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ABZ V8 (or others) ECU info

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by aragorn, Aug 8, 2008.

  1. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 8, 2008]
    I'm looking into transplanting an ABZ V8 into a landrover i'm rebuilding.

    I recon i can manage to get the 90's gearbox to mate up with help from an adaptor plate and get a flywheel machined to take the original TDi clutch, but the bit i'm worried about is the engines ECU

    I've done engine transplants in the past in numerous vauxhalls and their ECU's tend to be pretty self contained, add a few lives an earth and hook up some outputs from sensors and thats it running. I've no idea how this works with the Audi ECU though as they are a fair bit more complex

    Obviously having to goto a fully mappable engine management system will make the conversion a LOT more expensive, so if i could keep it running the original ecu that would be awesome, however i cant really find out any info on it bar a few mentions of the ecu taking a fit if it cant see the autobox

    Anyone got any info on this?

    Cheers

    Kevin
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  2. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 8, 2008]
    You need to speak to Siena he's just had a loom made up for his V8 conversion so he will be able to point you in the right direction.
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  3. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 12, 2008]
    I've conversed with siena over pm and done some searching and am a bit happier that i know what i'm doing now.

    It seems i require the Engine ECU, Immobiliser ECU, instrument cluster and pickup coil along with a transponder equipped key

    Does anyone know where the Immobiliser ECU resides on an A8? I presume the pickup coil is simply fixed round the ignition barrel?

    I'm in two minds as to whether i should try to wire in the full instrument cluster and use that as the dials, or just connect up the basic functions required for the engine to run and stash it away somewhere...
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  4. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Aug 12, 2008]
    The A8 ECU lives in the scuttle chamber, on the driver's side.

    I have an ABZ ECU, instrument cluster AND ignition key from the same car.

    The pick-up coil is indeed on the barrel.
    #4
  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 12, 2008]
    does the Engine and the Immobiliser ECU live in the same place?

    I'm in contact with someone just now about an engine complete with the other parts, but if it falls thru i may just give you a shout, do you have the immobiliser ecu too? or is it from a 99> car with the immo ecu integrated into the clocks?
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  6. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Aug 12, 2008]
    It's from a '98 car.

    AFAIK, the IMMO codes are in the engine ECU, linked via the cluster.
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  7. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 13, 2008]
    hmm interesting, i'll check the diagram tonight for a '98 car

    i looked up a '96 model and the diagram showed an "Immobiliser control unit" which seemed to be connected to the engine ECU and the instrument cluster.

    Rosstech's website seems to suggest that some cars had Immo1 and some had immo2 depending on the age and the later type as the immobiliser control built into the clocks rather than a second ecu.

    It suggests that with immo1 there is a seperate control unit and with immo2 its integrated into the clocks, theres also a different method of programming with immo1 having its own channel in vagcom (25) and the immo2 programming being done using the instruments channel (17)

    i want to ensure i've got all the info as if i buy the engine from this guy ive been talking to and am missing some of the parts its going to be a large expensive paperweight!

    Any more info would be appreciated!
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  8. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 13, 2008]
    ok ive finally found some more info

    the immo1 control unit is part number 8D0 953 234 and sits below the instrument cluster somewhere

    http://www.vagcat.com/find/?art=8D0 953 234

    As you can see its used on A8's upto 1999 and A4's and quite a few other audis with immo1

    http://www.audiv8.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=audia8_eng&Number=153991&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

    that clarifies some more of the details

    So it would seem if your parts came from a <99 car your missing this immo ecu and i'd imagine without it you'll have some trouble as its this thats coded to the key, not the cluster!...

    I'm wondering if the instrument cluster is actually needed on an IMMO1 car at all? perhaps the connections between the immo unit and the cluster are only for things like the immo light on the dash?
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  9. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2008]
    The little box that sits under the dash is an interface, between the dash and ECU.

    It's a generic part, and to my knowledge, not coded.
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  10. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 13, 2008]
    hmm well as far as i can find out the dash board isnt tied to the key on immo1 cars, meaning you can swap the dash around and it will still work.

    I'm sure many people on here have swapped pre facelift A4 instrument clusters to fix the faulty DIS or similar without any coding issues

    From what i can tell its this immo box that contains the coding for the key, theres plenty of mentions of recoding services on the internet in general which mention the box so i can only presume its this that is tied to the key on immo1 cars

    This would also explain why its got a seperate entry in vagcom, as if it was the clocks that stored the keys you would need to access the instruments panel to program new keys (like you do on immo2 cars) rather than the seperate Immobiliser channel
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  11. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2008]
    Hmm, I see your point.
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  12. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 13, 2008]
    i've taken a screen grab of the wiring diagram (from a 98 but 96-99 all seem the same) and posted it here:

    www.lr90.org/immo1.jpg

    the big unit at the top is the engine ecu, the smaller unit on the right labelled J362 is the immo1 box.

    There are only 5 external connections from it (ingoring the connections to the pickup labelled D2)

    one to the ECU thru connector T6e, pin 9 of the immo1
    one to the K line for diagnostics, Current track 174, pin 10 of the immo1
    one to the dash board immobiliser warning light, current track 205, pin 6 on the immo1
    then 12v from 217 into pin 12 and earth from E105 (dash panel wiring harness) to pin 11

    No data lines running to the instrument cluster which i think confirms my suspicions?
    #12
  13. PW-Motorsport
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    PW-Motorsport Member

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    [Aug 14, 2008]
    I would probably use a stand alone ECU, say Emerald for this. They cost around £600 for the one you will need. Very easy to wire up on a V8 plus you can switch maps. You dont have to pay for "custom" remaps you can change the map settings yourself via your laptop.

    I am breaking a 1998 S8 with only 74k miles should you need any bits.
    Was thinking to use the engine in a back of a Caddy.
    Give me a ring
    Philip
    01437 563793
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  14. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 14, 2008]
    ive already spoke to dave walker about it, £580+vat for the ecu and then £275+vat for a map

    thats another grand on top of the conversion though and i really dont have that kinda money when the stock parts will to the job just fine.

    Plus i'm rather confident that audis map that they've likely spent millions on developing is going to run the engine better than anything someone could knock up in a day on a rolling road (not that i'm knocking dave walkers abilities) especially as its a bone stock engine.

    The immo1 setup really doesnt seem that complicated now ive gone thru it all so i'll probably be running with that, still waiting to hear if this seller is willing to ship the engine and supply me with the required immobiliser parts.

    Might be interested in the flywheel off the S8 motor though, i'll get back to you once i finally get an engine sorted out!
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  15. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Aug 14, 2008]
    Let me know if you need an S8 flywheel, just specify 32 or 40V.

    The breaking S8 will be an auto, so won't have a flywheel, the UK only got auto versions.
    #15
  16. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 14, 2008]
    Well i will need one, but it'll probably be a few months before i need it.

    What kinda price are we talking for one?

    i presume i'll need the 32v version for the ABZ
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  17. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Aug 14, 2008]
    Price to you is £250.

    Takes a 241mm clutch.
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