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Another 8L Track Car - Lets get ready to 'Ruuuuuuuumble'!

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Welly, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Oct 22, 2012]
    Fair play. He is doing it on a budget though :) A set of brembos or R32 brakes (which you hate I know) would blow that out a fair bit. Unless he gets a bargain?

    How long did he last on 312s with 450bhp? :)
    #41
  2. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Oct 22, 2012]
    Too long to legally still be alive, and I went past him easily at Combe with just 200bhp, so it's clearly all down to the brakes :laugh:

    Look forward to seeing Wellyboots in a well prepared FWD A3 though, should be good fun at ADI next year!
    #42
  3. turnstyle
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    turnstyle Member

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    [Oct 22, 2012]

    I've always looked at cheap turbos and used the saying: "buy cheap, buy twice"
    But to be honest never thought of looking up project builds.

    I honestly didnt think they would hold up to much abuse. Although, for my money, id probably still stick with the bigger names in the business as my car is a daily grind.

    Look forward to seeing the results anyway.
    #43
  4. Reesy
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    Reesy Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 22, 2012]
    R32 Brakes are not a good idea. £150 a disc iirc, not ideal for a track car!
    #44
  5. Reesy
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    Reesy Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 22, 2012]
    Still not quite sure on the cheap turbo set up, all very well having a drag car/ road car with one, but as Prawn found out when using the basic silicone, track puts a lot more strain on bits.

    Worth a look to be honest and for the price if it blows up as long as it doesn't do any damage, a blown turbo is good fun.
    #45
  6. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    For OEM yeah (as they are kinda floating/2 piece like some of the bigger Audis) but EBC and a few others do cheaper solid alternatives. Might be a bit heavy but as a budget upgrade, probably cheaper than Porsche/Brembo/LCR setups...
    #46
  7. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    here's an awesome thought for inspiration.....

    To match Bumbles power:weight ratio in full road going form, assuming 445bhp and 1450kg, a stripped out FWD A3 would only need 337bhp. Well within reach of a gt28.... :)

    Going to absolutely fly when it's done I'm sure!
    #47
  8. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Wow, came back to find a barrage of posts I had missed!!

    I'd like to point out that I'm going to 'start' with 312s and see how it goes - not going to be a perma solution but will be good for a start!

    Tyres are the other choice matter. At Combe that year Prawny I was using those Sunnys (never again) and to be fair that had an impact on cornering as well as braking. They were not good tyres for the day. It was a point and boot scenario...
    #48
  9. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    So I bought the car...

    VGC inside and out to be fair. Full service, and has has a new engine in it's life too. Actual engine in the car is a genuine sub 100K lump - however it does have an APU code... meaning the head at least is from a Passat. Weird. Cant's be a whole APU lump as the APU has an external water pump I believe.

    Anywhoo, who cares.

    Went to see it at half 8 last night, 15 miles from home around twisty country lanes. Towed the A3 home (due to oil pressure issues - does start and drive) using the 1.9 Diesel 206 which struggled to say the very least (it's hilly round these parts).

    The other thing that really didn't help was the fact I let my lunatic brother drive the tow car. This is the man who regularly drives home with his trailer on, doing 90 and upwards... An interesting drive home. If scary.

    So... the car is home. Well sat on my mate's drive at the moment at least.

    I'll get some photos of the beast up shortly. Oh, and it's black Prawn, not Minge Blue.
    #49
  10. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    I'll be going with 312's on my budget track car too :p

    Get some proper race pads in there and good fluid and personally i dont think you'll be that far off.

    Given prawn runs 323's which are only marginally larger, i think the 312's can be made to work just fine.

    It would be a different story if Prawn regularly cooked the 323's and had to fit 350's to keep the temps under control, but thats not the case is it?
    #50
  11. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    I had serious problems with the 312s on Bumble, but that was actually to do with one of the calipers being dodgy as it turns out...

    It's a suck it and see scenario with the 312s, if they don't work out - they don't work out.
    #51
  12. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    You got carriers mate or do you want me to send these ones?
    #52
  13. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Ummm, well if you wouldn't mind, that would be awesome. :).

    PM me and we can sort out logistics!
    #53
  14. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    It's simply got to be done hasn't it! It would be blasphemy otherwise... :thumbsup:
    #54
  15. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Welly, have you considered the SEAT Ibiza Cupra , much better chassis compared to the 8L
    #55
  16. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    in std form it isn't and takes a lot more work to get them handling right... Bill's Ibiza is wide tracked with adjustable caster/camber top mounts etc... these can be had cheaply but not as cheap as the A3 and Welly is on a budget... can get the Mk4 platform to handle better for much less than a Mk3 Ibiza...

    <tuffty/>
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
    #56
  17. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    I boiled 312's into oblivion when going round combe... in my mk4..
    maybe I drive harder ;)
    #57
  18. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Seriously?
    #58
  19. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Welly has gotten used to not having brakes before the Brembos on Bumble ;P

    <tuffty/>
    #59
  20. Reesy
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    Reesy Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Tuffty, he said Ibiza not Leon :whistle2:

    I think that 312's are a good starting point. If you can get as much weight out the car as possible, they are worth a shot. It depends whether you want to try and have the fastest track car going or whether you set yourself some sort of limit and stick to it..

    (Look out for a post next year where both me and Welly say that we have cooked the 312's again and they are sh!t)
    #60
  21. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    312 discs with my Boxster callipers work well on mine for the road and an occasional track outing. I've never warped a disc with them and only noticed them very slightly fading away after a full days tracking last year at Bedford Autodrome. I believe that on a much lighter car like a stripped A3 you'll be fine.
    #61
  22. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    LOL... good spot... damn my skim reading... will edit with more appropriate response...

    What Bill said still stands lol...

    <tuffty/>
    #62
  23. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    and the end of the day its a budget track car.
    who gives a **** wether he has 6 pots or single pot sliders, he hasnt said hes making the absolute ideal track car
    he wants it to stop, sort of, if it doesnt, he'l just go round corners faster. WIN :racer:

    destroying things is more fun anyway
    #63
  24. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    #64
    StaceyS3 likes this.
  25. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    What was the spec of your Mk4 bill, compared with whats proposed here?
    #65
  26. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    #66
  27. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Karlos, you know me MUCH better than I thought....
    #67
  28. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Finally! You've bought a car that isn't bright yellow ;)
    #68
  29. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    I am considering painting the bonnet and roof and rear spoiler Imola yellow to have Bumble in reverse...
    #69
  30. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    #70
  31. Paradox1
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    Paradox1 Active Member

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Reversed bumble lol
    #71
  32. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    I think it's like a bee that's flown into your windscreen as you've been hooning it down the motorway.
    #72
  33. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Actually, my 323's are right on the limit of what they can take heat wise. I'm having to add cooling to them to keep them at their best.
    They're sh*t!

    R-kelly believed he could fly, but like you, he was wrong :laugh:

    the reason your 312's work better is because the porsche calipers can deal with the heat far better

    At the end of the day guys, what Bill and I say is right, speaking from experience, 312's are NOT up to track work.

    It's not the mechanical stopping power that's the issue, as kev says the percentage difference isn't massive between 312's and 323's, and the hydraulic power isn't that different either, but the thin 25mm discs, and nasty iron single pot calipers just cannot cope with the heat build up at all, and they fade and fail within a few laps.

    My 323's don't fade power wise, but they run ULTRA hot as can be seen from the colour of the discs, and pedal feel deteriorates towards the end of a 15 minute session. I'm mid way through adding brake cooling ducts to try and solve this without the expense of 2 piece 330mm discs.

    To put it another way, if you're finding 312's with single pot calipers are OK for track use, then you're probably pretty damn slow.

    Welly is a keen driver as we all know, 312's woudln't last 2 laps of Combe with him driving regardless of pad choice.
    #73
  34. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Hybrid IHI, ~350-390bhp
    some pix of it from its magazine shootout back in 2005
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #74
  35. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Oh, and it's great to see you back in a Proper car Wellyboots. Most impressed :)
    #75
  36. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    lmao - that should upset the armchair internet experts reading this...
    100% with ya prawny
    #76
  37. coatesy
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    coatesy poking badgers with spoons

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Iv never been on a race track before but I wouldn't use 312 brakes on the track, they get scary at times when playing rally drivers on empty roads
    #77
  38. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Suck it and see? After all, it's meant to be a budget track car isn't it? Might not be ideal for the track experts out there but I don't think, from what I can gather, that's what it's all about. Think of it as a MVP :)
    #78
  39. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    Budget required 312mms as a starting point. Are they the best? No. But for now they will bloody well have to do! lol.

    Brembos are the future plan, a very good upgrade on Bumble and more than worth it. Sadly, that's 500 I don't have at the moment. And I also have an engine to build.

    First we make go fast. Then we worry about stopping and cornering :thumbsup:
    #79
  40. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Oct 23, 2012]
    I don't have to listen to these wild allegations!!
    #80

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