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AH Fab / Ebay / Forge S3/A3 FMIC installs (image heavy)

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by <tuffty/>, Jul 10, 2009.

  1. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    These are realy bad pictures but this is the route i had to take to keep 62mm pipe work and my fog lights
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    There are as you may see 2 small dents in the pipe work where i needed to get a little more clearance on parts like aircon pipes to be sure they didnt get touched . One dent is also there so i could keep the foglights,
    This is not ideal but the interuptions in flow is minimal and the shape was needed to mean the kit would work,
  2. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    stainless pipe? what have you done for beads on the pipe ends
    and dents?

    ewww dude..
  3. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    Trust me... I spent near 6hr looking at how to do this without using smaller pipe. We "reshaped " 2 small areas to keep things clear.
    The area is about 2mm deep spread out over a 50mm length. so its a small thing realy ( audi put a much bigger deformation in the top boost pipe )
    The ends of the pipes have been flaired slightly and have a small run of weld around them to stop the clamp moving ,
    The clamps have since been changed to micklor as i wasnt able to get any realy stronge clamps other than them localy
  4. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    2.5" pipes all the way from turbo hot pipe to innlet manifold while maintaining the fogs (custom brackets for those eventually) can be done but it's a pain :laugh:

    Well worth tho...Even though I wouldn't do it again hehe

    Forge core and custom 2.5" piping...yes it's cheap ass clamps and there's no fancy welding. Custom made MAP sensor pipe too...OE is rather flimsy and squeezed a fair bit. It has held boost (1.6 bar) for some time now...No matter how you abuse it keeps freeeeezing cold...

    [​IMG]
  5. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    Looks nice that matie.
    Im hoping to clean mine up when i get time.
    I have retained the standard fog fittings as i didnt want to have to get that involved to be honest. shaved a little from the drivers side bracket though
  6. m444ty p
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    m444ty p Member

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    This one mod i am going to take on.
  7. dela
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    dela Member

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    just ordered everything for the ebay kit;
    Your payment for £237.43 has been processed by PayPal

    nice and cheap cant wait to get it on!
  8. m444ty p
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    m444ty p Member

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    What intercooler did you get?
  9. dela
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    dela Member

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  10. m444ty p
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    m444ty p Member

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    Could you pm me the hose list and clamps what you bought. thanks
  11. quattro rob
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    quattro rob Member

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    order my kit from revs, i like the look of them on show so for 215 delivered you cant really go wrong
  12. dela
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    dela Member

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    literaly just ordered all the hoses from S3 Kev's list in post 13 near the start, read it, thats the guide im following
  13. m444ty p
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    m444ty p Member

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    I see, so you are not keeping the fogs then?
  14. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    there is no way you could possibly keep the fogs with that size core as you can see by READING the posts on here people are just about managing with 62mm pipe work so 76mm no chance
  15. dela
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    dela Member

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    no im not bothered about the fogs, they dont help at all when its foggy anyway, should make the s3 look a bit more aggressive though
  16. quattro rob
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    quattro rob Member

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    came today so will be playing with on weekend,
  17. will.f_1.8t
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    will.f_1.8t Member

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    Im in process of fitting the kit, with a few other bits could some one get a picture up of where the turbo end pipe connects to, sorry for sounding stupid!

    this would really help, as the audi is looking rather sorry for its self in pieces!
  18. Plunky
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    Plunky Member

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    have you taken the original boost pipes off? if so, you should clearly be able to see where the original pipe comes off the the turbo at the back of the engine and goes round towards the drivers side.
  19. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    It's a little obscured by the coolant pipe heat shielding, but it should help to show the routing of the standard boost pipes off of the turbo.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  20. will.f_1.8t
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    will.f_1.8t Member

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    cheers for the info, will crack on with it this weekend. :thumbsup:
  21. quattro rob
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    quattro rob Member

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    I started mine today, got the front mount siiting loads further back then the black a3 up the page, made brackets and the cooler is about 3mm of the rad and 2mm of the crash bar, had to cut about a 1" OF the passenger side bottom pipe on the bend to fit in correct place, i also needed a maf tube which i didnt relise until today so order one will complete when it arrives,
    Tryed the bumper after removing fogs and having to cut the fog housing out fits very well but the covers which cover the fog lights dont fit so pipes are gonna be on show, the passenger side pipe now fits level with the recess of the bumper and also doesnt stick out of the bumper looks very well i think, am gonna have to play with the drivers side when maf arrives to get it sitting as nice and i think it will look like well when all done, total spend is around 300 mark with clamps etc,
    I will update with pics etc when all completed
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
  22. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    glad it's going well for you mate, although I can assure you you won't have the core any further back then the one we did, despite how it looks in the pics, the core is actually back flat against the RAD.

    Be very careful about cutting anything down too, I thought I needed to cut a bit off one of mine so took 20mm off, only to later find I could get the next pipe sitting better, and wouldn't have needed the cut, but I was stuck with it!
  23. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    I cant believe that the companies who make these ebay coolers hasn't knocked up something similar to the AH measurements that we're all looking for, they'd make a killing. Even a cooler that just has smaller inlet and outlet would be nice, instead of all the massive ones on ebay.
  24. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Thats can be sorted if you want
  25. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Yes please. I'd like a core the same dimensions as the forge/AH fab core but at the eBay price, around £80 ;)
  26. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    The ebay cores aren't that efficient by all accounts, the ones that Alex (AH Fabs) uses in the one we designed for my S3 uses a much better core but obviously it comes at a price... that said, £250 for the AH Fabs S3 cooler is not a lot and makes for less installation headaches than getting a generic ebay one fitted..

    Pays yer money, takes yer choice..

    <tuffty/>
  27. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    The ebay core is about the same size as the forge/AH core isn't it?

    The pipes can be modified
  28. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    I will probably be getting the AH one in the new year at some point but just had another quick scout round eBay to see if I could find a cheap one. For me running a stage 1 map all I care about is keeping the fog lights and reducing the AITs and I'm sure a cheapo eBay one will do the job I want it too if I can find one that is similar dimensions to the AH/forge.
  29. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNIVERSAL-LAR...arParts_SM?hash=item2a03409d07#ht_1307wt_1167

    Same one i have on and just followed Kev's guide to fitting
  30. garyrmills
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    garyrmills Member

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    fitted my cooler a while back now forgot to post some pics...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    didnt do any before or after to readouts but when i took it back to get the map tweaked they said it had made a difference and turned it up abit more :) turbo seems to spool up pretty much the same but sounds a little louder
  31. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    It's too big. I want to keep the fogs which is why I was looking for one that has similar dimenions as the AH/Forge cores with 50-60mm inlet/outlets.
  32. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    I want that size cooler but with the fogs lol.
  33. AHFabs
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    AHFabs Guest

    It depends on what you want, An intercooler that is designed for the job and uses parts and materials that are correct for the life of the car, or a cheap import that will rot from the inside out in about 2 - 3 years even though the core material is more suitable for lorries and trains and weighs a ton.

    This is not sour grapes either as we have loads of work on and are not touting for business.

    If you do not need over 400 BHP there is no point going any larger than 51 mm. But why are the inlet tubes larger on the car then you may ask ?

    Audi use these engines for other applications that are well over 540 BHP, and are homologated for racing use so they use 60 mm tubes so they do not have to re homologate the inlet size.

    Also by using the larger inlet diameter it passes the crash test that checks if fuel lines and electric cables are not cut in a crash, the larger diameter is stronger.
    The same reason applies as to why Audi do not fit a front mount in the first place.
    So if you wonder why our intercoolers cost more than the Cheapo ones, it is because I only design and make intercoolers that have taken all the above into consideration, in fact the core we use costs more to me than the complete `cooler from Ebay. Just one of the reasons is because we insist on a coating inside the `cooler to stop the internal corrosion.
    So you do get what you pay for and I can assure that you will not get a better job for the money, in fact we are alone in this that we guarantee the quality of our work even for Motorsport use.

    All the best,

    Alex.
  34. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    question alex..
    what do you use to calculate that 51mm is up to the 400bhp level?

    and another one.. do you remember dealing with a guy called adam oakley ref seat ibiza fmic applications.. and made fmic's for him?

    thanks
  35. AHFabs
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    AHFabs Guest

    I use Solidworks and Catia for the initial design, then fine tuning on the dyno or rolling road.

    Yes I do remember Adam, How is he getting on I have not heard from him for ages.

    Cheerz,

    Alex.
  36. Forge
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    Forge Member

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    Good to see Alex on here , quality stuff at A&H , you may say " well you would say that wouldnt you " but the air cores that Forge & A&H use are so different from the ebay stuff you see its untrue .
    When we design an intercooler we test 3 different air cores , all with different internal fin construction , this can change the rate of cooling , speed of air transition , etc , we test each one on a rolling road , and on the road with thermocouples attached to the inlet & and the out let measuring the air temp, when all data is gathered we decide which air core is best for the application we are making it for ..all this testing etc takes time and money , and what we produce works , if it doesnt , we simply will not sell it , most of the ebay cores I have seen and tested are poorly manufactured and and almost like an " open box " so poor is the cooling effect , so much so our test engineers call them " ebay interwarmers " .... ALL Forge intercoolers are tested , and guaranteed for LIFE , that also includes the parts we supply with them.

    Makes sense

    It's unwise to pay too much, but it's unwise to pay too little.
    When you pay too much you lose a little money, that's is all.
    When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything,
    because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing
    you bought it to do. The common law of business balance
    prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. It can't be done.
    If you deal with the lower pricing seller, it's well to add something
    for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough
    to pay for a better service and product
  37. Pat
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    Pat Member

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    I have just got an AH item from alex... Cant fault his work... Very pleased withwhat i got for very little money..
  38. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    He's moved on to Jap cars I believe, dropped out of the Seat world a few years ago.
    My core on my ibiza racecar is one of yours so far as I know. (circa 2002)
    63mm pipework and 600bhp so far so on it, AIT's are good.
    I'm curious as to 63mm pipework being maybe on the edge of too small now for the GT35R's airflow (35psi, 9000rpm 1.8t motor)
  39. AHFabs
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    AHFabs Guest

    You are OK with the 63 mm, in fact 60 mm tube is OK for around 620 BHP.

    Once you go over 680 BHP it would be good to go to 76 mm the you should be OK for a good 750 + BHP which if it is genuine power and not pub horse power will be savage on you tyres but great fun :racer:

    Alex.
  40. AHFabs
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    AHFabs Guest

    Thanks for the above support.

    As can be seen, to get a properly designed and tested product to the market, we would have to make about 3 sets of intercoolers all fitted, tested, tweeked and adjusted which would amount to 3 weeks of hard work before getting into marketing etc.
    That is why we do not bother doing the whole kit. I dont mind doing the odd intercooler now and again to help out a bit but credit where it is due should go to Forge for still producing the full kits.
    If we were going to do them on a regular basis we would need to charge over a £1000.00 per kit to realise £40.00 per hour which is less than you pay for a garage service done by a 17 year old.

    The Porsche 962 intercoolers took over a month of development time even when we had drawings and specs to work from but we could recover our costs as they cost £2500.00 each but thankfully they appreciate the work involved.

    Cheerz,

    Alex.

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