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A4 Cab 2.5v6 TDI fresh from remap at VAGCHECK.com

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by Billyboy200uk, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. Billyboy200uk

    Billyboy200uk New Member

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    Hi guys, first post on here after recently joining the site since the purchase of my A4 Cab. Firstly, ABSOLUTELY LOVING THE CAR!!!
    Anyway, just back from Frimley, where I have spent most of the day getting a custom remap from Morgan (VAGCHECK.com), and thought I would pass on my comments on the experience.

    Primary reason for the remap, is that I commute 15k per year, mostly fast dual carriageway/ motorways. The fact that this heavy car will also gain an extra 30-35bhp, and 45 foot Lbs of torque, was another consideration.

    Met at Morgan's at the agreed time, was met with a nice cup of home made tea (thanks Morgan's mum :), indeed a plentiful supply was provided at regular intervals throughout my time there.

    Next it was diagnostic check to ensure no problems prior to the remap, followed by backing up the stock settings. This was followed by a real time diagnostic check where Morgan and his laptop sat in the pasenger seat whilst i carried out some runs down a local dual carriageway for baseline purposes? Once back at Morgan's, he downloaded my stock ECU maps, and these were then sent via email to his partner, who started to customise the settings.

    Due to the complexity, and the additional fact that my Cab has the multitronic box, meant that it was a good hour and half before the revised settings arrived back.
    Once flashed, more runs were carried out down the same road, what a difference!! For comparison, with the car in 4th gear on stock settings, it took 29 seconds with 100% throttle to reach the limiter. With the revised settings, that figure was reduced to 17 seconds!!
    Back to base once again, where a final diagnostic check was made, and I was on my way back home.

    The best part was yet to come. Travelling up in the morning, I had reset the DIS and the car averaged 40.5 mpg for the journey. Leaving Morgan's I reset the DIS, kept the speed the same, road conditions were the same both ways, and the car averaged 47.3 mpg on the return. My rough calculation means an increase of around 12-14% which came as a real surprise, as I thought it would be only around 3-4 mpg increase.

    So in conclusion, I can highly recommend Morgan at VAGCHECk.com and hope you guys reading this, have found it helpful.

    Once back, the revised settings were flashed into the ECU
     
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  3. adamss24

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    Take the DIS readings with a pinch of salt, it needs calibrating now...it's a the first law of thermodynamics: what goes in must go out so you wont get more power without spending more energy ! The laws of Physics cannot be bent YET !
     
  4. Billyboy200uk

    Billyboy200uk New Member

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    I am aware of the failings of DIS, had similar device on my Volvo S60, but I brimmed the tank, emptied, then filled agin and used normal calculations to work out average mpg. Actually, the DIS was accurate to within 1.5 mpg. As for your second point which I have interpreted as meaning that you don't believe the benefits of a remap, then maybe you should do some research and see for yourself ??
     
  5. adamss24

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    Actually i do believe in the effects of a remap it's just i don't buy into the economy part of it, you need to drive off boost to get better fuel economy, drive it as before or harder and it will drink more- FACT ! Granted that it will use less fuel to keep the momentum whilst on top gear but to get an extra 10Mpg is a bit over the top. Anyway, brim the tank then see how many miles you can drive till light goes on and report back... Cheers !
     
  6. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Member

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    I see that the OP has a Multitronic box - how do they cope with the extra power / torque?
     
  7. Billyboy200uk

    Billyboy200uk New Member

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    Adamss24 I get the point you are making and of course I agree that fuel economy will suffer if you drive it harder than before given the extra boost etc...however, as I was driving it economically to check the mpg benefit, then with less throttle needed to accelerate and maintain momentum, then it is also obvious that you will need less fuel, less right foot/ less fuel...FACT. However will post again on here once I have gone through this next tank of fuel.
    As for running the remap with the multitronic box, it shouldnt be a problem as they all had the mandatory 7 plate Clutch upgrade from the the original 6.
     
  8. yendall24

    yendall24 Member

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    i had my 1.9 tdi remapped by angel tuning the first thing i noticed was i could hang on to higher gears longer therefore reducing the rpm needed . and reduced rpm means reduced fuel usage . but apart from that its been the best 300 quid i have spent on it . it just makes it a much better car to drive in all situation . well in my humble oppinion
     
  9. adamss24

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    I'll be very carefull with high torque remaps on the v6 tdi, either with the 7 plate clutch or not. Friend of mine bought a multitronic/CVT audi a6 1.9 Tdi with the AWX engine code (285 Nm) at X-mas and his box gone wrong 3 times. He had enough of it and last month we fitted a 5 speed manual gearbox to it. That was with a stock 1.9 tdi, no remaps here ! I suggest you change oil in the gearbox every 20k if you want it to last ! Even then i am not shure it's going to last ! First time the dual mass flywheel started making noise, replaced that then the ECU started playing up. We repaired the ECU, replaced the oil with genuine oil from dealer then the box started playing again. He took it to another specialist and the chain/belt inside broke due to a blocked valve and the oil (only had a few hundred miles) gone black again... New genuine clutch, DMF and 5 speed gearbox and he's a happy chap now. Hope i made my point !
     
  10. Az

    Az Hard slammed!

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    Sounds to me like he was just a very unlucky person. First I've heard of anyone having trouble like that so I'd put it down to being very unfortunate. I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's likely the same thing is going to happen to everyone else. It's like any car can have problems, for instance I owned an e46 m3 with the SMG2 gearbox in it before the audi, some people experience problem with the SMG but I didn't what so ever, and it had quite a few prolonged 'enthusiastic' driving sessions shall we say.
     
  11. adamss24

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    CVT boxes are ticking time bombs...If i'll ever buy a auto gearbox it will be a conventional one with a torque convertor, nothing else !
     
  12. BahnStormer77

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    I'd be a little wary driving too enthusiastically with a remapped CVT box: 6 plate CVT's were replaced for anything with more than about 250lb/ft, 7 plates now work on the 3 litre TDI's, so about 300lb/ft, but I'm guessing those are larger diameter?? 2.5 TDI will have been replaced although the single intercooler FWD is still only about 250lb/ft, I'm guessing a remapped one will be pushing 300-330lb/ft? (I've seen remapped 1.9TDI's hitting >300lb/ft) I fully buy into the fact that a remap will get an improvement in economy, especially on TDI's: remaps that allow cars to rev higher are clearly not the way to get better economy... but turbo-charged cars that can improve the low-rev boost will get more low-down torque and although this is normally removed to protect the clutch from careless drivers, you will be able to change up sooner and hang onto higher gears for longer, so you will definitely get better economy with a mild remap. you There should be an emphasis on needing careful driving and a mild remap and a CVT remover the ability to declutch carefully.
     
  13. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Member

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    I thought all 3.0TDI models are quattro and they have a tip 'box.
     
  14. Billyboy200uk

    Billyboy200uk New Member

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    Appreciate the comments made to my thread, with regards to the CVT box, my car has just turned 43k, and the ECU was replaced by the previous owner at 40k, together with fresh gearbox oil. As a previous poster mentioned, people can be unlucky with any mechanical component. I had the remap primarily for the increased fuel economy, and as it was a full custom map, the guys who undertook the remap were sympathetic to the fact that I wasn't interested in "ragging" the car, I was more interested in releasing some more of the power that is available with all modern engines. Some people do not realise that car manufacturers always hold back at least 30% engine capability, the reasons for this being two fold. Firstly, their cars are sold worldwide, including some parts with poor fuel, atmospheric conditions, poor servicing, roads etc, secondly how many times do you see 2-3 years down the line, your model car having a facelift and magically now having more power VW PD engine prime example, 110bhp, 130, 150, etc, and normally with no other uprated parts!! and how does this happen? In the main due to remapping, only this time, carried out by the manufacturer, rather than us owners using a tuning company. And finally thirdly, ok I know I said two fold, but just thought of this :) they all have emission tests to pass, so they adjust them down at the points in the rev range whe these checks are carried out. Us owners are not obliged to pass these tests that's why if you look on a graph, a remapped car will have a nice linear trajectory rather than regular plateaus at certain rev ranges.
     
  15. BahnStormer77

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    Seeker - since there are no B6 3.0TDI's, I wasn't referring to A4's - my neighbour has the 2011 A6 with a 3.0TDI FWD, multitronic... engine has been detuned to to only produce 201bhp, but only kicks out 133g/km. BillyBoy - just make sure the car has had the clutch replacement, it'll be on Audi's books: all 2.5TDI's should have been recalled. Although engines are detuned for emissions, they're also done to protect components (clutches and gearboxes) while the car is under warranty - most of the extra performance (acceleration and economy) is gained by releasing the low-end torque that can damage a gearbox if the clutch isn't allowed to engage fully before that extra torque is applied. The argument for different 1.9PD engines doesn't stand: yes, the higher spec TDI's can achieve the same as later revisions of the engine (e.g. 150bhp of the Mk IV Golf GT TD), which I've seen from a 105PS Polo, remap only!... But the question is if the rest of the components are designed for that extra power: the extra intercoolers and larger diameter clutches for example, keep the car running reliably (that Polo with 10k miles on the clock, burnt out it's clutch in less than 10 miles).... and that was a manual, being driven carefully - the clutch just slipped in 4th and 5th as soon as he touched the accellerator... and 3rd.... then 2nd.... and I think 1st too by the end of it.
     
    #14 BahnStormer77, Jul 23, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  16. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Member

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    I was thinking A6 but the previous model. I didn't realise they now do a FWD only 3.0TDI. I think I'll pass. ;-)
     
  17. adamss24

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    Vag group tune the car in a different way:turbo, pistons, rods, injectors, tune,etc. It's not just a remap to get the power- up, they have to allow for reliability as well so the car can make-it 10 years down the line !
     
  18. donsajid

    donsajid Member

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    adamss, would you be able to do a manual conversion to a fwd 2.5 tdi? i ask because I have been a patient of the multichronic disease in the past and if it were to happen again, i would be damned before I paid to get it fixed again..
     
  19. adamss24

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    Yes mate, no problem. You will need quite a few things, best is to buy a donor car, get all the necessary stuff then if you have the space and time, break the car for bits and sell the shell for scrap as i did. I bought a crashed w reg passat tdi estate, i sold the gearbox/driveshafts/pedals/shifter/slave cyl/clutch/DMF then took the car to weigh-in and kept the engine for a project of mine. Budget a min. of £1000 for the swap wich makes buying the whole car much more appealing. I wish you asked a few months ago, had a FD 01E gearbox in my van for a few years, sold it for £150. I still have the clutch/flywheel to go with it...
     
  20. BahnStormer77

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    It's a pure tax-dodge for people who pay company car tax and want a 200+bhp V6... not really on the spec-list for the enthusiasts!
     
  21. donsajid

    donsajid Member

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    Hey adam, thanks for that. I don't need one at the moment as the refurbished box seems to holding up pretty well at the moment, but like I said, if I did ever get problems with it again, I will definitely be looking to get a conversion done to a manual box.
     
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  23. Billyboy200uk

    Billyboy200uk New Member

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    Thanks for the input Lostbok, yes my car has definitely had the 7 plate upgrade, and I neve rag my cars anyway, so I am sure the gearbox will not get strained too much. With regards to the PD point I raised, I agree that other component upgrades would have been updated from the first PD, however I would be surprised if the immediate step up, ie 115-130, or 130-150 would have had many other components updated?
     
  24. BahnStormer77

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    115 to 130 bhp is significantly different: I'm pretty sure that is single intercooler versus double and also a larger diameter clutch, I think 130-150bhp is a different spec turbo, but not sure about that one, I ducked out of Golfs pre-Mk4.

    Agreed: 7 plate upgrade and resisting the urge to run any traffic light grand prix and you'll probably be fine.
     
  25. adamss24

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    115 PD tdi is just a reinforced AFN lump just with a different head on, base engine is the same down to the turbo. The rods/pistons are the same. The pd 130 has stronger crank, stronger rods, better designed pistons, lowered comp. and different cam, different injectors, different turbo, single side mounted intercooler, 3 bar MAP sensor, different ECU/map, different intake, lift pump and so on. PD 150 gets stronger rods, stronger pistons, high tensile head bolts, different turbo, FMIC and a few more bits and bobs. They are similar but soo different but getting a pd 130 and swapping ARL 150 Bhp injectors will put-it to similar spec as the 150 PD lump. As i said, watch the multichronic box, they tend to go even on standard engines, let alone mapped ones.
     
  26. BahnStormer77

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    nice one adams... figured it was only a matter of time before you waded in with the FULL details: certainly dispells any confusion about Audi just supplying an identical engine with a different map!!

    So base lump is the same, just everything else is different :) A bit like the 1.8 20V.... everything from a non-turbo 140bhp to a 225bhp twin intercooler turbo for OEM versions and 370bhp once you tweak the rest of the hardware (courtesy of MTM).
     
  27. Billyboy200uk

    Billyboy200uk New Member

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    LOL...ok guess that puts me fully in my place :)
     
  28. Billyboy200uk

    Billyboy200uk New Member

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    Ok...have to admit, got the Engine Management yellow light on at the weekend. Fault code reads 19559 P3103 - Motor for sporadics, intake flap- V157s faulty
    Seeing as there seems to be some VERY knowledgeable VAG guys on here, can anyone tell me what that problem means. The guy who ran the diagnostic said his machine was telling him it was the Manifold air intake actuator, the above description was from my friendly mechanic with his more advanced diagnostic kit. He spoke to the local main stealer who appeared to not be the sharpest tool in the box, and wasnt sure what part it referred to, but quoted £286.52 inc VAT for a replacement unit. I am assuming that the intake flap is controlled electronically by the actuator, and that you have to replace the whole unit, hence the price?? Also, as you cannot clear the fault, it would indicate that it is an electrical fault??
    Any advice/help would be gratefully received.

    PS...Guess i have to ask the question, is the remap to blame?, although my mechanic reckoned that it would have faulted straight away after the remap if that had been the case, when infact i had done well over 100 miles since the remap. If it turns out the remap was to blame, then i would go back and have the stock map flashed back on again.

    Cheers in advance guys
     
  29. BahnStormer77

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    that'll be for admas24 then... I just recycle the same gunk again and again...
     
  30. Billyboy200uk

    Billyboy200uk New Member

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    Ok guys, update on the Engine Management Light. Seems it was the actuator/intake flap v157 at fault, but NOT due to the remap. The flap was sticking, which I believe is quite a common fault. Part was replaced, fault cleared. Car was still under warranty, so didn't have to cough up the £282.60 for the part alone. Apparently, same part on the A3 is £480 !!!!

    Anyway all good to go now, and no nasty lights on the dash.
     

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