make good powwwwwaaarrrrrr.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2010
  30. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    There is when they're blowing into a set of 4 straws....

    lol
  31. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Im suprised you did not notice the loss on the road, chin up you will get there, im getting one custom made and will do logs before and after....
  32. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Where from dude?

    To be honest, I'm surprised as well. The torque is actually a little more than it was, but it does drop off faster.

    You're right though, it genuinely feels/felt faster on the road.
  33. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Would be interesting. Seems to stop it getting as hot if nothing else.
  34. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    It's the quick sppol that made it feel faster i recon.

    So gonna risk putting the 034 Ceramic on?
    Or the Xs power?
    Or we going free air, and ear plugs?
  35. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Im getting the header lazer cut and a local exhaust specialist is making up the tubes, and fabricating it. Ive told him to keep all measurements if it runs well, so he can replicate, im paying quite a premium for it making, but it will be my manifold for further production...
  36. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    At this point, knowing the head will have to come off again, I'm considering binning the hybrid project altogether and looking towards a big turbo setup.

    This hybrid, and it's development thus far has caused me untold misery, various disappointments, and a **** load of work and money. It's required 3 head gaskets, bolts, and all the various other parts.

    Admittedly the 034 saga hasn't helped matters, but it's just my luck!

    It takes a LOT for me to get fed up with a project, and I mean a lot, and I have stayed reasonably optimistic thus far. BUT, I am just genuinely pissed off with the fact that I am going to have to do this all again, for the fourth time.

    Fitting a manifold on an S3, not an easy or small task.

    Rant over.
  37. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    034 can suck the long one. I won't be fitting another one of their products until hell freezes over. Or pigs fly. Whichever comes first.

    XS power is tempting, but I suspect the thing will just fall apart, and I'll be back here. And I don't want to be.

    I am going to put some serious thought into my next move, and not attack it gung ho like I usually do.

    This car has literally cost me thousands of pounds this year, and the financial toll is beginning to tell.
  38. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Yes dont touch XS frying pan /fire syndrome......
    Gutted for you mate genuinely.....If it is a consolation, you have helped others in the pitfalls, i know it does not help financially but its there.....
  39. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    GT30 welly.....

    it's the only sensible move!

    Having made 330bhp already on a hybrid, it seems pointless to go with a gt28, you may as well just go straight to a GT30!
  40. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 21, 2010]
    Buy Pauls Gt30, so he can go Gt35....

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