1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Another hybrid conversion thread....

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. RobbieRolex

    RobbieRolex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    2
    Bill/Welly, i am thinking about this more, could it be that the smaller runners are causing increased velocity in the exhaust gases, inturn causes the turbo to spool faster/earlier and the thing with the Hybrid K04 is that it can cope with this as opposed to the OEM K04-22/23 that is a fan of self induced asphyxiation, i can only liken it to blowing down a straw instead of a 2" pipe. I am just trying to get my head around the results.
     
  2. Advert Guest Advertisement


  3. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    19,747
    Likes Received:
    3,170
    ...you must have read my post... I mean mind!! ;P

    <tuffty/>
     
  4. RobbieRolex

    RobbieRolex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    2
    LOL, no i didn't, i was skimming posts, ah well, great minds think alike i guess.
     
  5. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    19,747
    Likes Received:
    3,170
    word....

    <tuffty/>
     
  6. Sandip

    Sandip Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,435
    Likes Received:
    86
    Ssshhh......:sly:
     
  7. s3 Hoggy

    s3 Hoggy Whats going on???

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    112
    Ah I thought it might of been you mate!
     
  8. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    lol, how you managed to blag that I don't know!!
     
  9. S3 Nattie

    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,599
    Likes Received:
    7
    Welly how come your rpm and g/s is up and down/ The rpm goes from 4000 to 7000 then to 6000 in the logs above and the g/s are up and down.....

    Nathan
     
  10. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    I was driving through the gears to replicate the log I already had dude....
     
  11. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,980
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    another jbs mani running hybrid k04 also
     
  12. RobbieRolex

    RobbieRolex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    2
    Welly/Bill what can the BAM 225 engine stafely rev to with uprated rods, i always get scared at about 7k rpm :ohmy:, but i notice from your graphs and Welly's logs 7.5k rpm is a regular occurance.
     
  13. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    Rods not the problem dude, it's the standard valve train. I don't take it to much more than 7 on the road normally. My rev limiter is 7800 and it sees that on the dyno often....
     
  14. RobbieRolex

    RobbieRolex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    2
    So what can be done to uprate the Valve train, what have you done?
     
  15. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    I haven't done anything mate, mine is OEM. The OEM kit is on it's limits at the 7800 rev limit.

    Supertech titanium valves and springs will allow for further revs, but not really needed on our setups.

    It's just a bit of a arse pulsing moment when you rise over the 7K mark. lol.
     
  16. RobbieRolex

    RobbieRolex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    2
    True That, So my BAM 225 should be fine at 7k rpm, this is what my limiter will be set at?
    Did you do any video of your acceleration yet, i did this last night, wheelspin is a killer though.

    YouTube - IMG 0103
     
  17. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,980
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    7800rpm on stock valve springs is my personal limit... and what i ran for 35k miles on my ibiza when ihi'd - but only worth using if you have power pulling up there
     
  18. S3 Paul

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member
    Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,814
    Likes Received:
    95
    My little Hybrid runs out of puff before those revs !
    I feels the power seem to drop above 6k
     
  19. Dani_B19

    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8,577
    Likes Received:
    245
    Whose your hybrid by again paul?
     
  20. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    Awaiting Bill's post before doing mine....lol
     
  21. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,109
    Likes Received:
    2,732
    you bastard!

    Come on Welly, spill the beans!

    ''runs to check facebook to see if he can find info there''

    Edit: nothing on facebook either :(
     
  22. Advert Guest Advertisement



    to hide this advert.
  23. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    19,747
    Likes Received:
    3,170
    Yeah... come on Welly!!... oh... just a minute... I was there!! :p

    <tuffty/>
     
  24. Speedy Steve

    Speedy Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    16
    and???????????????????
     
  25. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    OK, due to Bill's sire being broko, he can't upload the graphs.

    I've kept you in suspense long enough.

    Anyway, long and short of it is that the logs were in fact the red herring.

    Power has now dropped down to around the 300 BHP mark with the OEM manifold fitted. Disappointing to say the least.

    We had to make several adjustments to the config of the map, including fuelling, which shows just how much this affects the engine.

    Boost has also had to be dropped

    It looks like the OEM manifold strangles the flow to the point that it just can't get the air out.

    The torque is falling much faster than it did with the 034 on.

    Everything does fire up around 800 RPM faster though, which is interesting, yet seems to be counter productive.

    So, the facts are on the table people. The high flow manifolds do aid flow as thought before.

    This seems to be more apparent on the large port heads ultimately. The smaller port engines don't seem to suffer so much from the smaller runner on the OEM manifold.

    Anyway, regardless, I am 30 BHP down from the ported K04 manifold.

    Conclusion - they do make a difference in peak power. Although I would say the it is more useable with the OEM manifold fitted due to the earlier spool.

    Time to look for a third manifold.... :(. JBS looks to be the winner.

    Welly is sad :(
     
  26. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,114
    Likes Received:
    736
    He has cracked it.......lol
     
  27. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    Starting to wish I'd not fitted the bloody AGU head now.... Seems to be nothing but a pain unless everything else around it can flow uber air.
     
  28. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    19,747
    Likes Received:
    3,170
    Nowt wrong with luvverly large ports ;P

    <tuffty/>
     
  29. Speedy Steve

    Speedy Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    16
    hum interesting think we should try a ported manifold on a small port head
     
  30. Speedy Steve

    Speedy Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    16
    Dont be sad Welly every body knows silver is more powerful than yellow
     
  31. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    Always.... :).... EDIT: Besides, it's the torque that pulls you.... :p.... lol :thumbsup:

    Just disappointed to have lost that much. I knew that the large port head was really dependant on good flow, but that was a shock. Especially based on the logs :(.

    Still, like I said, will just have to fit another one when a reliable one becomes available - it seems imperative on my setup to make good powwwwwaaarrrrrr.
     
    #869 Welly, Nov 21, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2010
  32. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    There is when they're blowing into a set of 4 straws....

    lol
     
  33. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,114
    Likes Received:
    736
    Im suprised you did not notice the loss on the road, chin up you will get there, im getting one custom made and will do logs before and after....
     
  34. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    Where from dude?

    To be honest, I'm surprised as well. The torque is actually a little more than it was, but it does drop off faster.

    You're right though, it genuinely feels/felt faster on the road.
     
  35. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    Would be interesting. Seems to stop it getting as hot if nothing else.
     
  36. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    13,165
    Likes Received:
    452
    It's the quick sppol that made it feel faster i recon.

    So gonna risk putting the 034 Ceramic on?
    Or the Xs power?
    Or we going free air, and ear plugs?
     
  37. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,114
    Likes Received:
    736
    Im getting the header lazer cut and a local exhaust specialist is making up the tubes, and fabricating it. Ive told him to keep all measurements if it runs well, so he can replicate, im paying quite a premium for it making, but it will be my manifold for further production...
     
  38. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    At this point, knowing the head will have to come off again, I'm considering binning the hybrid project altogether and looking towards a big turbo setup.

    This hybrid, and it's development thus far has caused me untold misery, various disappointments, and a **** load of work and money. It's required 3 head gaskets, bolts, and all the various other parts.

    Admittedly the 034 saga hasn't helped matters, but it's just my luck!

    It takes a LOT for me to get fed up with a project, and I mean a lot, and I have stayed reasonably optimistic thus far. BUT, I am just genuinely pissed off with the fact that I am going to have to do this all again, for the fourth time.

    Fitting a manifold on an S3, not an easy or small task.

    Rant over.
     
  39. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,696
    Likes Received:
    124
    034 can suck the long one. I won't be fitting another one of their products until hell freezes over. Or pigs fly. Whichever comes first.

    XS power is tempting, but I suspect the thing will just fall apart, and I'll be back here. And I don't want to be.

    I am going to put some serious thought into my next move, and not attack it gung ho like I usually do.

    This car has literally cost me thousands of pounds this year, and the financial toll is beginning to tell.
     
  40. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,114
    Likes Received:
    736
    Yes dont touch XS frying pan /fire syndrome......
    Gutted for you mate genuinely.....If it is a consolation, you have helped others in the pitfalls, i know it does not help financially but its there.....
     
  41. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,109
    Likes Received:
    2,732
    GT30 welly.....

    it's the only sensible move!

    Having made 330bhp already on a hybrid, it seems pointless to go with a gt28, you may as well just go straight to a GT30!
     
  42. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    13,165
    Likes Received:
    452
    Buy Pauls Gt30, so he can go Gt35....
     

Share This Page