1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Another hybrid conversion thread....

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. rob_sri
    Offline

    rob_sri If in doubt, flat out

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 18, 2010]
    im going to try and get ashley exhausts to develop a manifold down-pipe and full system and then sell them at discounted rates on here... if anybody is interested ;)
  2. The Stig
    Offline

    The Stig Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 18, 2010]
    Hi Robbie
    what tools are you using to port the manifold?
  3. RobbieRolex
    Offline

    RobbieRolex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 18, 2010]
  4. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 18, 2010]
    Well, a bit of a turn up for the books....

    The car genuinely feel quicker with the ported OEM than it did with the 034.

    Also, getting the same, if not slightly higher g/s readings than I was with the 034.

    Not an acid test, but a good indicator. Should be on the rollers for some comparison runs on Sunday....
  5. RobbieRolex
    Offline

    RobbieRolex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 18, 2010]
    WOW, i am completely discombobulated by this result, Do you plan on doing any logs? i bet it feels nice to have her on the road again.
  6. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 18, 2010]
    I will as soon as I get 5 mins dude, yes.
  7. Speedy Steve
    Offline

    Speedy Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,250
    Likes Received:
    8
    [Nov 18, 2010]
    Sweet nice one Bill and Welly!
  8. Broken Byzan
    Offline

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    12,728
    Likes Received:
    314
    [Nov 18, 2010]
    That's put a large moggy amoungst the birds that always **** on my car..

    I have just sent my log mani in to be skimmed, and now i don't know whether to use it or go OEM again..

    Tho i dii fit mine in an aid of keeping EGTs down, and seeing you had a glowing mani before it must have offered some resistance.

    Sunday you say?
  9. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,312
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    [Nov 18, 2010]
    Sounds good mate... I suspect the smaller runners could be helping with earlier spool giving the feeling of enhanced quickness... be interesting to see the results Sunday though.... and of course to see what colour we can get the mani to glow ;P

    <tuffty/>
  10. Speedy Steve
    Offline

    Speedy Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,250
    Likes Received:
    8
    [Nov 18, 2010]
    i bet white!
  11. JD09
    Offline

    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,089
    Likes Received:
    36
    [Nov 18, 2010]
    Hi.

    What do I win?

    Thanks.
  12. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    OK, after a brief technical hitch.... lol.... my pictures are now working again.

    So for the benefit of those who missed it, here are the pics of the damaged 034 manifold:

    [​IMG]

    You can clearly see daylight through this one when held up...

    [​IMG]

    The second crack...
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  13. Imteyaz
    Offline

    Imteyaz 6th Gear

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Welly - I can't see them.....
  14. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. It's not you dude, my hosting company decided to switch my hosting from Windows to Linux for no apparent reason, shagging everything completely in the process!! lol.

    I shall keep working on it...

    EDIT: Should be fixed.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  15. Alex C
    Offline

    Alex C Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    2,777
    Likes Received:
    196
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    yeah, i see them anyway, wow cracked all over the place. How loud did it blow? can you hear it really easilly?
  16. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Yes mate, it was REALLY loud indeed. Most of the noise was coming from the crack on the top of runner 4, the first picture.

    It sounded awful, which is why I wasn't hanging around in getting it done.

    It's also left carbon residue all over my bonnet to give you an idea of how much gas was coming out...
  17. DaveA3
    Offline

    DaveA3 Audi A-Trizzle!

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,374
    Likes Received:
    14
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    so welly mate where are the logs of the ported oem mani? cant wait to see the results lol
  18. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Not done them as yet dude, have been off work the last 2 days and left my laptop with VCDS at work.... D'oh.

    Will get them done tonight and post for all to see....
  19. Imteyaz
    Offline

    Imteyaz 6th Gear

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Wow, I can only imagine how after getting nice and hot, them cracks will expand from the heat and make a racket as a result. Seems like the only manufactures of manifolds that will last are OEM and JBS.

    Cost-wise, with the OEM manifold being cheaper (and more readily available) the ported OEM manifold looks to be a winner.

    Welly, I salute you - I would have sold up if it was my car a long time ago, you have persevered throughout and kept us updated with regular pics. I don't have an S3 but your thread (and attached banter within) is one of the few I keep my eye on when I'm on this forum.
  20. DaveA3
    Offline

    DaveA3 Audi A-Trizzle!

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,374
    Likes Received:
    14
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    sweet lookin forward to it dude!
  21. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Thanks dude. What can I say, I'm just a sucker for punishment, and like a challenge.... lol.

    Anyway, the dyno will be the acid test on the performance of the ported manifold.

    The dyno doesn't lie at the end of the day.

    Figures thus far are encouraging however, and driveability is much improved, which can only be a good thing, if it also encompasses reliability.
  22. Broken Byzan
    Offline

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    12,728
    Likes Received:
    314
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    How did you notice against you current colour scheme :p
  23. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    LOL, the underside of the bonnet is still yellow!!
  24. Alex C
    Offline

    Alex C Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    2,777
    Likes Received:
    196
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    was yellow
  25. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    ^ What he said....
  26. Broken Byzan
    Offline

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    12,728
    Likes Received:
    314
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    I know, just couldn't think of anything else constructive to say,LOL
  27. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    :slap:
  28. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Following from SCN thread on similar subject matter..........

    [​IMG]

    also as a handy ref..
    Garrett suggest 10bhp for every lb/min flow

    265g/s is 35lb/min ~350bhp airflows where my dyno has seen 332bhp

    Plausable!
  29. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    That's a really interesting plot.

    Off hand Bill, do you remember what Matt's A3 was putting out g/s wise, as a basis for comparison to the above?
  30. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    if I can find logs (you know what I may struggle with here) yea.. will do
  31. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Lol, yes indeedy, look on your External HDD....

    If not, don't fret about it, it was only from an interest point of view. :thumbsup:
  32. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    its there somewhere - i know - its been restored a couple of times so far
  33. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Nothing like having it there for emergencies.... lol.
  34. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    redownloading revo files now on the spare remote drive... big ole file
  35. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    OK, logs as promised.

    Ambient temp outside tonight is 8.0 degrees Celsius.

    Results - surprising... Displayed below are Blocks 002 and 020.

    Logs with 034 Manifold fitted:

    Code:
    	Group A:	'002				Group C:	'020			
    		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
    	TIME					TIME				
    Marker	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
    	147.11	840	23.3	2.05	4.06	146.71	0	0	0	0
    	148.3	1240	45.9	3.69	10.92	147.9	0	0	0	0
    	149.5	1440	52.6	3.69	13.25	149.09	0	0	0	0
    	150.69	2360	77.4	5.74	36.08	150.3	0	0	0	0
    	151.9	4040	177.4	10.66	153.31	151.5	0	0	0	0
    	153.11	7480	187.2	15.17	264.14	152.71	0	0	0	0.8
    	154.41	6040	191.7	17.63	254.06	153.93	0	0	0	2.3
    	155.61	7400	188	15.17	265.83	155.21	0	0	0	2.3
    	156.81	5520	191.7	18.45	245.67	156.41	0	0.8	0	2.3
    	158.01	6280	191.7	18.04	258.81	157.61	3	0.8	0	1.5
    	159.21	6840	191.7	16.81	264.14	158.81	3	0.8	0	0
    	169.8	4480	3	0	2.97	170.59	0	0	0	0
    	171.09	4160	6	0	5.64	172.1	0	0	0	0
    
    With ported OEM manifold fitted:

    Code:
    	Group A:	'002				Group C:	'020			
    		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
    	TIME					TIME				
    Marker	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
    	240.99	3520	125.6	9.02	93.69	241.38	0	0	0	0
    	242.41	5440	191.7	18.45	244.83	242.89	3	0	0	3
    	243.8	7120	191.7	15.99	267.53	244.28	2.3	0	0	3.8
    	245.08	5480	191.7	18.45	249.42	245.48	0	2.3	0	3.8
    	246.28	6240	191.7	18.04	258.81	246.68	0	1.5	0	3.8
    	247.48	6840	191.7	16.81	267.53	247.88	0	0.8	0	3
    	248.68	7320	190.2	15.58	266.39	249.1	0	0	0	1.5
    	249.99	5840	191.7	18.04	251.94	250.49	0	1.5	0	3
    	251.29	6200	191.7	18.04	255.36	251.69	0	0.8	0	3
    	252.49	6520	191.7	17.63	258.58	252.98	0	0	0	1.5
    	253.78	6840	191.7	16.81	264.14	254.28	0	0	0	0
    	255.19	7120	191.7	15.99	264.69	255.59	0	0	0	0
    	256.39	5640	3.8	1.23	0.19	256.77	0	0	0	0
    	257.57	5400	3.8	0	4.69	257.97	0	0	0	0
    
    Another section from the same log:

    Code:
    	Group A:	'002				Group C:	'020			
    		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
    	TIME					TIME				
    Marker	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
    	118.65	3920	55.6	3.69	62.17	117.84	0	0	0	0
    	119.95	4800	191.7	17.63	213.28	119.15	0	0	0	0.8
    	121.36	5840	191.7	18.04	254.92	120.46	3	0	0	0.8
    	122.65	6560	191.7	17.63	260.25	121.85	3	0	0	0.8
    	123.87	7080	191.7	15.99	268.08	123.05	2.3	0	0	0
    	125.24	5720	191.7	19.27	265.94	124.35	2.3	0	0	0
    	126.55	6120	191.7	18.04	256.64	125.64	0	2.3	0	3.8
    	127.85	6480	191.7	17.63	261.44	127.05	0	2.3	0	3.8
    	129.07	5040	1.5	0	0.22	128.25	0	0.8	0	3.8
    
    As can be seen here, the OEM manifold is consistently flowing more air then the 034 manifold, with similar timing pull.

    Discuss....
  36. RobbieRolex
    Offline

    RobbieRolex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    I'm totally dumbfounded, basically the highflow mani is/was a red herring. From the looks of the your OEM ported manifold is performing the same if not better, you mentioned the turbo can spool faster/lower down due to the smaller runners, this in itself is a great benefit and from the logs its not choking up top either!

    Is there anyone that can hook you up with an EGT gauge this would be the icing on the cake really.
  37. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    I have a non-contact IR thermograph I could use onto the manifold, but I have no reference data not having tried this on another. Wellys k04 does'nt have egt bung
  38. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    Sadly not mate, there isn't anywhere to put it.

    Can go on two things, firstly the glow of the manifold, and secondly the timing pull. Higher EGTs would normally come with more pull.

    There isn't any.
  39. RobbieRolex
    Offline

    RobbieRolex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    What color was the mani, this can be an indication of heat range.Still this is some result.Anyway when Welly gets his WMI, they should be in the 800's like mine are, with a bit of luck

    Anyone wanna buy a part used 034 manifold, LOL
  40. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 19, 2010]
    It will be interesting to see how Morgan gets on when he's complete on his TT with TSR manifold and same spec hybrid.
    I think I may be seeing a JBS k04 mani come by here at some point also for comparison also

Share This Page