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A4 S4 03 Plate - Possible new owner with modification questions...

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by scoose, Jan 10, 2009.

  1. scoose
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    scoose New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2009]
    Hi all,

    New member here......great site ! :thumbsup:
    On the verge of moving to an A4 S4 on an 03 or 53 Plate...
    First I hope this is right section for some tips...

    Ok I was wondering the best Exhaust and modification mods available....I am hoping to up the power and was wondering on the options,results and costs etc....

    I was going to buy another M3 E46 SMG II however I have looked at a couple of S4`s and I am converted.....:wub:

    I have my eye on a particular 03 plate with 39000 miles and Full Audi verified History :applaus:

    I look forward to any advice anyone may have :)

    Thanks Dan :s4addict:
    #1
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  3. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2009]
    Is money a problem? is my 1st question before commenting as a previous owner of an s4 b6 avant
    #2
  4. scoose
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    scoose New Member

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    [Jan 10, 2009]
    Thanks for the reply.....


    Is`nt money always a problem ? :lmfao:

    Seriously within reason I am willing to spend.......or are you going to tell me to forget S4 and go RS4 or RS6 :ohmy:

    To be honest I was just curious as I spent a shed load on my Evo 8 to get 420 Bhp and 407 Ft/Lb

    And I know if I get an M3 Thorney will cost a fortune for stage 2.
    I am if honest going to want exhaust first to bring that V8 sound to life as I imagine the standard exhaust is fairly restrictive and quiet

    Dan
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  5. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 11, 2009]
    I'll post some more comments & maybe a link tomorrow, but difference is the evo is turbo charged & the s4 v8 is natural, I had an s3 remapped & the s4 at same time, lets just say the turbo charged remapped s3 was alot more fun & my s4 that was also remapped did get pissed on by an s3 & a TT, the evo would leave it standing every single day

    There was a fairly irrate thread few momths back where I got told of, but I was being honest & actually factual considering I actually owned 1 for 2 years, update later fella, but think if used to evo power the s4 will be let down, engine is way to heavy & tbh slow, lots of v8 noise but not alot of power if I'm honest no matter what exhaust you have

    Money comment was purely cause of the 16-20mpg is shocking, the fuel gauge goes down quicker than jordans pants, when she wears them, lmao
    #4
  6. scoose
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    scoose New Member

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    [Jan 11, 2009]
    The Evo drank V-Power like water ...
    And my current ride is a 4.4 Range Rover L322 Vogue

    Its my second car and mpg is not an issue, and to be honest I am not really a speed freak, I never used Evo power and it was fairly pointless having it, but I just liked to know it had been done if that makes any sense , which I am sure it does not..

    I was even considering a newer A4 s-line or A6 s-line diesel :ohmy:

    Will check your links etc tomorrow

    cheers

    Dan :thumbsup:
    #5
  7. Tendaimwari
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    Tendaimwari Member

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    [Jan 12, 2009]
    The TT and S3 must have been stage 2 to have beaten the S4. I have also owned both a mapped S3 and a B6 S4 at the same time, S4 was standard, and although the S3 "felt" quicker the simple fact was that the S4 was the Daddy. The V8 needs to be driven to fully appreciate its qualities. If it is caught in the wrong gear then it can get caught out by a lot of cars but once in its sweet spot, +3500rpm, it really motors.

    WRT MPG. Driven hard and it will see the figures posted by NHN. However, when driven conservatively it can see 26mpg.
    #6
  8. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 12, 2009]
    Tuning NA motors is always expensive compared with turbo motors, however tuning the 4.2 V8 in an S4 should in theory be cheaper in terms of BHP/£ than the M3 motor.

    This is because the higher the BHP/Litre value climbs the harder it is to get power from an N/A engine. The M3 is already in a very high state of tune (over 100bhp/litre) whereas the V8 is only making about 80bhp/litre. Not saying it will be cheap. But to add 50hp to the S4 motor should cost less than adding 50hp to the M3 motor.

    If it was my car, i'd be seriously considering turbocharging as an option tbh. As if your going into the money-is-no-object world of NA tuning, then it seems to me a couple of small blowers running 5-8psi would give you a MUCH bigger gain for the money spent, while keeping (and quite likely even improving) the engines tractability, something you will certainly lose with a highly strung NA motor and is quite evident when you drive an M3. Another plus is the manifolds etc are already available from the RS6, although it might be worth looking into fitting a complete RS6 motor...
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  9. NHN
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    [Jan 12, 2009]
    26mpg, dream on, you would never realistically get that in the S4 B6, no way, best I would see is 22 on long run

    & it doesnt matter what gear you're in, fact is the engine is so heavy thats why it can get thumped by say an S3 with a map, mine wasnt stage 2 & that was definitely nippy where as I felt the S4 lacked the extra kick you'd expect, definitely should of been turbo charged as per the previous & now the new

    Afterall this, I have always said the S4 was a stunning car interms of driveability, it was very nice overall but it lacked something, but if money isnt the issue & you want a V8 then guess you couldnt do much better tbh, lovely inside & out, but I'd get the B7 now tbh as it just has a nicer exterior
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  10. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 12, 2009]
    yer i'd agree with the fuel economy expectations there, MPG is a function of the engines efficiency and the vehicles weight.

    A V8 will be generally less efficient than a V6 simply due to more rotational mass and more heat loss thru larger cylinder surface area, so if we compare it to a B5 S4 engine, it will be less efficient, especially when the turbos act to scavenge some of the energy lost down the exhaust.

    Add to that the fact that the B6 is heavier, and we should find the B6 does worse MPG than an B5. B5 only does mid 20's on a run at best... so i'd think 22-24mpg would be about the best your going to manage.
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  11. Tendaimwari
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    Tendaimwari Member

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    [Jan 12, 2009]
    No dreaming required NHN. 26mpg can and has been achieved in my car. Obviously you have a problem controlling your right foot for you not to see more than 22mpg. Is this why you now own a diesel? FFS I even achieve 22mpg on my short commute to work.

    Aragon: Fuel consumntion is also a function of how you drive and conditions. Not only weight, mass, intertia etc. The Wifes A2 can achieve 55mpg but then again only 30mpg depending upon driving style, conditions.

    You obviously did not read what I wrote NHN. I too have owned both at the same and had initial similar worries about the S4's performance so I did several runs side by side, friend drove the S3, and the S4 was the victor. So I held onto the S4. A S3 mapped will not "thump" a S4. It will run it close but at the end of the day the S4 will come out victorious. The biggest downside for the S3 is its narrow power band. The power starts dropping of around 5500rpm. The torque starts falling off sooner than that. The N/A S4 is still in its stride at 5500rpm with the torque not dropping due to its lineararity.
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  12. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 12, 2009]
    Thankyou, someone with some sense of engine weight & yeah be lucky to get anywhere near 24 if the V8 is driven as it should be, lol, I was lucky to get on the motorway going down say the M40

    To add I couldnt find hardly any suspension upgrades for the S4 mainly because of the weight, its a damn heavy machine which bloats it on speed thus slower than you expect
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  13. Tendaimwari
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    Tendaimwari Member

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    [Jan 12, 2009]
    No suspension upgrades? Tish K&W and H&R both do various coilover packages. The RS4 rear anti roll bar is an even cheaper suspension upgrade. The biggest problem with the S4 is finding alternative brake upgrades other than RS4 or Brembos.
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  14. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 12, 2009]
    As a comparison, our 1.8T FWD B5 (which is a good 3-400kgs lighter than a B6 S4, approx 30% lighter) with the missus driving (she has quite a light foot) on our 25 mile commute, most of which is motorway, although there are a few snarly bits, the car averages 30-31mpg.

    And thats also with 4 cylinders less rotational mass, and a turbo helping out too...

    I've also never seen more than about 32mpg average on a long motorway drive. So unless you do all your mileage at 55mph constant on a motorway i simply cannot see how you can claim such a high figure....
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  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 12, 2009]
    Re the brakes: are you saying that you've actually managed to fade the brakes on your S4? I suspect that with good pads and fluid they should really be pretty awesome.

    Bigger disks != better stopping, unless your managing to overheat the existing components.
    #14
  16. Tendaimwari
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    Tendaimwari Member

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    [Jan 13, 2009]
    No re-read my post. I never said that I have managed to bring on brake fade. The standard brakes on the S4 are very good. Much better than the M3 stoppers. Just pointing out that contrary to NHN claims that off the all possible upgrades available for the S4 brakes are the most difficult, limited options, and this area is much harder than the suspension which NHN tried to suggest. Even different discs to OEM are hard, and expensive, to come by in the UK. Although more options are available from the USA.

    On the mpg front. I have achieved 26mpg. Whether or not you believe me is up to you. It will change the that fact my car has seen such figures. It has more to do with driving style, driv-ing conditions than mass, inertia etc. The mpg on your 1.8T is not particularly impressive TBH. I used to regularly see 30mpg in the S3 when I commuted to Wolverhampton. How-ever, with heavy traffic that would go down to mid/low 20’s. Again that had nothing to do with rotational mass, torque, inertia etc but traffic or whether or not I was in a rush.

    BTW the S4 is about 20% heavier not 30% heavier than your 1.8T

    Anyway back on topic. They are well built cars. With a few known problems, aux rads, start up rattle, oil consumption. The start up rattle is not a big issue just a little disconcerting at first if your not aware of its causes. (Low oil pressure on the chain tensioner). This soon goes away after oil pressure rises).

    Mine has not suffered with any of the aforementioned problems in the cars lifetime, 2003. Performance wise there are no complaints from me or the majority of S4 owners on this fo-rum. It is not the most economical but if driven conservatively it can yield a decent return. And before anyone starts to jump up and down I have never argued against this fact. Just pointed out that reasonable consumption is achievable.
    #15
  17. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2009]
    Bloody site, everytime I went to reply yesterday damn database crashed & they are using a new server/hosts!!!!!!
    #16
  18. Just Plain Old
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    Just Plain Old Active Member

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    [Jan 13, 2009]
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  19. MattS3
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    MattS3 Member

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    [Jan 13, 2009]
    Scoose - I have a spreadsheet with the dyno figs from my mapped S3 (revo) compared to my standard S4 with just milltek catback if you'd like to see it in terms of power delivery?

    PM and i'll pass it to you. (dont think I can upload it easily here)
    #18
  20. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 16, 2009]
    I wish i could get near 26mpg. On my commute to work i get 18mpg approx, its about 3 miles dual carriage way with a 50mph limit which i stick to and the rest is stop start traffic. I don't have a heavy right foot, and the best i have ever managed is 20.1 but that involved coasting on the downhills and driving like Miss Daisy the rest of the time.

    Best I can manage on a motorway run up the M3 to Heathrow is 21 absolute max and thats staying within the speed limit.

    In all honesty, IMHO, if your getting 26mpg you must not realise that the point in having 300+ bhp is to make the most of it, but each to their own.

    Everytime I fill up, I look back on the fun that I have had for the last £60 or 225 miles, and smile. Thats what its all about.
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  21. dantheman
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    dantheman Member

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    [Jan 16, 2009]
    Correct Mr S4cab.....

    I get 20 to 25 mpg out of mine driving it 'normally', had a Volvo V40 T4 before and got 28 being good to it.....

    Didn't buy it if I was worrying about economy anyway, bought it for the noise and the smile it puts on my face every time I turn the key....

    Couldn't care less if tuned S3 is faster/slower, fact is the S4 is an awsome car however you look at it. Will second hand values at what they are you cant go far wrong...

    DTM:blackrs4::kissmyrings:
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  22. Tendaimwari
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    Tendaimwari Member

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    [Jan 16, 2009]
    I do wish people would read and think pragmatically before they respond. James you seem to making the same simple mistake as NHN, aragorn. In that you read that I have SEEN 26mpg and straight away you assume that I always achieve 26mpg. Dantheman has also stated he has SEEN 25mpg. 26mpg is not a millions miles from 25mpg is it?

    I live in Germany so I have more than enough "legal" oppportuities to appreciate the power to its limit. So don't question my driving style or the ability to "realise" the point of having +300bhp on tap.
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  23. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 16, 2009]
    Tendaimwari - Lets just get this straight - i'm not getting at you. Thats not why i'm here. I cant be arsed to have an argument with you, and I'm glad you get to appreciate your car - after all - thats what they are for. I am merely trying to offer some factual and realistic advice to a possible new :s4addict:owner.

    In terms of your comment (and i quote) "I have achieved 26mpg", this to me suggests that you have undertaken a journey and managed 26mpg. For me, this is unacheivable. Simple as that.

    If this is not the case and we are working on what you have seen at any one point in time, I have seen 999mpg but that is down a hill with my foot off the pedal and coasting.......

    But then i'm just being facetious :yes:
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  24. Tendaimwari
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    Tendaimwari Member

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    [Jan 16, 2009]
    James. I too am trying to offer a new potential owner some realistic and factual advice. The 26mpg was achieved on a 75 mile trip. I regularly see 24mpg on the same journey. This does include some bahn blasts too. So not pure Miss Daisy driving.

    And not your not being faecestious :) Anyway haver a good weekend :beerchug:
    #23
  25. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 16, 2009]
    And you my friend. :salute:

    Hope you get to enjoy the autobahns while i stick to 70mph!! Not that I'm jealous or anything......... :shutup2:
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  26. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 16, 2009]
    Give the "patronising" a rest, you wanna believe you're getting that then go for it, in the real world though its unrealistic using "AVERAGE READINGS" not quick browse at the DIS, but do me a favour to prove a point to us both I guess right or wrong, fill the tank up, zero the speedo & then drive until empty & not until the warning but you know how far you can go with your car until its close to vapour, then report back the number of miles achieved & this is driving as you do with 26mpg, then can calculate average MPG based on a tank of what 55 litres with uk 4.54 litres a gallon, hey my minds open but not to myths

    Last time I did this with an S4 owner, they before I asked stated there mpg & the miles on a full tank with driving this way with the so called mpg & it worked out at 19-20 IIRC, not I think 24, thus didnt reply to me after that, funny that

    I'd be surprised if your average is near 26, maybe coasting is your secret, lol

    [​IMG]
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  27. MattS3
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    MattS3 Member

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    [Jan 16, 2009]
    I've had 24-25 on a run, and pretty regularly, but in reality day to day I get 16mpg on my daily 10 mile commute, 5 miles each way (and thats reading from the DIS), and most other journeys pan out at an average of 20mpg.

    Do your sums on 20mpg and you wont be too dissapointed I reckon.
    #26
  28. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 16, 2009]
    My car and driving style gives the same as Matts figures. Spot on the same as my best guesses. We both must have size 8's!!
    #27
  29. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 16, 2009]
    lol, yeah realistically on a full tank which is what we really should base it on not a 75 mile trip with miss daisy, lol, sorry had to, anyway you would get between 18-20, its a fact & I had mine for 2 years so not as if it was a dealer day test drive is it, I more often than not used to look down & see 16 which was worrying even if it wasnt my money

    Maybe germany's fuel is more economic, but not that much better

    Do you have one of these on your fuel lines, lol

    [​IMG]
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  30. Tendaimwari
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    Tendaimwari Member

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    I do not have to justify anything to you or anyone else. I do not have ot lie ot prove a point. I can sleep easy at knowing what my S4 can and cannot do.

    Have a nice day :rolleyes:
    #29
  31. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    Just checked my average MPG since i bought the car 10 months ago. I zero the #2 trip computer and over the 5k miles I have driven, I have averaged.......

    16.8mpg........
    :fart::crying::sorry::shutup2::Flush::keule:
    #30
  32. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    huh huuuumm cough cough sorry have a bad cold/flu, lol

    funny that huh, lol
    #31
  33. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    I knew it was coming matey - i love my car and drive it accordingly!
    #32
  34. NHN
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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    Well I was just being factual not mr know it all, but glad you've proved it with some proper data fella, thanks, helps others considering buying the car as its very juicy huh, but nice to drive, but also for me needed more of a kick, but still a bloody nice car & I do miss it, but I dont miss the fuel costs, lol, I love my derv now & considering getting a 3.0 tdi tip a4 avant b7 & doing it up a tad with some power upgrades as it can go 300+ & as its turbo charged I suspect it'll have some fun with an S4 dont you think given I know how that drove, I think it would be a close call tbh

    Money i save on fuel costs would pay for that & still get what 30-40mpg think they do

    Still be intrigued to know what his full tank readings are on his stated 26mpg claims, just interested thats all
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  35. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    No you dont have to justify anything, but then again if you're making claims about your car & dont backup your claims with some realistic factual data as per James & others like myself, then you're making would be buyers think something thats clearly not true, its a car forum to help & advise others & as the thread title is about a would be owner then dont you think it should be a factual as possible for them before they buy the car, so they're aware of the pitfulls of the car, just goes towards helping everyone on the forum who wonder about these things, helps us all overall, I know its helped me alot with facts rather than fiction

    & yeah thanks I've had a wonderful day
    #34
  36. Tendaimwari
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    Tendaimwari Member

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    26mpg for a full tank of fuel is not possible you know that I know that. But then again I have never claimed a full tank wil give such comsumption. I have said that it is not all doom and gloom. I have witnessed 26mpg. dantheman has witnessed 24-25mpg as has MattS3 (24, 25, 26mpg not a lot in it really). I will also add that if you cannot afford the running costs look elsewhere like say an A3 2.0tdi or similar. It will give better fuel consumption and that is about it. But then again those who are looking to own a S4 the cost of fuel is not an issue.

    The advice I offer potential buyers is accurate based on ongoing ownership. i.e. excellent build quality, faster than a mapped S3, TT etc, cheap to expensive mods available, plenty of suspension mods, limited brake mods. There are a few known problems, aux rads, start up rattle and sometimes high oil consumption. Did I miss anything?
    #35
  37. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    lol, this is funny, looks like your doing some of this to me:

    [​IMG]

    shows you dont read to well or fully & no you are claiming realistically it will do 26mpg which in itself is ridiculous & complete **** & all we need to prove this is James on 5k miles average mpg which was 16.8, the average is what its always based on always not a quick spirt, but of course you already knew that right????

    16-20mpg is the realistic figures, so ragging it you'd expect more like 16-17 but combined I'd say nearer to 20, those are real figures & thats what prospective buyers need to know

    & they witnessed these readings for how long exactly, the real time mpg is what matters not for a little joyride, be factual not your little 75 mile trip, thats what matters full stop

    & if you read it properly you would see Matt said & I quote "Do your sums on 20mpg and you wont be too dissapointed I reckon" & Dan said 20-25 but realistically if he was to work out as I asked you a full tank whats the average of that, more like 20 I'd say or less, so this is what I said from the get go, this is what you realistically expect from the S4 not your drop head down few second glare at DIS reading

    This is taken from a review of the car which says it all interms of overall(namely average) which I also take with pinch of salt as usually less than what audi state on all what 7 VAG cars I've owned:

    "Audi quote an overall figure of 21.1mpg, but if you use that throttle pedal anywhere like how it was intended to be used, expect that figure to head south pretty quickly."

    Startup rattle is not a fault/issue anyway, its the hydraulic chain tensioner taking the slack out of the chain on startup, also high oil consumption is also not a fault/known problem, its part of the engine, its a v8 4.2 for christs sake, it will burn alot more oil of than a 2.0 tdi as you so nicely put it, have you lifted your bonnet & seen how big that beast is, do you think it wouldnt burn any of, audi estimate about 1 litre per 1000 miles on that engine is actually a fair amount & can go as far as 1 litre for 5k, thats a fact & I can say yes it did pretty much close to that given the oil I stuck in it,

    its normal on these cars some of these things, stop spirting BS to would be buyers & actually quote facts, the buyers think oh damn has all these issues but I get amazing economy, come back to the real world or just dont comment at all cause you're just confusing buyers who want real time facts not speculation
    #36
  38. MattS3
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    MattS3 Member

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    Richard Nash cars in Norwich are currently quoting on one of their adverts for a 2004 S4 cabriolet "28mpg" in the corner of the picture of it!!


    Excellent way to sell a car I reckon ;)
    #37
  39. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    lol, hey but its as some have said really, if you're looking to buy that car I think the mpg is the last thing probably huh Matt, but least the info's on here for all to see if they need to check, 28mpg, I could only dreammmmmmmmmmmmm of those figures

    Thats alot of coasting & I assume they mean down the A11 not up it, lol

    Thats weird website doesnt have any S4, oh well some mug bought it then, lol
    #38
  40. Just Plain Old
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    Just Plain Old Active Member

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    Not wishing to get involved in the 'debate', but my current average is 19.2....

    Lowest I've ever 'averaged' is about 7.6!
    #39
  41. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 19, 2009]
    7.6 blooooooddddyyyyy hell, what you been ragging it on, or was it a steep hill, like vertical, lol
    #40

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