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A6 2.5 TDI 2005 Injector Pump Issue?

Discussion in 'A6/S6/Allroad forum (C5 Chassis)' started by TYphoon GB, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Mar 24, 2012]
    Just looking for anyone who has been here....
    Having acquired the second household Audi I have found a few issues as it developed a cough.
    Its high mileage (140K Miles).

    Vag Com

    Engine
    00550 - Start of Injection Regulation
    17-10 - Control Difference - Intermittent

    Now this looks like an Injector Pump ECU.
    Can you get the pump out without pulling the whole cambelt out?
    Front is coming off anyway.
    I am tempted to just pull the ECU but at these miles is the pump liable to be a 'cause'. This is only the dog mobile as both the other family vehicles are 2 seat coupes and at the price its not up for a hard life.

    The transmission is giving....

    18265 - Load Signal: Error Message from ECU

    Which looks like a reaction to the Engine fault.

    All intermittent and it goes pretty well most of the time. Traction and Engine MIL on.

    Ta
    #1
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  3. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Mar 24, 2012]
    is there a test on vag-com, like on the bosch kts, where you can carry out a running test of the advance/retard while looking at the actual values?

    and yes you can change the pump without disturbing the cambelt. but youll need to drop the front panel forward to get to the tensioner on the pump belt.
    #2
  4. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Mar 25, 2012]
    There's a timing function in VCDS so will look at that.
    Thanks for the info!
    #3
  5. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Mar 25, 2012]
    if memory serves while its ticking over the test will alternate the pump from full retard to full advance and back again. the actual values should tell you how far its advancing retarding etc. sumurt like from +8degrees to -14degrees. while its doing it listen to the engine the engine note should be very different from one to the other extreme.
    #4
  6. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Mar 25, 2012]
    Right this did not go well.
    Lots of lost comms and funny noises.
    Points to the ECU being intermittent I guess. First pass is to get the ECU checked over then...ah hum such is life.
    Going to be cheaper the the new mechatronic for the TT one hopes....
    #5
  7. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Mar 25, 2012]
    so it didnt work then? what did it do?
    #6
  8. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Mar 26, 2012]
    The TDI plug in showed some points in the middle area and lots in the retarded (my great word) zone.
    There was a message about no data and groups.
    Tried today and can't reproduce the error codes. The noises are 'odd' at tickover a metallic clanking then back to diesel sounds.
    Runs fine then error light and into limp mode (gutless) no smoke and get this goes much better in sport mode.
    Wondering if the ECU is the issue or both it and the pump still..... as it goes fine most of the time thinking ECU first...
    Just wondering on the whole pump out task.
    Will aim to strip the front this weekend and take a hard stare....
    #7
  9. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Mar 26, 2012]
    wierd. without seeing it i dunno. sounds very much like a pump fault.

    as this is your second car, have you thought about removing the pump and sending it off to one of these diesel pump refurbishing places. they can put it on a test bed run it and diagnose the fault off the car.

    do some googling and have a ring round mate.
    #8
  10. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Mar 27, 2012]
    Thanks again.

    This weekend will pull the ECU to and its off to ecutesting.com. Have a goor rep with the mechatronic community.
    If that fails then good time to look at the cambelt, water pump and thermostat as well as the injection pump unit.

    Nexty question will be on setting up the cam timing with homemade tools... :)
    #9
  11. ms1083
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    ms1083 Member

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    [Mar 30, 2012]
    Have you got a copy of ELSA? Its the audi workshop manual, you can buy it on e-bay. I am not quite sure what the problem is but it describes in detail with pictures how to adjust/tweak the injection pump timing so the results fall within the limits measured by VagCOM.
    #10
  12. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 31, 2012]
    I would leave the ECU alone if it starts and get the timing right first just to make sure ! Also it's better to get the pump fully refurbished- try dieselbob or pb asher. The pumps do wear internally so a EDC test/fix isn't gonna fix it !
    #11
  13. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Mar 31, 2012]
    Yup have ElsaWin acquired for the TT priceless aid to that beast. Timing is fine most of the time just occasional hiccup and the other modules showing ECU fault. Take the advice on the refurb pump but it still goes well 'most of the time' so will start there.
    Regrettably and despite the nice weather had to work abroad this week so not much done.
    ECU ready to come out and the big strip can start. If the ECU fails to fix then the rest of the unit comes out with the cambelt etc.
    Thanks for the help folks.
    Is a build thread appropriate for this forum?
    #12
  14. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Apr 3, 2012]
    #13
  15. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Apr 13, 2012]
    You Win!

    ECU is good...so looks like the pump!
    #14
  16. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 13, 2012]
    If you had it refurbished then the pump would get a brand new EDC as well !
    #15
  17. elan2s
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    elan2s Member

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    [Apr 20, 2012]
    Great posting on the other forum, amazing how bad some owners let their cars get. Not sure the car is a "Final Edition" though. Think they all had the RNS-E DVD based Sat Nav included as standard and different (and I think also 18" or even 19") wheels. Yours looks to be a highly specced (Symphony, Bose, Leather, Xenons) Sport version with the normal 17" 9 spoke Sport wheels.
    #16
  18. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Apr 22, 2012]
    Yup...Insurance company called it Final Edition its a high Spec late 2004.
    Would of had the pump out today but the viscous fan is siezed on....then it rained...
    [​IMG]
    #17
  19. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 22, 2012]
    You don't need to remove the front in order to get the vp44 pump off !
    #18
  20. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Apr 23, 2012]
    No but I am doing the belts, water pump and thermostat as well so its a lot easier. But to be frank doing it front on looks a right pig of a job.

    Oh and having a good ECU means I can save on that in refurbishing...however Diesel Bob was not happy about claims the ECU is OK so we will see what happens.... :) Its only money, blood sweat and tears. Had I been lucky it would of been a cheap fix but I wasn't ...

    Only a few bolts to go once the viscous fan is off.

    Any hints on cleaning the gunge out of that cross manifold section??
    #19
  21. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 23, 2012]
    Barbecue ?
    #20
  22. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Apr 24, 2012]
    Now that made me laugh!! ta!
    #21
  23. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 24, 2012]
    No seriously ! Take the intake flap off the manifold, soak the cast pipe into a bucket with diesel overnight then lit the barbecue. It works really well just don't let the flame get too big as the alloy can get deformed in the process and let it cool by itself not with water. Use new gaskets as well...
    #22
  24. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Apr 24, 2012]
    Thanks....man you are so into this s**t! Given you a mention on DW!
    #23
  25. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Apr 28, 2012]
    This for Amamss24

    The weather was so **** today I had a barbeque...

    [​IMG]
    #24
  26. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Apr 28, 2012]
    hahahahahaahhahahahahahah breath hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha!
    #25
  27. Turkster
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    Turkster Bro.Paul 2.5TDI Quattro Sport

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    [Apr 29, 2012]
    Do i presume that the heat turns the gunk into a liquid form and allows you to just pure it out ?
    #26
  28. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 29, 2012]
    No but with the help of the diesel it burns with a yellow flame so all the carbon scrubs off ! I help it with a plumber's blow torch as well, easy to get it into the holes...
    #27
  29. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [Apr 29, 2012]
    Gave it a push with the butane torch. At times it roared like a ram jet engine!!
    #28
  30. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [May 6, 2012]
    Reasons to change cambelts No 1

    You might find something else!!

    [​IMG]
    #29
  31. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    Feedback from Diesel Bob...

    Spent a slice of the weekend going over your pump.

    The main issue is a mechanical fault that's been caused by water in the fuel.

    There's a build up of rust in the bottom of the pump which has caused total seizure of the advance piston.Spent a slice of the weekend going over your pump.


    So new filter on the parts list!!
    #30
  32. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    That's a lucky save ! Done a cambelt on sunday for a forum member, the viscous fan was thread locked and could not be taken off and the thermostat was stuck open. Owner decided to replace all belts at the same time as the thermostat even though he had receipts of the cambelt being replaced 1 year before. On inspection, the garage only changed the belt and left the old tensioners/rollers- made in 2004 !
    #31
  33. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [May 9, 2012]
    Sounds like the same garage as did this one!!

    Loving working on the A6.....and looking forward to the rebuild!!
    #32
  34. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [May 11, 2012]
    noticed the cam timing question in the other thread you started. have you figured it out?
    #33
  35. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [May 12, 2012]
    Nope just set the cam tools with the belt on and found what I think in the TDC on the flywheel.
    Just ahead the flywheel moves one way only just behind same. Then a point where the tool wont fit. Then a point where the tool goes someway in and the flywheel locks...
    Going to lift the rocker cover when it goes back together just in case there is a mark that I cant see through the oil filler.
    500watts of halogen say there's no marks like those suggested in ElsaWin or the Gates belt fitting guide.
    #34
  36. TYphoon GB
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    TYphoon GB Member

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    [May 18, 2012]
    So the pump is due next week (had I taken your good advise would of been 3 weeks ago).

    Its a full refurb with a new ECU to keep the warranty (made sense).

    Problem its not coded!

    Now I have Vag Com but not the SKC (pin code).

    Audi very unhelpful as in bring it in and we will do it.....I know they have to eat but I dont have a trailer and etc etc......doesn't help the log book is still in transit for the personal reg transfer.

    So any simple route to extract the pin code from the main ECU?

    or a recommendation in the Winchester area for someone who can?
    #35

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