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A4 2.5 tdi quattro sleeper !!!

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by adamss24, Apr 4, 2010.

  1. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 4, 2010]
    Hi chaps, about time i introduce myself and one of me motors...'98 a4 v6 tdi quattro sport with a few tweeaks ! massaged AKE 180Bhp engine, Garrett GT2559V turbocharger, bigger nozzles, bigger intercoolers, PSI Motorsport chip (don't like "generic" remaps as they dont deliver !) and a few more bits and bobs. Car is still an on-going project but coming along nicely. I am running full rs4 suspenssion on Eibach springs, 4 pot calipers up front and 2 piece discs, rear b5 rs4 312mm brakes, Eibach front ARB, quattro GMBH rear ARM, rs2 rear metal drop links, rs4 diff and subframe, font s4 track rod ends, and heavy duty suspenssion arms. A rear s4 bumper is getting prepped for spraying...
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  3. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 4, 2010]
    It certainly is a sleeper no-one would guess what power and handling it has,impressive.
    #2
  4. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 4, 2010]
    I understand your sarcasm but it never looked like that till 2 months ago(when i fitted the s4 bumper and the roof rails) but i did not get the street cred it deserves ! Funny that a lot of cars move over when they see the front bumper in their rear view mirror (wonder why !) but try to keep-up when they see smoke from the down turned tailpipes !!! Its by no mean an s4 but you'll be surprised of the sudden torque when the turbo spools... On the plus side i have the looks the power and twice the Mpg of an s4 with none of the drawbacks and the engine doesn't sound that bad either !
    #3
  5. Foxmeister
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    Foxmeister Fired Up!

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    [Apr 4, 2010]
    Looks cool mate, good job!:icon_thumright:
    #4
  6. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Apr 4, 2010]
    i saw the title of the thread and thought "this should be funny"

    before the page loaded i thought "imagine if hes done a proper job, those 2.5s could be quite potent"

    really liking that, definately a bit of a sleeper. and it looks like a carbon copy of my s4.

    whats the final output then? i recon youll have 50% more mpg over an s4, but not 100%. theyre not actually tha tbad
    #5
  7. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 4, 2010]
    I bet she has a monster torque plot !
    #6
  8. Paul1982
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    Paul1982 New Member

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    [Apr 4, 2010]
    My guesses would be 230-250bhp and 320-350lb/torque - how close am i?
    #7
  9. phoenixv6quattro
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    phoenixv6quattro staylowmovefast

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    I have seen this car when he came over to do a timing belt service for me. Very nice car! Brakes really are monsters!
    #8
  10. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    impressive :D
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  11. Foxmeister
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    Foxmeister Fired Up!

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    Wot kinda brakes are they up front???
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  12. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    I wasn't being sarcastic,sorry if it seemed that way but if I saw it on the road I would think it was a bog standard derv.
    #11
  13. olds_kool
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    olds_kool Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    awesome!

    any benefit to removing the cat on the v6 tdi and do the rs2 drop links make any difference?
    #12
  14. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    Cat will make the same difference as on a petrol, ie quicker spool and probably more power too, and unlike a petrol, you'll never have any MOT/VOSA issues.

    RS2 droplinks are steel rather than plastic, but they only exist on quattros, FWD's dont have rear antiroll bars.
    #13
  15. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 7, 2010]
    As mentioned, rs2 rear droplinks are metal not plastic and yes, the cats are quite restrictive on the v6 tdi. Mpg wise, i drove Nez's s4 and the average mpg dropped to 9 when i booted-it a bit mine wont go under 27 no matter how hard i try... Front brakes are ATE power kit, 330mm 2 pieces discs and 4 pot calipers, rears stock rs4. The fronts are exact copy of the big Brembos as fitted to the porkers. I had 220 at the wheels with just the breathed on engine, 180bhp turbo and bigger nozzles, not shure about the power now- reckon about 250-270 and 600Nm of torque... easy ! It was topping out at 150 before, waiting for the summer trip to Europe to try it on the autobahn, just need to make shure it will hold in one piece. One thing i am not happy with is the way the b5 chassis behaves at speeds of over 140 Mph, the car seems to lift the front and the steering gets lighter- its quite un-nerving. The last one i had ( that was a saloon) behaved the same but-at the time- i was blaming the Oettinger rear spoiler ?! The saloon was a much better handling car than this avant and it had a rare 3L stroked block and a Turbonetics hybrid + a PSI chip- 250Bhp.
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  16. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [Apr 7, 2010]
    thats a clean A4 thats a big ol spoiler, lol
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  17. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 7, 2010]
    The pics of the silver a4 are a few years old, still miss that car and that engine, the fastest diesel i ever driven, it would have accelerate from 80Mph to 120Mph in no time...sadly the chap that bought it from me crashed-it and its now under a tarpaulin in Eastern Europe.
    #16
  18. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Apr 8, 2010]
    loving the estate. didnt realise it would make that level of power... youd expect theyd be more popular than that.

    the s4 will go well into single figure MPGs, even at motorway speeds in 6th. id be suprised if yours averaged over 35mpg average though
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  19. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 8, 2010]
    Ye 35mpg is the figure i hear over and over when talking to folk about the V6 TDI Q. I guess it depends where you do most of your mileage. If your sat on the motorway all the time it will be better.

    I considered one, but the lack of tuning info, and fragiliy of the injector pump put me off, and the 1.8T does 32mpg average, so it didnt seem THAT much better a proposition.
    #18
  20. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Apr 8, 2010]
    epic car then... i might look into one as a replacement for the S4
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  21. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 9, 2010]
    The power is no problem is the torque you need to worry about ! Stock v6 tdi clutch is the same as the rs4 and will take 500nm all day long, also intercoolers are good for 270 then they need upgrading and the diesel pumps are "only" 600 Inc. VAT from DieselBob in Lancashire. Its getting custom parts that's the problem as there is not much off the shelf and grease monkeys are afraid to touch them. The biggest limiting factor is the tiny valves and restrictive intake/exhaust ports and the alloy intake tract wich cannot be improved much due to the fuel hard lines being ran on top... Yes, i do 550-600 miles on a full tank driving sensibly on autobahn with the ocasional 250Km/h blast every so often. In town, depending on the traffic, i do between 350-400 miles on a tankfull. That's with 18" alloys and hauling the full part of a 1.5 Tonnes- quattro's are not light.
    #20
  22. Geeman
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    Geeman Low Life

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    [Apr 9, 2010]
    It would be interesting to see this go down the strip at Spring Fest on Sunday...!

    Hardly a 'sleeper' with S4 front and rear bumpers and larger rims though... lol
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  23. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 10, 2010]
    As i said, it only started methamorfosing into an s4 a few months ago... still not 100% done !
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  24. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Apr 11, 2010]
    did 500 miles on the motorway lastnight (return jounrey with GF driving and she has a very heavy right foot) and ours got 28.9999999 mpg when we filled up at the end.
    #23
  25. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 12, 2010]
    Thats very good indeed ! A tdi will do the 30mpg average in town though and that with a heavy right foot, motorway at 80-100Mph it will average high 40's... Even so the sheer weight of the quattro drivetrain + a big heavy v6 (either petrol or diesel) wont do any good to the fuel economy but, for the car you're getting i would not trade-it for a petrol lump. The torque is addictive.
    #24
  26. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Apr 12, 2010]
    i darent look at the average mpg around town, it would make me cry compared to what my other cars would acheive. strangley my GF has fallen head over heels with the S4 since saturday. before she was a bit "meh" about the whole thing but now i cant get a look in. she loves how its quiet and comfortable, how its easy to park and how it does a good impression of an estate shaped rocket
    #25
  27. BigJimKnickers
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    BigJimKnickers New Member

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    [May 5, 2010]
    very nice Chris, shame i was at work i would have like to have seen this when you where round earlier!

    Anyway youve seen my A4 2.5 & i wondered if its worth a re map now youve sorted the smoke problem out?
    if so what would you recommend? im not technical enough to do these sort of mods (or well off enough!)but i would like a re map as i had a 150bhp golf that was revo'd to 225 & i loved it!
    #26
  28. joned
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    joned New Member

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    [May 25, 2010]
    Love this thread.
    Just joined, I have recently (2 weeks ago) bought an A4 (B5) 2.5tdi Quattro Avant, 2001, with the AKN engine.

    Love how it drives, but likeing yours even more.

    Is there anywhere that gives the info on the bigger nozzles etc, and turbo options?
    I fancy a play, will have to start saving my pennies for a remap. :)
    #27
  29. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Jim, i would recomend a Steinbauer or PSI Motorsport tuning chip as they will increase torque AND Bhp and not just Bhp as most remaps do ! The Steinbauer P-Box is the best kit outthere and really makes the car fly. I will watch the clutch on yours as the FWD cars will strugle to put the power down cleanly and the ASR will work/flicker overtime. It will make decent progress in gear where it really matters... Your model might need new chips soldering on the ecu in order to be flashable trough the OBD port wich not many tunners will do nowadays !
    #28
  30. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 29, 2010]
    Do a search on here as there are a few posts regarding nozzles upgrades for the v6 tdi. I would say the later AKE engine from 2003 on, will be a bit restrictive with the extra emission malarky. I love the power the v6 dishes but power is addictive. Some say the fuel pump is the limiting factor but i say thats just bullsh*t. I have loads of smoke with slightly bigger nozzles and a much bigger turbo. The AKE quattro pump has 3 plungers so can supply the hungry pistons with loadsa juice. By the way mine is for sale !
    #29
  31. blueavant
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    blueavant New Member

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    [Jul 29, 2010]
    As you have already gone down the route of coverting your V6 Tdi to RS4 suspension I wondered how interchangeable they might be? I also have a B5 2.5 Quattro Avant and was thinking whether it might be possible to fit my existing springs to RS4 dampers.

    I don't want to lower the ride height (as the car is used for towing) - I am aware that RS4's run a lower ride height but wondered whether this was achieved by the spring platform on the damper being fixed at a lower level or simply by using a shorter spring?

    Any ideas gratefully received
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  32. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 29, 2010]
    Shorter spring.

    The dampers will fit your car, and will probably be slightly stiffer than what you have, but i'm not sure i'd prefer them over a set of new bilsteins or konis, unless you can pick up a good low mileage set for much cheapness.
    #31
  33. mixmaster
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    mixmaster Member

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    [Aug 5, 2011]
    adamss24 I have been following your A4 with a lot of interest. Can I ask, you mention the AKN and AKE engines; I have and a '98 Avant Quattro Sport with the AFB engine. Is this suitable for tuning as well?

    Am I right in thinking yours is a mix - AKN bottom and AKE top?

    Thanks
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
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  34. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 17, 2011]
    Sorry for late reply, the engine in mine is a full AKE lump which will shortly be replaced by a 1.9 Tdi lump which has been tweaked to about 200 bhp. I have a very tidy quattro 1.9 tdi saloon at the moment but i dislike the 5 speed gearbox, a 6 speed box will do just fine and a tweaked engine will pull the car along nicely ! I know it might sound as a step back to some folks but i also have a allroad tdi which is only used for long trips and towing so i wont miss the lovely v6 noise... The a4 will only be used for pottering round town and occasional blast on the motorway. I know i should not build a car i can buy but there are no 6 speed 1.9 tdi quattro's that i know and i allready have a fully built engine with a ported head, bv43, Bosio race nozzles and a 11mm pump amongst other tweaks which still returns 50-60 Mpg !!!
    #33
  35. mixmaster
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    mixmaster Member

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    [Aug 17, 2011]
    That's a great idea. I was looking for a 1.9 Quattro but they seem rare in the Avant and only bought the 2.5 initially as it had the 6 speed box and extra torque but was wary of the fuel consumption. However, on the motorway I get high 40's which isn't bad for the price of the car!

    Is the AFB engine as tuneable as the AKE then? Would the same mods apply or is it a completely different engine?
    #34
  36. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2011]
    AKE is just a AFB with stronger rods and lower CR ! Every thing else is the same. The AKE engines have aditional oil cooling for the gearbox and allroads have a fuel cooler but base engine is the same, the difference is in the nozzles and map in the ECU. Also the AKE pump has 2 bigger plungers for lower leaks at high pressure but the AFB quattro has a VP44 pump with smaller 3 plungers (the overall plunger size is larger than the AKE pump so it will push more fuel!). I allways wondered why 180Bhp cars don't feel as fast as early AFB engined ones... Throw a Cummins pump head and nozzles and a big turbo and you will go over 400 Bhp if you find someone who can write a good map ! There's a chap with a hybrid turbo and Bosio race 683 nozzles and remap by Celtic tuning who has 260 Bhp on a AKE engine a6 quattro. I would just throw a bigger standard turbo on (for reliability issues) as i dont really trust hybrids- they are running closer to their max limits and the EGT increase quickly when driven hard. A gt2052 S with a PSI Motorsport tuning box makes for a very interesting drive in a AFB engine... By the way, i have a GT2559V turbo going spare soon, allmost plug and play on v6 tdi and also the AKE engine will be available soon for sale (as soon as i pull my finger out !) for not too much money. The heads have been rebuilt with new lifters/rocker arms and thrust pads + it's been kept on fully sin. oil. Cams are fine with no wear on them whatsoever...Drop me a pm for details...
    #35
  37. mixmaster
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    mixmaster Member

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    [Sep 5, 2011]
    Thanks. Sounds like I need to go away and teach myself about turbo's! I'm struggling to find anyone that retails the PSI boxes? Any idea how much they cost?
    #36
  38. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 5, 2011]
    There is someone selling a PSI tuning box on the forum, see the post about smirnoff skoda...
    #37
  39. mixmaster
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    mixmaster Member

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    [Sep 18, 2011]
    Since asking I managed to get the correct PSI box off eBay.

    I have emailed them for fitting/operating instructions. It looks pretty straightforward but before I attempt it is there anything you would advise.

    The chap selling the box had exactly the same model year car (1998 2.5tdi). However, he advised not to use in the highest settings without a free flow filter and exhaust - I wasn't sure why?

    Although my engine seems tight it has 190k on it and wouldn't want to damage anything. Thanks.
    #38
  40. Mackers
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    Mackers Member

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    [Sep 18, 2011]
    very nice, very nice, i've just bought a Facelift A4 2.5TDI Quattro (150), any easy mods (cheaper the better) i can do, to give it more poke, it's completely STD atm, any links and info appriceated.
    Thanks Wayne.
    #39
  41. mixmaster
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    mixmaster Member

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    [Oct 11, 2011]
    Just wondering if you minded helping with this adamss24 - my PM's don't seem to work to anyone? Thanks.
    #40

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