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Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by daver555, Jun 17, 2011.
Just to be sure can you go and try and hold 2k rpm in park. Note what the rpm needle does.
Paddy, just tried again and it does the same in a park and in neutral. The needle does nothing unexpected aprt from drop and rise in synch with the revs.
OK mate you need to scan it but i wouldn't worry too much at this point. Mine had the cam chain problem and the needle was flicking about quite violently. When you get it scanned cut/paste the results onto a message here with all the info including the engine No. and controller No etc which will be all part of the scan. The chances of it being chains is minimal. Mine ran on 6cyl for exactly 2 mins on start up then went on to a multi cyl misfire for approx 1 mile then cleared and ran fine all day. what you describe sounds like the software update which i a easy job but get a scan first.
As Ju says, look at the VCDS map to see if anyone near you will scan it for you
Audi-Sport.net VCDS Users - Google Maps
I can see a guy called Merlin in Camberly with full vcds. Maybe PM him.
Yeah saw that but Merlin hasn't been active since end of 2009. Will PM him though. Mahoosive thanks to Ju and Paddy for their prompt responses and calming words. Virtual pints all round I think. Mines a Bombadier. Fingers crossed it's just the firmware update. Will keep you all posted.
FYI my symptoms were:- From cold start it would hold revs perfectly at 1800-2000rpm for roughly 2/3 minutes, after that it was impossible to hold the revs at that rpm, tick over was fine. On the road that would equate to flat spots at light throttle and more noticeable slightly uphill, full throttle acceleration was fine. After the update the difference was like night and day, not just the hesitation but the overall feel of the car was improved.
As Paddy says, get the scan done and report it back. At the same time check the measuring blocks 208 and 209 in the engine controller, up to 8 is fine over that can be an indication of chain lengthening
I agree Ju, defo will be fine when on a cold start which was because the software addressed an over fuel issue so from cold it was not so noticeable as the engine will richen up anyway ( kind of like being on choke). I have half a feeling daves problem will not be so bad tomorrow when its not actually the hottest day of the year ( 32c down here today)
Morning chaps. This morning's drive to work threw up something new! Practically no symptoms from yesterday aside from the slight missfire feeling on tickover which happened twice. Rest of the journey it didn't happen! However, when I was almost at work I had a clear road and accelerated moderatley and the judder occured around the 2k mark but the engine management light flashed about 6 or so times and then went out. Took a slight detour and did the same moderate acceleration and it juddered at 2k and the light flashed again then went out. Got to work and sat with it idling for a good 5 mins and it was running fine. Popped the bonet and no noises at all. Getting worried again!
sounds now like something much more basic. maybe a plug or coil pack breaking down under load but again if the engine light flashes its almost sure to have registered a fault you can retrieve with vcds.
Bottom line is i wouldnt worry to much. I know its disappointing when you have a new car and problems but i think its something run of the mill. The next point is..if its a coil pack then audi might replace the lot free as its a known problem in which case it might be worth taking it to them to diagnose. The only thing is they will want £100 just to put vcds on it which is crazy. But you might get £200 worth of coils free......its a gamble as to whether its a coil ?? Next step has got to be to retrieve the fault code from the car so a scan is a must now IMHO..
Cheers Paddy, your a star. Should I go to my nearest Audi Main Dealer or go to the place I bought it from? My concern over the place I bought from is I currently don't have confidence in them and will they have the diagnostic kit?
Anyone had dealings with Camberley Audi or Guidlford Audi as I need to figure out which one will be the most helpfull?
I also have AMD just round the corner from work here in Woking, would they be able to do the scan and firmware update?
Went over to AMD Woking and what a great bunch they are. Scanned the car whilst I waited and he showed me on the screen the fault code which was relating to a crankshaft sensor. He cleared the fault codes and told me to drive it for a couple of days and come back for a second scan to confirm the sensor. Here's hoping it's the sensor! I asked him about the coil packs and he said there's no problem with them. When I got back to the office I phoned the garage we bought the car from and they said to keep them informed and to bring the car to them as they said "We're very sorry, just bring it back and we'll get it sorted for you". I'll keep you all informed.
Stick with AMD mate, Guildford are stupidly expensive, thats where i got mine done.
Hope you get it sorted. As Ju and Paddy said it does sound a simple fix and if its the sensor, its easy.
Dont let this put you off, these V6's have a few hickups to stress you but sometimes I'm sure we are just waiting for something to go wrong lol. I had the hesitation but mine was also when driving/accelerating at the 2k revs but mine also did it when cold but the update cured mine totally. Oh and when my coil packs went I had no prior warning, they just went so it ran rough like a bag of spanners.
Stick with AMD Woking, sounds like they will sort you. Keep smiling, it is a great car.
Had the coil packs changed on my 2004 3.2 DSG (53,000 miles) last month, just phoned Audi as the service and MOT was due and asked about the coil packs at the same time and they informed me they needed replacing, no scan required so no worries there.
Success! Popped into AMD again this morning and Simon (boss-man) was out with is laptop as I arrived. Quick check and only a missfire logged no cracnk shaft sensor fault. He popped the bonnet and pulled out number 1 coil pack. As he withdrew it from the engine I noticed a trail of smoke and a rather sorry looking coil pack tip. Simon replaced the coil pack with a new one, ran the car with the laptop still plugged in and no faults registering. Missfire on idle was gone so went out for a short run and no hesitation around the 2k mark. Fingers crossed thats it and it's happy motoring from here on in. I'd like to say a huuuuge thankyou to those on here that responded with advice (you know who you are). Also a big thanks to AMD Woking who based on this experience will be looking after the servicing of my car from here on in.
Glad you got the car sorted. Let the happy driving begin! Drove mine today (been a while!) and it was just fantastic! the sound is awsome....love it. Enjoy your car.
Glad you got it sorted Dave and glad it was just a coil pack ! I really had the feeling it was but its always difficult to diagnose via the WWW If you get any more problems then i recon between Sarah, Ju and myself we have a pretty good idea about the strange habits of the 3.2 so just start a thread and we will see it....eventually That said its just a minor hicup and you should be fine now.
You may want to let an audi dealership know you have had the problem and let them know you are aware of the replacements being fitted by them and see if they will change the other 5 for you. If not then do what i do and buy and carry a spare just in case You will know next time what you are looking for.
Enjoy ya car mate :thumbsup:
Fingers crossed that's it, I know when I had one go the engine sounded terminal!!
Enjoy the V6
Update. Been driving like a charm since having the coilpack replaced yesterday morning. When I parked up at work this morning I thought i'd try the 1800rpm test. Not sure why but I did and there is hesitation still. Not as bad as before though! I went straight over to AMD and got it scanned and they found no fault code. They revved it to 1800 and witnessed the lumpyness then took it for a short drive, back to the workshop and no fault code. This is getting annoying now as all I want is my new car running perfectly! AMD suggested it might be the crankshaft sensor but as there was no fault code I was told to continue driving it and if it develops into something more than on tickover to come back. Frustrated to say the least.
The lumpyness at 2k is the software without a doubt. The coilpack was the hesitation on the road. You wll just ave to get the software update.
Cheers Paddy. I assume AMD won't be able to do the software update? If I go to my local Audi Dealership (Camberley) what words should I be saying to them? What is the software for, the ECU??? Sorry I'm a noob when it comes to technical stuff like this.
Edit: I've just read Leeroy's thread and your response. Is that the software/firmware code/numbers you refer to?
Originally the code was as per Ju's sig but i gather it has now been changed to the info i put on Leeroys thread. As far as i am aware that is exactly what you need. I had mine done at Guildford and i think Camberly is part of the same group.
Cheers Paddy. I stopped in at Camberley Audi just now and that was an experience! The guy I spoke to said they need it for a half day to a day to see what the problem is and do a free health check! This was after explaning the issues I'd had over the last few days and the new coilpack fitted yesterday. I told him there are no fault codes being registered and the lumpyness only occurs at 2k in N or P. He said there a lots of codes released and they need to pinpoint which one is appropriate for my problem! I got the feeling he didn't like me knowing what I knew and that I wasn't just taking his word for it. He said that they would check for any recalls that may have slipped through the net on my car and would carry any out that were needed. He then said if a software/firmware is required I would need to give them permission to do this before they carried out the work! I got it provisionally booked for the end of next week and in the meantime I'll speak with AMD again on Saturday (off to Goodwood FoS tomorrow). Oh, and just before we finished he hastily dropped in the subject of hourly rates.....£95 per hour I nearly fainted at his words but at this moment in time I just want it sorted! I still find it hard to believe that they won't just do what I'm asking them to do. I said it didn't need a health check as it's just been MOT'd but he just ignored that! Am I being led a merry dance or should I just say NO and firmly tell them all I want is the update???
Standard Audi response i'm afraid, I doubt an inspection will find anything as they only understand fault codes and even then they don't always know how to interpret them. A little polite firmness is required and talk to a master tech rather than a pen pusher, get him to come out to the car and demonstrate the problem. If you still get no joy then move on to the next dealer. Only takes 1/2hr to do the update and that's with a cup of tea while the computer does the work!
Guildford charge £160 an hour. !!
I can sort of see that while you know what you are talking about..they dont know that. I can also see that while we know its missing this update it might be missing others as well and it might not be a good idea to apply this update until previous ones have been applied first. they might also change your coil packs for you and again they would want to check the ones you have are the original audi ones. Give them the benefit of the doubt first......My last health check they did top up the oil/water washer bottles etc but they also said the front disc's needed changing and that was 2 years ago !! since then i have mentioned this at 2 MOT's and i have been told they are ok...so you never really know.
Last time my car went into Audi Guildford the diagnostic fee came to nearly £2.5k !! at £1200 a day labour you dont want them trying to find a fault for a couple of days
Paddy, cheers matey. Looks like I'd better go through with the Thursday booking but tell them if they need anymore than 3hrs to call me and let me know what's been flagged up.
I had the same response but from a woman behind a desk in a nasty manner! I wasnt taking it so spole to someone higher. They are reluctant to do any update, partly as Paddy said, in case others are also needed, but also they are AUDI and dont like being told their own business lol. Stick to your guns but as Ju said in a nice , polite but firm way. This update has been used on a fair few cars now and all have been sucessful and cured the issues. I wouldn't pay hours of labour but you may not have a choice. Good luck
I also had the update done, it took a bit of convincing but i managed to get it arranged via the receptionist over e-mail!
As has been mentioned, you need to be firm with what you want done - don't let them fob you off with their own investigations as this is quite a niche problem and could end up costing you a small fortune for very little gain. After i had the update done, the car has run like a dream since - before the update it was good but felt a bit frustrating to drive.. now i believe it drives as god intended
I totally agree too! They are awsome cars and pretty hard to beat! Some wont agree but hey thats what makes life interesting.
Despite numerous discussions both polite and firm, Camberley Audi were having none of it giving it the "it's company policy sir". I decided to give Audi UK a call and spoke to a very nice and understanding Customer Care Advisor called Wendy. It was left that she would contact Camberley Audi and come to an arrangement if I signed a waiver form instructing them to only carry out the update without any comeback on them. It's been a couple of days now and I haven't heard anything from Audi UK so I'll phone them again tomorrow and see what's happening.
What's the word I'm looking for.........ah yes, BALL-ACHE!
Hodl on in there, Audi UK will get it sorted for you.
Update - I got fed up waiting to hear back from Audi UK so sent an email to my next nearest Audi dealer (but a main dealer) Walton Audi. I received an email back from them with the follwing response "The paperwork for the software update clearly states that it is to cure a complaint of poor response when changing gear at over 5000 rpm". Before I speak to them further are they right re 5k not 2k? I gave them the following info:
TPI Number 2010289/3
svm code for the update is 8P01A005
The update is available to download or via a CD UPDATE DISC 4F0 906 961 N
Should I just go ahead and get the work done or should I clarify things further with them?
This is the original blurb that Ju found on a German sight. this is the software that solved the problem so show them this then point out that the new software code you have now is a replacement for this original code. Obviously if they can still apply the original code below then so much the better IMHO.
Software update of the controller (Motronic) of the VR6 3.2-Liter engine
over an update the control software some well-known smaller lack are repaired such as Motorruckeln, jerky no-load operation, power loss within the final range etc..
AUDI puts this software to its workshops at the disposal.
Many forum members had themselves already up-played the update with success. They report throughout nearly all of better fuel intake with accelerating, to more force development in the passage, better sound (more full of seeds and deep sonor), as well as being omitted the power loss.
Which engines/controllers can be updated?
starting from 8/2003 BDB
starting from 9/2004 BMJ
starting from 11/2005 BOY (only the first variants)
The following engine expensive devices can be updated:
Last conditions available for the dealers:
022,906,032 APPROX.: 8P HS (BDB): 8087
022,906,032 CB: 8P DSG (BDB): 8088
022,906,032 GH: 8P HS (BMJ): 8035
022,906,032 GJ: 8P DSG (BMJ): 8036
What do I say to the dealer?
You heard that AUDI a software update makes available for the VR6 3.2-Liter-Motoren, which the Motorruckeln, vibrating, jerky no-load operation and power loss are to repair.
What, if it does not know or finds the update?
Give it the TPL procedure number: 2005748/4
Internal message code 8P01A005 or the updates CD No. 4F0 906,961 N is needed
Thus a good dealer can always which with begin
How is the update up-played?
By means of diagnostic system of the dealer
What costs me the update?
The car is not still in the guarantee period might costs develop. He is not outside of the guarantee period a good dealer anything will require. Usually become with a strange dealer around the 50. - Euro requires, what corresponds to a work expended of approx. 20-30 minutes.
How long does the update last?
Usually not longer than 30 minutes
For what does the dealer need the internal message code?
Explanation GeKo and SVM
With GeKo and SVM you know on-line binding of its diagnose unit VAS 5052 to the central servers the AUDI AG would drive through and the capacity of your diagnose unit to thus extend.
What is GeKo?
GeKo (secret and component protection) is a function, those with on-line binding of the diagnostic tester VAS 5052 the users for the order stands and training going away barrier components (e.g. Combination instrument, engine expensive equipment), keys and the component protection (air conditioner, navigation etc.) to the vehicle makes possible.
What is SVM?
SVM (software version management) is a further function, which is made available with on-line binding of the diagnostic tester VAS 5052. Thus a process-safe controller programming as well as the correct controller sheeting are made possible. The function offers additionally a support with the coding of controllers.
Perhaps helps the following info. in or others on the update leaps. There is information system - which also well-known as Elsawin under technical problem solution the following procedure in the electronic service:
Can you tell from this if my 3.2 has had the update.
Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-BDB.lbl
Part No SW: 022 906 032 CB HW: Bas isX 3
Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1.1 5604
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: AUX7Z0C8FN903C
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 1101
No your still on software code 5604, you need to be on 8088
Thanks now I will get on to Audi and find out about getting the upgrade.
Post how you get on mate. I'll be getting on to Maidstone or Canterbury Audi about this at the end of the month.
How do I get the details Sahrian has? VCDS?