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Another BMW Vs. Audi Thread i'm afraid...

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by PNH80, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Ok so this isn't A3/S3 related (but i do currently own one) and i would post this in a different, more appropriate forum but this is the busiest and not to mention i respect the opinion of you guys!

    Basically i'm currently on the search for my next car, as some of you are aware. On Saturday i went out in an A5 3.0TDI and an S3. Last night i went out for a test run in a BMW 330d M-Sport coupe.

    Due to the ever rising price of petrol (premium 97+ RON) i've been pretty much forced to rule out the S3. Wonderful car and serves every purpose i could require but my head and heart are saying different things i'm afraid.

    So now to my dilemma... The A5 Vs. the 330d coupe. I'll be honest... I need a far more extensive test drive of both to put clear daylight between them. The 3 series felt more nimble and more of a sports coupe whereas the A5 felt more of a cruiser/GT car. But thats just first impressions.
    Interior wise Audi wins hands down, a truly lovely cabin compared to the 330d.
    Exterior wise i don't really have a preference. Both have pro's and con's. The Audi has the more impressive front and rear in my opinion but the beamer has a much nicer side profile. I also prefer the double pipes on the A5 compared to the twin pipe pushed to one side arrangement on the 330d (the 335d has one pipe each side like the A5 but it's a touch out of my price range!!).

    Performance wise both cars are very very similar in both acceleration and economy, so again, not much daylight there either.

    I will be taking both cars back out again in the coming weeks but as we stand i can't make my mind up for sure. If i had to pick on gut instinct and which 'felt' the best i'd go with the A5.

    So what's the general opinion? A5 or 3 series coupe?

    I don't want this to turn into a BMW vs Audi rant but i would like some educated opinions on these 2 cars from you guys.
    Again, i apologise for it not being A3 related but any input would be most appreciated.

    Cheers.

    Paul.
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  3. benw123
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    benw123 Moderator

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    I've not driven either, but I would also be keener on the A5 if only for exclusivity and thus decent, if not better, residuals. No question, the BMW is a fine car with a mighty engine but there are just too many of them around.
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  4. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    I would like to ask, whats the mpg for both of these cars as they arent exactly a 2.0TDI are they, just wondering if they are significantly more than the S3 & diesel prices are way over petrol now arent they?
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  5. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Well both on paper are supposed to return around 40-45mpg combined. My 2.0TSFI is pretty much dog poo in the economy department around town so i can't see the S3 being any better.
    I always take economy figures with a fistful of salt but i'd imagine as long as you're easy on the gas, both the A5 and 330d will give a better return.....Unless anyone knows different?
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  6. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Ive not driven either so i can't comment on them , but what i will comment on is i would never buy a car that wasn't the car i wanted just to save a few quid a week on fuel......lifes too short for that.

    p
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  7. daviscup
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    daviscup Member

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Also consider the S3 will be a lot cheaper to buy than the other 2, and diesel is more expensive to buy than petrol, so unless your doing mega miles every year the S3 could actually be the cheaper car to own.
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  8. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Don't get me wrong, the A5 doesn't match the S3 for smiles per mile but it's a terrific car non the less. More room, slightly better equipped, full time 4WD, 0-60 in 5.9 seconds and the styling is beautiful.
    It's just not a 'performance' car is it. My only concern is getting a bit bored after a while with cruising!
    Unfortunately i (as many of you probably do) have to strike a balance between enjoyment and economy. My choice of car means i have to be relatively careful with the fuel.
    So it's got to the point where i'd rather have a really 'nice' car which doesn't cost me quite so much in fuel bills. Makes it easier to sleep at night!

    By the way....It doesn't matter if any of you have actually driven the cars or not, i'm just interested which you'd rather own and why really.
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  9. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Isnt it funny, audi's figures never actually match up to what you truly get, lol, you'd have to drive like a completely learner to get that kinda economy with those cars, I mean they arent exactly slow are they, lol, more like 30-35 I would say as those derv cars arent exactly for deliveries, but it would be better than the S3, but as derv is so expensive now over petrol anyway you have to do the maths, but we are talking an A5 & a 330d, those cars arent driven by old grannies.

    Well said, you only live once, I'm bloody anal about my cars, have to be just right & love technology, I'd rather pay a little extra to not be questioning my purchase everyday, regret is a horrible itching thing, bit like the angel on one shoulder & the devil on there other, lol, always remind yourself you should have got the car you really wanted, which thankfully I always have.

    Thats exactly my point, S3 is cheaper & petrol is cheaper, so overall it might be less over the lifetime you have the car, also its an awesome looking interior & exterior, just pisses on most cars these days, its just laid out much better than any cars I've seen.
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  10. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    It all depends on your weekly fuel saving , are we talking £20 saving or more like £150?

    I'd much rather have the car i want , thats a joy to drive , gives me smiles and thrills and spend the exta £20 on fuel per week.

    If were talking mega miles and a rough saving of £150 per week , then it's a no brainer.

    Or buy a work house like me , cheep tax , insurance , loads of miles per buck , park it anywhere and not give a **** , and it keeps the miles off the S3 , so when i do drive the S3 it's just fun fun fun giving it a hard time and getting silly miles per gallon :)

    p
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  11. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    What sort of miles are you doing? Personally I would go for a 335i coupe and sod the economy :) although I keep seeing a black S5 which is gorgeous and sounds even better...

    Out of the 3 you've just mentioned I like em both. I like the fact the A5 is rarer but I like the fact the BM is soo nice to drive. In my experience the BM dealers are better but I know poeple on here have had the exact opposite experience.

    I'm not helping much am I...

    J.
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  12. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Well thats true, but depends whose footing the fuel bill huh, company then hey buy the car you really want, lol, I did, I bought an S4 Avant B6 for a contract I was doing, few years ago, then sold it when I finished.

    If own pocket & your saving even £50 a week then serious consideration to the other 2, infact I wouldnt even look at the 330d, better of buying any audi quattro TDI TBH, only IMHO of course.

    But I always go with what I really want as no matter what you get you get screwed by car costs overall.
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  13. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [Jun 17, 2008]
    I'd take the A5. Purely on looks but also interior feel.

    The A5 looks like a step into future design wheras the 3 series is starting to look a little dated now with only minor changes happening over the last 6 or more years. IMO of course :)
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  14. rodenal
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    rodenal Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    No idea about the 3 series but in the earlier revision of it's engine (in the best handling 5 series, the slightly older one 98-04 or somethin) the 3 litre diesel will return a real world 40-42 average over say 75% motorway 25% urban in auto, and a manual will see you 45-48.

    I can only imagine the 3 series coupe is a little better than that.
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  15. rodenal
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    rodenal Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2008]

    lol have you totally missed the new 3 series coupe or somethin? that's been out for about 2 years

    Thinking about it it also looks very similar in shape to the A5 - i.e fat, bloated and ugly, but thats just my opinion!
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  16. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Oh yeah, I have... It must be THAT forgettable. I rest my case :)

    Actually, I do really like the look of the new coupe!!! (reminder to self to check in for brain scan)

    But again, I think the A5 is leaps ahead in terms of design.
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  17. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Neither car is 'pretty' at all which is what i like about them! Both have a no nonsense look about them.
    I have to say though, i keep seeing a Misano Red and an Ibis white A5 and a black S5. All of them seem to have way more road presence than the BMW. An S5 in the rear view mirror is quite a sight.

    On the economy subject it seems quite open ended. I think the 3.0TDI is a superb engine though apparently achieving 60 in sub 6 seconds....then there's a remap option if economy becomes less of a concern.

    Don't forget insurance though. Quotes i've had on an S3 are a fair chuck more than on the A5.
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  18. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Remapping a diesel doesnt eat into your MPG Dave. On the contrary, many claim an increase in MPG, I know my diesel gained around 5 MPG after chipping, fact.
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  19. rodenal
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    rodenal Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Yeah it should help if anything

    at the end of the day if you're lucky enough to be in the position to consider either a few mpg difference between them shouldnt matter. Just get a long drive in both and pick the one you feel most comfortable with
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  20. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Hmmm maybe Leon, but I certainly didn't gain when I had my a3 revo'd... although others seem to have seen an increase, perhaps I just used the added performance more than most :)

    J.
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  21. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Well if an A5 3.0TDI is already sub 6 seconds 0-60 it should knock your head through the back of the seat after a remap. It already has more torque than the S5 anyway. I think the economy figures for the S5 are around 19mpg urban....And that's Audi's estimation!!
    All in all, it'd be one hell of a car when mapped. Only problem is that exhaust note...

    If i was going ahead and picking what felt right, it's going to be the Audi. I just like Audi's, what can i say. BMW diesels are annoyingly good though.

    I can assure you of one thing though mate, the only reason i'm picking between these 2 cars is down to maybe slightly mis-placed priorities, not a bank account bursting at the seams!! lol. Having a nice car is as important to me as anything else in life. Just don't want to piss money away unnecesarily on fuel thats all....


    Thanks for the good advice and opinions so far chaps. See, it is possible to have a calm debate about Audi vs. BMW lol.
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  22. bacardi
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    bacardi Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Yup, I think the same ,they do look quite similar in my eyes too

    Out of the two, I'd take the A5, there are shed loads of 3 series coupe's knocking about lately
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  23. golf
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    golf ***** rent boy VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    The A5 3.0 TDI is a very, very nice motor. When I drive mine (it's not mine really) it seems to get a lot of attention, and I have the silly LED's turned off. It's capable, quick and refined, and on a recent trip from Hyde Park to Gatwick I got an average of 40 mpg wit fairly laid back driving, in town it's around 30-35 mpp depending on how it's driven. I haven't really pushed it to its limits yet, as the engine hasn't been run in yet, but it's quicker than my R32 according to the figures, and it does feel a lot more planted. Ours has the Bang & Olufsen sound system which is amazing.

    You're right when you say that it feels like a GT car, because that's what it is in essence, it's not a nimble car by any means and prefers to eat up the miles effortlessly.

    I've not driven the 330d, but I would say that for the brief amount of time I was in one, it felt a lot sharper, and the ride was a little better. Also the xenons on the BMW are far better than Audi's for some reason.

    I see at least half a dozen 3 series coupes here daily, and maybe one or two A5's so the A5 is more exclusive, and in my opinion looks nicer. The BMW will be far more involving to drive (BMW's always are) but as an all rounder the A5 is - for me anyway - the winner here.
    #22
  24. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [Jun 17, 2008]
    I didnt get my car mapped at a tuners, I just opted for one of those Dragon tuning chip Boxes. It had 7 settings of power on the Box, and i had 2 maps (like a plug in USB thing which went inside the box)

    It only cost £130 and was specific to the 2.2 TDCi engine)

    Great gains in torque, instead of tailing off around 3500rpm, It had the power right round to 4500RPM :scared2: I swear It was ridiculous!!

    I had the box set mid way on the power setting, any more and like you, im sure the MPG would have suffered.

    When i sold teh car i put the box back on ebay and got my full outlay back :) I highly recommend them.
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  25. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Cheers for that mate, a very useful opinion. Can i ask what colour the A5 is which you get to drive? And is it manual or auto? ALSO... is it the quattro sport? S-Line pack? Sorry for all the questions!

    I recon i'll be going for Ibis white if it's the A5 and Alpine white if it's the BMW.....Bit too flash with fairy lights?!
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  26. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [Jun 17, 2008]
    I think darker colours suit some bigger cars. An Ibis white A5 is a right eyefull :)
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  27. rodenal
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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    I agree, The A5 looks best in black imo

    but turn off the fairy lights lol
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  28. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Isn't the only reason you would ever buy a diesel to save money ? I'm not knocking you for that (or coming out with the whole "no pockets in shrouds" speech) but if you want/need to save money then buying a brand new 3.0l German diesel saloon with diesel currently selling at £1.27 a litre doesn't seem like the best way to do it.

    I get an avg of 23 mpg out of my S3 on a normal 9 mile rush hour commute into Manchester city centre. Let's say you could get 40mpg out of your diesel alternative (I reckon it would be more like 35mpg but let's go with a best case scenario for the diesel argument).

    That means you'd get 3.74 more miles out of each litre than me - and with VPower and Diesel roughly equivalent prices that would translate to an 11p saving over each mile. If we both travel (say) 250 miles per week you're saving £27 per week over my fuel costs.

    Now is an S3 not worth an extra £27 per week more than a clunky old smelly diesel ? I've just paid £2.30 for a cheese butty in Marks & Sparks. My S3 is worth a lot more than 11 cheese butties.

    Get a diesel when you get old.
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  29. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    To a point you're right although the clunky diesel argument doesn't really wash anymore.
    You compare the performance figures combined with economy for the 3.0TDI vs. the S5 and it makes very interesting reading. Performance wise, the 3.0TDI isn't 'too' far behind and with a remap probably about the same yet the car is a lot cheaper, looks the same and is a LOT cheaper to run and much stronger residual value. So the only down side is the exhaust note, thats it.
    Same applies to the 3 series. Look at the performance figures between the 330i and the 330d. Hardly anything in it but the diesel is so much cheaper to run.

    However, what you're saying about comparing the A5 to a cheaper, faster petrol car is right. There's probably not much in the running costs. Having just come off a driving ban last year though.... Insurance companies don't look too kindly on S3's in comparison to 'clunky smelly diesels'.

    I admit there are a lot of sums to do before reaching a conclusion on this one...
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  30. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    What's the difference between your 2.0T A3 and an S3 in insurance costs ? Can't be THAT much is it ?
    #29
  31. consilio
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    consilio Up the owls!

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    S5, absolutely jaw dropping car to look at, and looks great inside too. Think it will be on my next car list for sure. Imagine an RS5!!!

    Not driven either and dont really have an opinion of the BMW, this is just my 2 pence worth
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  32. golf
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    golf ***** rent boy VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Leon, it's the 3.0 TDI quattro sport. We got it in black, as the white didn't quite look right on it, even with the 19" RS4 anthracite rims. Colour is a matter of opinion of course, but I'm not keen on any kind of white shade unless it's on a 911 or an M3. I just thought the A5 suited a darker colour a lot better. It also disguises the size of the massive wing mirrors (thanks very much EU legislation...).

    It's manual, never been a fan of the multitronic/tiptronic auto box on Audi's. We were looking for an S5 but I couldn't get insured on it (I'm 21) and we've already got several other petrol motors, and thought a diesel would be a nice addition.

    Seeing as though I'm the only car enthusiast in the family, and a real Audi fan it was my job to spec it which was nice! It's easy to tick everything, but in the end I went for:

    * Sat Nav (essential)
    * Folding mirrors (good to have when in London)
    * Tyre pressure monitor
    * Auto dimming rear view mirror/auto lights etc (cheapskates Audi)
    * Heated front seats
    * Audi hill hold assist (a load of *****, waste of £45)
    * Cruise control
    * B&O sound system (awesome sound - not bad for £530 odd)

    I'll run you through the bad points briefly, just so you're aware of the downsides:

    * Huge wing mirrors look terrible in my opinion.
    * Rear space is very, very limited.
    * The MMI is a bit difficult to get used to, to make a simple change you go through a lot of menu's.
    * The black paint is a nightmare to keep clean, as are the standard 18" alloys with the prongs and whatnot.
    * The ride is not great, especially compared to the 330's.
    * The engine (in my view any way) is quite unrefined, although it's a V6 you will be able to tell instantly that it's a derv drinker.
    * All the attention gets tiresome after a while, how am I meant to pick my nose discretely at a set of traffic lights?
    * Auto lights/wipers have a mind of their own.

    Bloody hell, I've rambled on, any way hope that helps mate. :readit:
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  33. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    That is a very very tricky question... A 3 series Coupe or the A5

    Got that indecision myself... ahahah

    Going to work I always drive past a a few A5s and they just look great! IMHO...

    I also like the 3 series coupe and in the M form is looks the dogs!!! But somehow...(forgetting the M3) when I look to the rear of the 3 series Coupe I can't stop thinking of Japanese inspiration....

    Both of them really nice... I would probably go for the A5 I like the shape more... driving the 3 series should be better... but we are not reacing every single mile so really it does not make a different in everuday use I think...

    Pedro
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  34. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    I bet the BM is more to service as well...
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  35. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    My S-Line is group 15, the S3 is group 18. Quotes i've had so far even from the same insurers are coming out anything up to literally TWICE as much. Why they see the S3 is twice the risk....I'll let you decide!
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  36. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Agree you cant ignore diesel headline figures these days, but I find the `experience` isnt there with a diesel engine as a purely performance orientated engine.
    I supose this is why most of the car makers dont (yet anyway) offer their respective performance flagship model in diesel, ie M cars, S, RS, (Ford RS), Type r...etc

    Its interesting you have a petrol hatchback and a large diesel on your list of possibilties, although nice motors, there are very very different cars.

    My choice would be the S3, not that Im biased or anything:laugh:

    Good luck.

    Paul
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  37. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Through Adrian Flux my premium went from £450 (MK5 Golf Gti-Group 15) to £950 (S3-Group 18).

    5 mins on Confused.com and was down to £400 !!, £50 cheaper than the Golf.

    Worth a try if insurance is a significant factor in your next car purchase.

    Cheers
    Paul
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  38. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    I'm not too well up on my BIG Audi's....

    Anyway i was at the Bentley factory in Crewe a couple of weeks a ago dong a spot of work , and a black , blacked out , and de-badged Audi came in , i don't know whether it was a A5, A6 or A8 , but from behind it had 4 exhaust's and VERY wide wheel arch's , and sounded heavy , it was deffo some RS mule.

    p
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  39. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    Crikey i was swaying towards the A5 but now i'm not so sure. It's just hard to get away from the fact that the beamer is probably the better drivers car.
    If wing mirror size is EU legislation how come the A5's are huge and the 330's are a nice aerodynamic design??

    Obviously i'm going to have to drive them both again aren't i but it's all going to come down to whether i want driving pleasure or a 'nicer' car to sit in.
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  40. phantom
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  41. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Jun 17, 2008]
    It all makes sense in my head. It's weighing up performance figures against economy against the price of the car against insurance. To get anywhere near hot hatch pace you've got to go for a bigger diesel. I'd be bored stiff with a 2.0TDI.
    I loved the test drive in the S3, it felt like a genuine step up from the S-Line, driving experience wise. It's the running costs and insurance figures which are pushing me diesel-wards.

    However, it seems pretty obvious that i'd get a much much better deal on an S3. I have to admit i did like the feeling of a bit more space in the 3 series and A5 though.
    #40

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