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Another day, another morning, another 2 hour diagnostic at Audi, another £200!

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by sarah1989, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. sarah1989
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    sarah1989 Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    My on going fault of heavy judder/vibration at around 1200rpm is actually sending me insane, car went to Audi this morning for diagnostics, after first hour they rung and said they need another hour so I said ok, after that they rung to say they need another hour, I asked will they diagnos it in that and they said maybe not so I said leave it.. Went collected it and paid the bill for Sweet FA!!!

    Last week an Audi parts guy advised me that he has a few calls with similar problems where people order new EGR Valve, Regulator and a MAF, I really am not mechanical at all, do they sound like they could sort the problem???

    Really so fed up!
    #1
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  3. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Welcome to the world of 'no DTC, no bloody idea' fault diagnosis by your friendly neighborhood Audi Master Tech.

    I'm in for the same treatment myself today (but for a different issue).

    It really is hard to diagnose on these cars without seeing them (Audi can't do it with all the expensive kit, so over web diagnosis really is going to be big guess work).

    Find a good VAG independent (usually half the price), and they tend to have far better fault diagnosis and identification tactics.

    Which part of the country are you in (North / South etc...) and maybe someone can recommend and put you on the journey to getting it sorted.
    #2
  4. evocos
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    evocos Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    This is what i hate,you take your car to audi and pay over the odd's for there knowledge and understanding that they are supposed to
    have,if the do not find the problem you should not pay,these are there cars.
    You should only pay for fitting and price of new parts.
    #3
  5. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Can't beat a good specialist IMO. The Audi tech's are just 'fitters' with limited knowledge and the majority very little interest, not how it should be but this has been my findings to date, If Noth based I'd recommend Statllers, midlands Ben at AVP.
    #4
  6. sarah1989
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    sarah1989 Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Specialists have not got any where :(
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  7. evocos
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    evocos Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    This must be so frustrating for you,i hope you get it sorted soon
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  8. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    you don't half feel exposed when you have a big lump of expensive metal sat on your drive that no-one seems to be able to fix.

    Best of luck, hope it gets sorted for you (eventually).
    #7
  9. sarah1989
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    sarah1989 Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    I'm tempted just to try the 3 things the parts guy said to me, even though he is a parts man he did sound very knowledgeable. Could any one else think it could be EGR, Regulator and MAF?
    #8
  10. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Yeap I'd agree with that, alot of audi technicians are just fitters, not mechanics IMHO, they have no real interest in cars as we may have I have found, if it isnt showing a fault diagnostically they are mostly often lost.

    Is the car idling ok & over 1200 the car runs fine?
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
    #9
  11. c_w
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    c_w Active Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    What would be ideal is if you had a very friendly member who has the same car to trial good known parts! Bit of an ask I know but could save a lot of money.
    #10
  12. sarah1989
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    sarah1989 Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Car idles fine between 800 and 850 rmp, the main vibration/judder is around 1200rpm in high gears at reasonably lower speeds, its almost as if it is changing gear up to quick and struggling x
    #11
  13. Brett Butler
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    Brett Butler Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    A little more info?

    I take it is a auto, what model? engine? age? miles done?

    vibration? Judder?, any chance you can elaborate?
    Does it do it all the time, or when you are turning, etc?
    Possible engine/gearbox mountings? CV/UV Joints, I tend to find in all walks of life people always want to blame the electronics as it is something they do not understand or can blame and not there problem, when it is often mechanical.
    #12
  14. c_w
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    c_w Active Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Yes as above. Also my first reaction is 1200rpm with any real load is too low for most gears bar perhaps 1/2/3rd. For some reason I assumed it was diesel but just noticed it hasn't been mentioned!
    #13
  15. ste
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    ste reverse gear

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    hi, audi had problems with the injector loom on the 2.0 diesels which run through the cylinder head. is it a diesel were talking about?
    #14
  16. thebott
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    thebott Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Nightmare situation. I hope you get it sorted soon..........
    Would drive me crazy ...........
    #15
  17. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    If Audi techs have been looking for a knackerd CV joint or engine mount with diagnostic equipment.....well there is just no hope for us.
    #16
  18. ste
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    ste reverse gear

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    lol, that sounds about right
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  19. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Was it dervs, I cant recall but this may explain an issue with a car I have atm, urmm need to hunt this down, any links would be handy thanks.
    #18
  20. ste
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    ste reverse gear

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    read about this problem in a magazine, not at home at the moment but will look for it next chance i get. it affected the 2.0 pd tdi fitted in the early a3s
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  21. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Yeah I remember an issue with the loom but cant recall which car/engine it was, I know its been discussed on here before a few times.
    #20
  22. ste
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    ste reverse gear

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    sure it was in the audi driver mag, a guy by the name of ben covers loads of technical issues
    #21
  23. wesley
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    wesley Giac Extreme+!! Lovin it

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    My sister had this fault last week on her 2002 golf tdi 150 PD, its a common fault on them, new injector wiring loom about £40 cured the problem instantly!!
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  24. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Wes what were her symptoms mate?
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  25. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Mar 30, 2010]
    As I posted above this is Ben of AVP performance based in the midlands, very, very knowledgable but more important very willing to help, give him a call, he has recently set up on his own but has all the Dealer diagnostics etc plus firm mechanical knowledge.

    01283 548 483
    #24
  26. sarah1989
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    sarah1989 Member

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    [Mar 30, 2010]

    It is a 2004 54 2.0TDi dsg s line, done 60k. It is a very bad vibration that goes through the car and it judders it back and forth, It does not do it cold it has to be warm, drove for a while then it comes on gradually, normally when your accelerating and it hits 1200rpm, what I find to get over it is to reduce a gear and it always seems to be in gear 4 when it first happens! When it hits that judder you really have to accelerate and put alot in to it then it shoots past it.

    Some times get it higher up when in 4th gear - around 1800rpm, 2000rpm some times more, and get it sometimes in gear 5 and 6, but mainly gear 4.
    And I have replacing the wiring harness from injector to the loom.

    Thanks x
    #25
  27. c_w
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    c_w Active Member

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    [Mar 30, 2010]
    I would still suggest 1200rpm is too low to lug in 4th although your juddering does sound extreme so sometjhing's not right if it's doing it at 1800/2000rpm.

    IMO, you can discount a mechanical fault like drivetrain, it sounds more like a fuelling/sensor issue. Engine temp sensor? MAF? etc
    #26
  28. sarah1989
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    sarah1989 Member

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    [Mar 30, 2010]
    Very tempted to try the MAF, I got advised to try the EGR Valve and Regulator too, I have posted about them ones but not had a answer really...
    #27
  29. phil76
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    phil76 Active Member

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    [Mar 30, 2010]
    If not there is a bloke on the VWAudi forum who's name is crasher,he is one of those that if he doesnt know it no one will kind of blokes who is always helpful
    #28
  30. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Mar 30, 2010]
    Your avatar always makes me smile :)
    #29
  31. phil76
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    phil76 Active Member

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    [Mar 30, 2010]
    It does me,i had hair back then
    #30
  32. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 30, 2010]
    Could be fuel pump under rear seat bench, fuel filter, injector, I dont think its the dsg, I think its fuel/air supply IMHO.
    #31
  33. phil76
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    phil76 Active Member

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    [Mar 30, 2010]
    Stupid question i know but here it goes have they taken this car on test drive? it sounds daft but i have known so called master-techs and alike say things like there is no problem with a car by plugging it in even though the car went in with slipping clutch type symptoms,what about writing to audi? it may seem daft but if your at a loose end with one of there cars and paying for basically nothing because there garages cant sort this kind of thing doesnt look that good on them,i know on other forums and maybe this where i have read where someone had the contact details of who to complain to in this kind of situation.I would also go with the common thoughts on maf,egr,but also maybe coolant temp sensor not fuelling correctly when warm,does it do the juddering when just reving the vehicle in the quoted range or just driving? is it smoking more when doing so ? i agree with the injector loom theory as golfs suffered the same symptoms as this but not just on a low certain rev range,

    or have you read : http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?85986-A3-2-0-TDI-54-plate-judder-misfire
    #32
  34. rickyquicky
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    rickyquicky Member

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    [Mar 30, 2010]
    Agree with you mate, i'd put my money on an engine sensor. If the sensors have an intermittent fault it wont always show up on diagnostic equipment, i've had faulty sensors before that diag machines didn't detect. If you can 'drive through it' and then its fine i'd not worry about fuelling.

    Try and explain it a bit better though. Is the juddering from the car itself or is it the engine that is struggling and juddering? And 1200 revs sounds well too low to me to be driving about. Unless you mean when you accelerate from a standstill?
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
    #33
  35. c_w
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    c_w Active Member

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    [Mar 31, 2010]
    Actually just been out in mine now, and I think 1200rpm isn't too much of a problem, especially since it's at 1200rpm in 4th at 30mph for example. I'm probably just too used to petrol engines!! hehe

    Could be a throttle position sensor of some kind?
    #34
  36. sarah1989
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    sarah1989 Member

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    [Apr 1, 2010]
    It does feel like the engine, and it feels quite violent lol
    #35
  37. Mr V
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    Mr V New Member

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    [Apr 1, 2010]
    I'm a bit shocked by the way some of you perceive the dealers. I work for an Audi dealer and if i had to work on a problem like this, customer satisfaction would be a high priority. Say, for example, i couldn't fault it on a road test, the next step would be to either overnight test the car or for the customer to demo the problem to our master tech. Then checks would be carried - by which time the fault would have been experianced by myself either on the overnight test or the master tech then demoing the fault to me. If the fault isn't obvious and i'm still scratching my head after i've exhausted the resources i have, which includes a large database with many common and also some very odd faults listed for your car, a report would sent to Audi Technical explaining the situation and giving as much information as i can. They'd reply within a few hours with the next test(s) to do. The thing is, i'm not the only tech where i work to do this - we're all as keen and eager to sort out a problem as each other.

    Sorry this doesn't help you Sarah, but i wanted to let you know that there are a lot of dedicated techs working for Audi.

    I don't want to guess at your problem but it's very unlikely to be an engine speed speed sensor fault because this would usually give you a cutting out/non start problem. Unlikely to be throttle pedal, there are 2 potentiometers in the pedal, as soon as the ECU picks up a discrepancy in one it'll raise the EML. Unlikely to be the air mass meter, this would have logged a fault with something else in the system. EGR cooler faults i've come across don't tend to have your symptoms usually leak coolant which gets burnt off internally which leads to a low coolant level. EGR valve faults tend to put on the EML by either the flap sticking blowing the fuse or leaking oil into the connector or the exhaust valve staying open causing rough idle and a lot smoke.

    Don't shoot......
    #36
  38. Mr V
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    Mr V New Member

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    [Apr 1, 2010]
    The 1st part of it i agree with and the 2nd part of it i don't.

    Why shouldn't you pay for diagnosis? Was it my fault your car developed a fault? Did i cause it to go wrong? So you want me to spend my time diagnosing a fault that i have no influence over, that wasn't caused by me, for free? I wish my electrician, plumber, doctor, dentist etc etc shared the same idea too.
    #37
  39. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 1, 2010]
    LMFAO, shocked, thats funny, you should read some stories we've had on here, I had one today & trust me I'm not shy of a tech job or 2, but today just showed me what some peoples work ethics really are like, I remove a trim for a diag test on a 09 central electrics board I diagnosed as faulty, it was in for mot aswell, I told foreman I'd removed & I know these guys very well, so they ring me & tell me its failed on the headlight switch not being in correct place, uh hold on I fecking told you I'd removed that trim so you could get to the board easier & quicker, trim was on passenger seat, why didnt you just fit it in 10 seconds flat & then pass it ffs, that to me is 100% pure breed ****, thats for someone who talks to them on 1st name basis so imagine others.

    Also if its a part supplied & fitted by audi under the 2yr warranty then feck yeah its upto you to deal with the time costs, considering audi pays you for warranty issues anyway, then whats your problem, independents also have to swallow this if they supply & fit the part, end of, been this way for years so dont know how long you've been at audi but sounds like a very short period to me.
    #38
  40. Mr V
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    Mr V New Member

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    [Apr 1, 2010]
    Keep your knickers on mate. If a part is fitted and fails under 2 years (even though warrenty periods vary for different parts), of course it should be replaced free of charge. But seeing as replacement parts are usually very good quality, i'd recheck what the cause for the failure is so it would inconvenience the customer.

    I never said all Audi techs are good, i simply stated the ones i work with are.
    #39
  41. phil76
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    phil76 Active Member

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    [Apr 2, 2010]
    As said i dont think the comment was made at all dealers techs & workers there are good and bad in all trades,there seems to be more of an issue now though of because most cars are loaded up to the back knackers of electrics simple diagnostics dont seem to come in as much neither do road tests,where as old cars if you had a fault then you would replace dizzy cap,rotor arm plugs,leads the car would normally always run like a good-en with those and a so called tune up and the heavier more in depth stuff would be left to a mechanic now it seems to be there is a fault on my car,well we have had it plugged in and there is no faults shown in a lot of cases some dealers are stumped or simply dont have the time to going into checking every parameter,this was evident with the coolant temp sensors,mafs,boost pressure regs etc on many cars but mk4 golfs spring straight to mind where until the faults got eventually diagnosed through time and process and become a common knowledge fault people were stumped, a mate of mine had an astra turbo who worked at the dealers his car would get warm and run **** ie as if the turbo was not kicking in, in the end through there diagnostics and advise he changed the turbo(i dont know why that really stumped me unless he wasnt liked),boost pressure sensors/regs,lamda's,maf etc costing him a fair bit when it was the cat getting warm expanding and braking down inside,but how would they have gone on if this was a paying customer?
    #40

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