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Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by wilcog33, Mar 3, 2010.
im looking at a facelift S3 amk but have heard the BAM engine is better, is there any truth in this?
BAM has 15hp more out of the box.
However with a remap you wont tell the difference.
I have heard AMK's are stronger, but dont quote me on that.
Agreed, My AMK doesnt have a SAI.... ive also heard there more sought after.
AMK is lower tax and insurance I believe.
Both remap the same.
Sorry, what is an "SAI"?
I think it stands for Secondary Air Injection. When air is injected into the exhaust for emissions purposes. Maybe wrong, someone on here will know.
Thats right, A common mod for ppl to remove them.
the AMK isnt cheaper for TAX yet.... but no difference after MAP
I was going to go for the 225 BAM over the 210 AMK purely because of the power difference but the insurance premium is a good few hundred difference, so i guess i would be better going for a 210 AMK if they both have the same final figure after a map?
i think there is some internal difference ontop of the power figure aswell.
Someone much wiser will post soon........
Waits with baited breath !
Think the difference would only be tax I dont think the insurance would be affected to much its whos driving it at the end of the day!!!
Well a quote for a 210 is £850 FC for me and the 225 is £1,200 FC :/
are there any difference in the internals between the two models?
Can anyone confirm the AMK has no Secondary Air System, I never knew that? Does it restrict power having one? I have a AMK so am chuffed lol!
AMK definitely has no SAI.
There is a power difference between the AMK and the BAM out of the factory - AMK is 210 and BAM is 225.
However there is next to no differences in internals at all, and both engines WILL have the same power output after a stage 1 map.
See here - most useful. http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?74563-1-8T-Info-Sheet
IMO, the AMK is a better choice as you get more bang for your buck from a remap.... lol.
SAI is a bag of balls - I've taken mine off. It' a bloody great big air pump secured to the block, with a bit which pumps warm air into the head on cold start to help the cats warm up faster.
Wowzers, I just made a mess in my trousers.
To my knowledge, the APY engine was the only one to feature this festering turd of a design, the AMK and BAM don't have it - which to my mind suggests how useless it is!
EDIT: The SAI comes on a few others too actually, oh joy of joys.
And they wonder why you keep dressing like Elvis.
AMK group 17
BAM group 18
As said above, more bang for your buck with an AMK.
Remaps the same
Just don't step on my yellow suede interior, uuuuuuuhhhuhhhh.
(as being dragged away into a wood panelled station wagon....)
How do I know if my engine is AMK or BAM?
X reg year 2000
210 engine but facelift body...
Been custom code stage 1 remapped by previous owner (no dunk test..)
What power should it be kicking out? (no other mods. Yet...)
facelift x reg will more than likely be an AMK, healthy remap figures should be around 250 BHP and FTLBs
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Cheers Dane, yeah checked the logbook it's November 2000 AMK
How did u find the B5 TIP on your S3? I've asked Bill to sort me one out plus the jetex cone filter...
I was the test mule for the v1 tip and the difference is Suuuuuwweeeeet you wont regret it
Early AMK's are where it is lower tax and facelift.
Are AMK's norrowband or wideband?
Wideband... same as BAM's...
APY is narrow band
Amk suffer from cracked cylinder heads's I know people will say no they don't but I've just seen my 3rd one this year! Oddly enough the sai is on most of the later model a4's , it's ****..remove it.
Taken from a SEAT forum where they were comparing the variant s of LCR, but assume its the same deal?
210 is an AMK Engine code, 225 is BAM.
210bhp/199lbft vs 225ps/208lbft. Both cars remap to practically the same. The 210 is actually 212ps, and the 225(ps) is actually 222bhp.
ECU Code for the 225 has an âAâ on the end.
There were always rumours that the 210 had stronger internals (20mm wrist pins and different rods), but it seems that this rumour stemmed from the early Audi S3 APY engine (also 210bhp) having stronger rods. However, in an AMK build thread someone measured the gudgeon pins for us, and they are 20mm. The later BAM engine are supposed to have 19mm wrist pins.
From ETOS and ETKA the block and piston set for AMK :06A 103 101 J and for the BAM : 06A 103 101 J, conrod for AMK : 027 198 401 B, conrod for BAM : 027 198 401 B.
Both engines have VVT, but this is apparently for emissions rather than a VTEC style torque/power shift. Originally we thought the VVT actuation was different (one mechanical the other hydraulic) but we now understand them to be the same. Again, it is the APY (early 210 S3 engine, never fitted to the LCR) that has mechanical VVT actuation and possibly where the rumour started. Both AMK and BAM have Electro-hydraulic VVT actuation.
Been searching, thanks to our friends in the TT and Audi world, it seems that it's the early S3 210 engine, coded APY had the mechanical VVT and 20mm gudgeon pins.
Also, it seems the AMK and BAM have a valve that "electrically allows oil pressure from the oil pump to adjust the cam timing on the inlet camshaft". Sounds Hydraulic to me, but some people refer to it as electrical.
APY was the early S3 engine (210), followed by the "Facelift" engine (there was a facelifted S3) which was the AMK, later a further engine, the BAM was introduced. There seems to be a few other differences between the APY and the later engines - it seems mostly emissions stuff, extra lambda sensors, a change from the K04-20 to the K04-23 (which is essentially the same, but has an extra sensor) and the switch from Mechanical to Hydraulic/electrical VVT actuation all related to control, and perhaps larger injectors on the AMK/BAM. It seems the ECU changed to the me7.5 on the AMK/BAM
So, it seems there's no fundamental difference between the AMK and BAM engines
The turbo (K04-23 from Borg-Warner), manifold & exhaust are all the same.
I do know that the injectors on the APY are different to the AMK. Not sure if they're larger though..
Same cc's but have a 'nose'... (EV12), AMK/BAm are EV6
APY/AMK/BAM all have 20mm pins...
APY didn't have VVT in any form... uses the same chain tensioner as the rest of the non VVT based engines... SAI was used in place of... although some modern variants run both SAI and VVT...
210/225 blocks are supposed to have stronger/thicker webbing but not looked close enough to confirm/deny
So they can be used in the US OF SMOG FREE A. Well california to be fair.
How much power/torque/boost stock BAM engine can stand?
Bought S3 with 360hp / 420Nm paper, but I doubt that..
Today mounted boost gauge and it shows just 1bar so I dont think that it would produce that much power with GT2871R, 3", front mount IC etc.
I guess that last owner dynoed some nice paper and after that reduced the boost.
Also wondered some strange ~8mm output on intake pipe between maf and turbo, next to by-pass. Its DIY pipe so does the original pipe have that with some purpose or is it some mistake..?
agreed APY 99-00 is same tax and insurance group(17) and should be had for that reason alone but AMK(2001+) is wideband lambda more tuneable(more tax also as is its on or after 2001 emission laws) but APY is upgradable for about £100 ecu and a part of a loom and a wideband lambda sensor
Hi there guys
Im selling my 2001 51 Reg Audi S3. I know its a BAM engine as the chassis number and the engine number both clearly state its BAM.
Annoyingly have a buyer for my car but they have HPI Checked my car and its showing its a 210bhp??!!
How does that work out??
Left hand side of the engine on the fron there is a tab with the engine code stamped into it.
Yep definitely says bam. Not checked the hpi myself yet gonna see if he's trying it on...cheers for that.