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Another hybrid conversion thread....

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 10, 2010]
    Don't know yet dude, hopefully not.
  2. Dane
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    Dane Faster than a V12 Q7

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  3. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 10, 2010]
    Jeepers Welly, hopefully its not, what egt temps was it seeing? With Bit a bit of luck it just needs a tightening up or gasket replacement.


    Also did you change you engine mounts with your need power? My car feels like its hitting a brick wall when i come off high boost.
  4. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 10, 2010]
    I changed mine for THS ones... last I looked the discount code I used (thats in my build thread somewhere) still worked and knocked 70 odd quid off the set... tbh though if I had the money I would get Vibra-Technics ones...

    <tuffty/>
  5. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Nov 10, 2010]
    Dont they make for alot of in car vibration?
    I went out in a skoda octavia with a big turbo and vibra technics mounts and it felt realy harsh for road use.
  6. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 10, 2010]
    The road ones are ok....

    <tuffty/>
  7. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Cracked 034 Motorsport k04 manifold - 1000mile use only

    [​IMG]

    Crack visible on top of runner #4 (but not only one judging by the blowing sounds from #1 cyl area)

    Disaapointing to say the least.
  8. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Not good would they be under warranty...
  9. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    with less than 1000mile so you would hope so - but the act is its a shyte job to fit, which now has to be redone again...
    we will see what the vendor has to say about it
  10. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    All those who are unhappy, please raise your hands...

    **Welly raises his hand**

    I am thoroughly disappointed with this, after all the hard work to fit it. What an utter piece of festering dog ****.
  11. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    I meant will they come with the used out of spec route i.e modified turbo
  12. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    f&%ked to say the least, hope the exchange is a smooth procesd
  13. IbanezDan51
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    IbanezDan51 Member

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Damn Welly thats not good!

    For those who are wondering about the debate between THS and vibratechnics...I had THS before my head went and now have fast road vibra, the vibra ones are a little stiffer, I've not noticed it in the cabin although I do have no interior. PS I still have my old THS ones with less than 500 miles use ;)

    Where do us hybrid ko4 owners go from here then? Could a standard manifold cope with a lot of porting or is getting a custom stainless manifold made up worth it?
  14. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    how much was the 034 anyway?
  15. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    :ohmy:
    **** it anyway Welly, this is BS, 1000miles, i would be more put out by how much of a pain these are to fit.It will be interesting to see what 034 say, i know INA /034 are keeping very quite about promoting these manifolds for some reason.

    I would be prepared before you call them, they seem to talk the talk but not walk the walk, they'll probably take the line that they recommend the manifold be coated before fitment, but as i said, i recommend you give me all your money, so its only an option and can't be used as a warranty issue otherwise they would not let them out the door without being coated.

    On the flip side, i know this is a real bummer, but it would be intesesting to see what the stock manifold can do with the setup, i know my stock manifold was used and abused and is still rock solid.Maybe we would be better talking a BHP hit but having a solid manifold!?


    Bill/Welly was EGT's was this mani seeing routinely?
  16. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Hopefully not. Ultimately, the turbo has no relevance to the manifold as the gas passes through the manifold pre turbo. It wasn't running uber boost either, so they would be hard pushed to fob it off with that.

    That's not to say it won't be tried of course.

    The trouble is, I'm not sure I want an exchange unit, based on the experience I've had.

    The standard manifold is thin and *****. Maybe the collector could be ported to see better results, however I'm not sure how good they would be, or how long it would last.

    A custom stainless mani would literally cost the earth.

    I think they retail around the £300 plus shipping IIRC.

    I may take you up on that offer dude. I ran a stock mani originally, and the thing would glow yellow. Literally yellow. Not good.

    EGTs are unmeasurable on my car dude, as it is non wideband, meaning it doesn't have EGT either which is a shame.

    I am not planning to fit another 034 product. Ever. Even if they replace the manifold, I won't be fitting it.

    Exactly as you said, and I said to Bill last night, it's not the money really (although it's an arse). It's the fact that I will have to take the head off AGAIN to fit another manifold.

    That is what has truly pissed me off.

    My recommendation - avoid these manifold like the plague.
  17. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Adding to the above, I think the first crack (the one pictured) appeared a while ago. I say this because I have been smelling exhaust gas for the last few hundred miles occasionally....

    Meaning that it didn't even last 1000 miles.
  18. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Even worse, we all know manifolds crack eventually, some peeps are running manifolds now with small cracks and don't even know about it, the car runs fine, the fact is this is catastrophic failure is $hit.

    Well i know of 3 peeps having these Manifolds, me, Welly and paul-murphys over on SCN, so far one has failed, who's next? this has me nervous!!
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2010
  19. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    I totally agree. When have you ever seen a failure on an OEM manifold like that after 1K?
  20. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Not fit for purpose then.....ive heard on another forum that they were pressing the buyer to have it coated..."to be on the safe side" bullshit, it should have never been so close to tolerance without the coating.
  21. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Anyway, on the plus side, the fugly gasket has done a cracking job.... lol.

    Positive mental attitude and all that....
  22. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    OK, OK. So I'm going to call for people's opinions now....

    I have two options as I see it from here:
    1. Get an OEM manifold and port the collector to try and help it flow better.
    2. Fit the tubular XS Power Stainless Steel manifold that I have. This has had the work done on it now to make it fit, so should be OK....
    One part of me really wants to see what the XS Power mani is like. The other doesn't want to take the head off again should it not be so good....

    Thoughts?
  23. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    I would go OEM again, get 034 to replace the manifold or refund, use the mani/funds to by WMI and refit the stock mani to keep EGT's down and add timing to the top end.As bill said before the 034 mani didn't really add much apart from running cooler.

    The XS mani will probably fail at some stage.

    Thats just my 2 cents worth.
  24. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
  25. mk1chopper
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    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    If you've got the mani there to use then fit it, whats the point in having it if your not going to use it.
  26. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Jeeze, that sux mate. My log style cheapy manifold is still working 12k on, so glad i didn't spend the extra buying an original one.

    Stick the tubular one on, i expect the OEM one will make the egts go through the roof and lower power at the top end
  27. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Well, the issue is how much of an arsehole these are to take on and off. It's not a quick or easy job, and it's £80 in parts every time to do it...

    What I am trying to avoid is being in this situation again any time soon.
  28. mk1chopper
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    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Well as you've pointed out someones been running one without any problems, how much would coating the manifold cost?
  29. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Yeah get the tubular on.... you are the official tester......lol
  30. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Hmmm i would agree in theory but the OEM one is tried and tested, i've done a 122 Dyno runs on mine with very aggressive maps before it was changed, it does seem to take a beating much better.Wild Willy over on SCN got 308bhp/292lb/ft on a similar setup(BAM 225) to Welly but he still has the stock mani.No doubt other aftermarket mani flow better but sometimes we might just have to sacrifice power over reliablity

    Mine used to see this sort of heat on a regular basis and it was solid when it came off.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  31. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    ^^ Good photos there dude.....

    I'm really torn here :(.

    I'll have to give it some serious thought.

    It bugs me how the OEM item can take such a beating, but the 034 one appears to have pussied out at the first hurdle.

    I'm so mad about this.... :banghead:
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2010
  32. mk1chopper
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    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Would it be worth speaking to TSR and see how there prototype mani is coping with heat cycles?
  33. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    The problem being that, regardless of how good it is, I haven't got £600 plus VAT to spend on a manifold...
  34. mk1chopper
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    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Im not saying buy the TSR mani but they might be able to tell you if they've had any issues with their manifold.
  35. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Fair point.... :thumbsup:

    Although, the TSR mani looks substantially better made than the XS Power/Relentless one... I would imagine it actually fits when you take it out the box and everything.... :)
  36. mk1chopper
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    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Yeah I had A TSR 4-2-1 manifold on my mk1 golf gti, was a well made bit of kit apart from the fact they painted it with normal paint so for the first 10mins after starting I had a lot of smoke coming out of my engine bay.
  37. RobbieRolex
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    RobbieRolex Member

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Wow £600 smackers, they must use the same pricing structure as Forge :laugh:
  38. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    LOL, maybe.... I think that was what they said. £600 plus VAT & Delivery.

    Totalled, that will be around £720ish. OUCH!
  39. Morgan-VAGCHECK
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    Morgan-VAGCHECK Foot to the floor

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Hi Guys,

    Firstly Welly I am very sorry to hear of your 034 mani issue, sounds like your luck is very similar to mine !

    In regards the TSR manifold & costs, you would not believe how difficult & time consuming these are to make, & TSR understand there may not be a huge market for them given the costs.

    One thing you can be sure of is out of the overall costs it is not because they are looking for high profits, but it is due to the needed man hours to fabricate. They did look at having some tooling made up to help reduce build time, but costs were going to be astronomical.

    So far during testing we have not had any issues appear as yet & it has been enduring some pretty brutal dyno runs, & lots & lots of heat cycles but I guess only time will tell..

    The runners themselves are very heavy duty, & the quality of the welds & fabrication speaks for itself.

    If you need anymore info on these fire away (It is my TT that is the test victim)

    Regards
    Morgan
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2010
  40. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Nov 11, 2010]
    Thanks for that dude. I'm not saying for a second that the TSR kit won't be worth that money. It is sadly, however, outside of what I can justify spending.... :(

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