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Advice needed, head gasket failure..

GazzaA3 Aug 4, 2017

  1. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    Morning all, a lot has gone on recently so will start at the bottom.

    3months ago I had access to my garage engine crane so decided to get the engine out as I had oil leaks, slipping clutch and needed to do the cam belt.
    Engine out, cam belt, head gasket and clutch all kits replaced and so perished hoses.
    All back in and seemed well until a month ago when the turbo gave up.
    No boost, about 10mm play in and out in the shaft.
    New turbo fitted two weeks ago.
    Again seemed fine, one issue though, over boosting. I was at 20-25psi now it was going off the clock I'd say 30-35psi.
    I knew this was a bit much so drove it softly until found out how to sort it.
    Yesterday morning car wouldn't start, came back to it few hours later and got it started to realise it's tappy and on the dip stick there is evidence of water in the oil.

    So no overheating meaning the boost has blown the gasket?

    Apologies on the essay, but the car has had a lot of work recently but am I assuming the right outcome?
    Compression test shows equal reading.
    Head should be off by this evening soon as I find the head bolt tool a day re learn the timeing process.

    Car is a Audi s3 8l


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  2. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    You have been driving it while running 30/35psi?

    <tuffty/>
     
  3. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    Once it got that high but then haven't been no where near that reading


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  4. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Difficult to say then... going there once on an engine not built to take it can potentially cause issues...

    Can only generalise without seeing the car tbh... its plausible the headgasket has gone... its not a common thing as they are very robust but running that boost on std headbolts may have lifted the head... may have bent a rod if you are running std rods... could be an issue with the gasket or the bolts depending if you used pattern parts or elring/OE... some pattern part bolts look nasty so would only use OE or elring personally...

    You could do compression test, pull the plugs and look for damp and any other odd signs, bore scope to see if water is getting in the bores...

    <tuffty/>
     
  5. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    Did a compression test before drained the oil last night, all was equal across the cylinders.

    I do agree with where the head has lifted and broken the seal, got no other option then to get the head off I think at the moment and inspect further


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  6. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    [​IMG]


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  7. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    downpipe nut is on the wrong way round

    <tuffty/>
     
  8. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    I noticed that

    Does the actuator rod look ok?


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  9. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    not sure what you are expecting to find... all you can really do is check the preload... should tighten to where the actuator holds the wastegate shut with no travel on the actuator itself then add three full turns to 'preload' the actuator spring before tightening up

    <tuffty/>
     
  10. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    Is it definitely the head gasket? I have had orangey / yellow foam on my dipstick on and off since January - but I think that is the engine is puffing from worn rings or valves etc - there is a lot of pressure in the cam cover and it rarely looks wet oiley in there. I assume mine is built up condensation due to unhealthy engine.
     
  11. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    So the head is off.
    Cleaned up and ready to go back on but, the cam belt tensioner, I see it's suggested to be changed each time but it's brand new with the cam belt less then 100miles ago.
    So can it be re used? The adjuster seems solid on the tensioned position..


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  12. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    did you put the pin in the tensioner - I would keep the tensioner but you have to change the bolts as they stretch when you torque them up.

    could you see any evidence of leakage? shiny top of piston or breaks in the metal gasket or rubber seals?
     
  13. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    If its 'new' it can be reused... you need the locking pin it would have come with or something similar of a suitable strength... the pin is a spring steel so doesn't bend easily... a paper clip for example may not hold the piston without bending so will make it difficult to pull if it does..

    You will need to slowly compress the piston back in a vice so the hole on the piston lines up with the hole in the damper and insert the pin... its now ready to re-use...

    Don't over do it or go too fast else you will push the whole piston assembly further down the damper and the piston will lose the travel it needs to keep the belt under tension... this would be bad...

    <tuffty/>
     
  14. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    head skimmed?
     
  15. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    Nightmare, after few long days at work I got chance to challenge the car.
    Got to the point of getting the cambelt tensioner off. And that's where I sill am.
    Seems all bolts out the engine mount apart from one, the one that seems to run through the mount and tensioner into the block.
    Any suggestions how to get to it?
    Iv tried lowering the engine and jacking it up but Carnt seemto get enough room..


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  16. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    I think I had to remove the water bottle to undo the bolt and then raise the car if the engine is on blocks/ramp or lower the engine if on a crane in order to wiggle the engine mount out.

    IMAG2269.jpg
     
  17. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    Right ok, car is on ramps at the moment, I did remover bottle but other pipes in the way aswel so will give that a try first!
    Thanks


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  18. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    I cant quite remember but as my car was on axle standards I lowered the car leaving the engine in situ sitting on a ramp so I assume you need to raise the engine - just be careful as the downpipe will start lifting the car up and you will put stress on other pipes and mount on the nearside.

    you can then get a socket with the right array of extensions just above the body work if I remember rightly.

    good luck :)
     
  19. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    Got it with some more adjustments, thanks!


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  20. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    Opinions on these torque settings, I'm 90% sure when I looked before for the torque settings it was 40nm plus 2x90 which I did..


    [​IMG]


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  21. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Go round the head bolts twice at 40nm, twice at 60nm then 90+90

    Going round twice on each torque setting helps the head settle on the gasket properly... you will find that the inner bolts go loose as you work out round the tightening sequence...

    If you used 40nm + 90+90 to tighten the last one then this is probably why it failed

    <tuffty/>
     
  22. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    Iv always gone back over with the torque setting cause of what you mentioned.
    The thing is I think I did read up somewhere where it said to do 40nm +90+90 so I think that is why it failed.

    Hopefully will all be running by end of play today!


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  23. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    did you do anything else whilst the head was out the way? perfect time to get to the turbo and downpipe - clean the head throttle body injectors etc etc

    careful with the coolant flange on the nearside of the engine when its going back together I put the wrong cap head bolt on so it was not wider than the seat and the water pressure broke it.
     
  24. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    Turbo is new so that's good, but double checked all boots on down pipe and jubilee's
    The plastic pipe work under the inlet was in a bad way, took it all off and cleaned, to find it was snapped! For now iv glued it all up nicely until I order catch can and bits to replace it!

    Double checking the timing tomorrow as was a bit of a pain to get the belt on so what to double check both pulleys markings.

    Few pipes will need replacing soon, coolant and fuel lines one the left hand side of the inlet.

    So a few more bits to do after this but least iv spotted them before they got any worse!


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  25. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    I was out a tooth from timing so threw an error code after about every 100 miles (some retardation limit exceeded or similar), you can actually adjust the timing belt without taking everything back off (still need to remove lower pulley and timing shields) by marking the belt and the pullies and using the 5mm stud and nut method to screw down the adjuster I managed to put the belt one tooth further along on the bottom pulley.

    good luck - my old belt and water pump were actually like new - although I am pleased those bolts have a nut head in addition to allen key as they were very easily rounded by the allen key
     
  26. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    Morning all!
    So yesterday the car came all back together and running!
    All is good at the moment apart from a few little bits.

    Firstly I had to repair the knock sensor I think it is, bolted on the block on the left under the inlet, the connection had broke so had to put some small terminals on it but didn't know which was they went. It's running a bit rough so going to switch them round and see if any difference.

    Secondly the oil pipe which i had to repair, now I have a catch can, need to get some pipeing, but will look into what others have done it on here.

    If it stops raining I can give it another once over.

    Thanks for all the help


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  27. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    [​IMG]

    Running lean??


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  28. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Brown is normally good... whats block 31 saying in VCDS?

    <tuffty/>
     
  29. GazzaA3

    GazzaA3 Member

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    I don't have access to VCDS at the moment, only a Bluetooth obd.


    Last night when car was warm and running lumpy, I tried disconnecting the coils to see the response of the engine note.
    All ran worse when disconnected apart from cylinder 2, where nothing changed.
    What could this mean?


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  30. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    I would disconnect the injectors over the coils... its easier and you don't end up flooding the cylinder or cause a misleading misfire as a result.

    Eliminate the coil packs by swapping the one on the suspect cylinder with a n other good one from another cylinder... if the misfire moves its the coil pack... if it doesn't it could be the plug...

    Pull the plugs and see what they look like noting which cyl they are from as validation... the plug from the suspect cylinder should be a different colour or could be obviously damaged... clean up if not damaged, check gaps (0.7mm) and put the plug back but in a known good cylinder with a known good coil pack etc... check to see if the misfire moves... if it has then its the plug...

    If not then its more likely something damaged in the cylinder... this could be a bent rod, damaged rings or damaged valves

    <tuffty/>
     

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