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Adjustable tie bars, Why?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Pirrex, May 14, 2009.

  1. Pirrex
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    Pirrex Member

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    [May 14, 2009]
    I've noticed lots of people who are lowering their 8L's are getting adjustable tie bars for the rear camber. Is there a reason why people are buying these, instead of modding the stock ones to look like tie bars from newer models, as they are quite expensive.

    Wouldn't a simple mod from this:

    [​IMG]

    to this:

    [​IMG]

    be as good, and you can put the money you saved on a new ARB instead, or am i missing something?
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  3. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [May 14, 2009]
    they use them when a cars been lowered so that the tyres dont scrub unevenly over time
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  4. Pirrex
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    Pirrex Member

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    [May 14, 2009]
    You did so not read my post. lol
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  5. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    [May 14, 2009]
    Pikey mod ahoy lol

    Erm not sure.....Peace of mind with a new product....Perhaps most dont have the knowledge for that.
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  6. Pirrex
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    Pirrex Member

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    [May 14, 2009]
    Doesn't look like peace to mind to me, as they keep snapping all the time lol
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  7. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    [May 14, 2009]
    True. Not heard the Forge one fail though.
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  8. Trick
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    Trick Member

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    [May 14, 2009]
    So what's the difference between the standard & Modded? just the elongation (if thats a word) of the hole? seems a bit botched.

    My audi is lowered and uneven tyre wear is shocking on it, but not sure i would go to those lengths, unless it works fine lol
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  9. vetch
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    vetch S3

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    [May 14, 2009]
    Evidence of this?
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  10. s3ollie
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    s3ollie Member

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    [May 14, 2009]
    i doubt very much you will get the required adjustment from elongating the holes. thay are elongated from standard slightly so the car can be set up at the factory.
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  11. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 14, 2009]
    He is reffering to a recall for early S3's who had the ends of the lower arms snap off right at the end due to a bad batch which was seizing up at the bush. Mine had the recall soon after I purchased it, I've not heard of any incidence of lower arm failure since the recall was done.
    #10
  12. Pirrex
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    Pirrex Member

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    [May 14, 2009]
    #11
  13. vetch
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    vetch S3

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    [May 14, 2009]
    Are you referring to adjustable tiebars or OEM?

    One person has had an adjustable bar snap recently so this equates to "they keep snapping all the time"??
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  14. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 14, 2009]
    OEM, it was an Audi Recall on early S3's and TT Quattro's within a certain chassis number range, even made the news at the time!
    #13
  15. Pirrex
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    Pirrex Member

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    [May 14, 2009]
    Oh come on, "a little" aggravating never hurt anybody :p

    But my point is that I don't understand why to buy expensive adjustable ones instead of modding you old ones. Even if "they wouldn't snap", it's still expensive.
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  16. vetch
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    vetch S3

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    [May 14, 2009]
    I'm not aggravated mate, far from it. But you made a sweeping generalisation, with no evidence to back it up. Which is naughty!

    Ive looked into alternative/cheaper methods including eccentric bushes and modding the tie bar (as I believe the camber on 8Ps can be adjusted). But, adjustable tie bars seem the only only sure fire way of sorting it out.
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  17. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [May 14, 2009]
    i so didnt haha.....

    still a pikey mod tho as said above.... your gonna create a larger hole to enable slippage to occur if the pressure was right, this in turn would weaken the part..... id rather buy adjustables and know that my car would be set up properly by the wheel balancing chaps
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  18. Pirrex
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    Pirrex Member

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    [May 14, 2009]
    That was not what i meant, i thought it was the correct word, but appearently not lol. When i said they snap, it was obviously irony, if that sound right :-D


    I still think this would work, and that it wouldn't slip even how you would drive it.
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  19. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    [May 14, 2009]
    i think this mod would be fine alot of cars come out the factory with elongated holes to adjust susspension alignments unlessthe bolt came losse then it wont move at all the rear wishbone is adjustable in this way on an s3,
    the only problem i feel you might have is that you wont be able to widen the hole enough to get the camber back into where you want it, i have just put forge tie bars on mine with the car really low and cant get to -1 degree still as there isnt enough adjustment so think you will struggle with that mod in all honesty
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  20. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [May 14, 2009]
    i cant see how it wouldnt slip..... obviously it would have to be super tight, and that level of tightness would surely compress the metal weakening it
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  21. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    [May 14, 2009]
    when i put coilovers on my old car it had adjustable camber in this way on the strut and it never once moved, the bolt will go tight enough to clamp it in place thats for sure, but yes it is a bodge job lol
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  22. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 14, 2009]
    I wouldn't trust them.pay for adjustable ones.
    I still am not seeing uneven wear on my tyres and I haven't upgraded or maybe I'm driving like Miss Daisy :whistle2:
    #21
  23. vetch
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    vetch S3

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    [May 14, 2009]
    Well, there wont be any bodge jobs on my S3, it will be done properly the first time. Which, in my opinion will save me money in the long run.

    And as S3_Kev has said above, I have heard that both eccentric bushes and modding the existing tie bar don't give enough adjustment to bring the camber back to what it should be.
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  24. vetch
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    vetch S3

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    [May 14, 2009]
    How much are you lowered mate? Mine is lowered about 35mm (maybe more, I bought it lowered so Ive no idea what springs are on it), and I can see the camber is out on my wheels - the rear wheels don't make the correct contact with the road surface.
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  25. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  26. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    [May 14, 2009]
    i belive the s3 has a bit of negative camber any way, but the other day when i was lowereing my back end i measured it before and after and at the time i lowered it a further 10mm roughtly and that gave me an extra 0.5 degrees camber so with 25mm your looking at 1.5 degrees of camber on top of standard so probably about 2.5 degrees in total. i have adjustable tie bars and still have it set up to 2 degrees negative, your find the car is more tail happy with the extra camber thats the reason to change it so people tend to go for between 0.5 and 1 degree camber for better stability all depends how you drive etc
    #25
  27. jimbobery
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    jimbobery S3

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    [May 15, 2009]
    I've been thinking the same recently about tie-bars, they are a lot of money for something that provides such a simple change (i.e camber adjustment).
    It is especially annoying that I'm pretty sure the adjustable tie-bars are just new OEM ones that are chopped in half with bits welded in to house the threaded bar inbetween (this is definately how the ECS tie bars are made, although I've no idea how much they get OEM ones for???).

    Unfortunately I think the cost is prehaps still justified as they should prevent uneven wear to $200+ worth of tyres, and you can get the benefit of correct adjustment for your new suspension - no point on spending loads on new suspension if it doesn't handle correctly?
    (keyboard settings are buggered, $ should be a pound sign above)

    Slightly related question: When new suspension is put on doesn't it take time for the car to settle? If so, if you got an alignment done straight after new suspension might it get thown out once the car settles, requiring another alignment?
    Would the best thing to do be to fit new suspension, wait a few weeks and then get an alignment?

    Another only slightly realted question: The Weitec Ultra GT kit for the S3 only lowers it 15mm on the back - is this enough of a change to throw the rear camber out? Voorhees isn't noticing tyre wear at 25mm drop so 15mm should have even less impact?
    #26
  28. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 15, 2009]
    My Car is lowered by 25mm at the rear on Eibachs, and I can see a higher wear rate on the inner edges of my tyres. You have to factor in things like alloy wheel sizes and tyre widths, which are 19" on mine, so would put more pressure on the tyre edges due to less tyre flex from the lower profile tyres. It doesn't really bother me though, since I'm doing under 5k miles a year.
    #27
  29. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 15, 2009]
    The KW ones I have are manufactured, Forge used to mod OEM ones so I am told but don't think they do now.

    You will need an alignment right after as lowering will effect the toe angle both front and rear and this will completely bugger the way the car drives let alone tyres and handling... I fitted Bilstein B8's, Eibach Pro 25mm Front / 20mm Rear springs and KW tie bars and the car was awful to drive initially. Took it to my local alignment place straight away and it transformed the car. Yes, new suspension will 'settle' but the place I went to told me to bring it back in after a month or so and they will tweak it up for free... woorth haggling I reckon...

    <tuffty/>
    #28
  30. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    [May 15, 2009]
    id recomend waiting a day or 2 then get the alignment done properly in one go not to get it done prior to the suspension seteling and go back for 'tweeks' i wouldnt expect them to re align the whole car again once its settled as thats what it would need,

    forge arms are definantly manufactured also as i have recently put them on mine not sure if they used to mod them though
    #29

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