May 15, 2008
the exchange rate having effect as well i bet
I'm guessing items 1,4,5,6,7,8 and 10 are extras on most A3's.
So what would a similar spec A3 cost?
3 is as well, single only as standard
But it's still a mondeo!
Perhaps all those who think it's such a good deal should form an orderly queue at the nearest Ford dealer. I'm sure Ford have got fields full of them waiting to sell - well perhaps not.
Personally I stick with my Audi for the moment.
Going back to the original thread title ........
I have kept my previous cars for a maximum of a year for the last 8 1/2 years BUT have now owned my A3 for 1 1/2years with no intention of selling it. All my friends comment that it must be a decent car to have lasted so long.
The quality of service from my local Audi garage is superb and in a different league to the other local dealerships I've encountered and the Seat dealers are quite unbelievable.
Odd people have made the age old comment about a Leon/Golf being the same car but cheaper, but having driven both there is a marked difference in them to people who can see and appreciate quality.
An A3 worth the money??? To me definately.
Surely it's not unreasonable to expect at least some of those on a decent spec A3 though, David?
My £24k version had big wheels, but it didn't have any of the others...
I admit I got a bit fed up of people asking if it had stuff, just for me to say no.
Mind you, my A4 before it didn't even have electric windows in the back.
Mine SE has items 4,5,6 and 8 as standard.
As well as 17x7.5J - 16 spoke alloy wheels and 225/45x 17 tyres, electronic climate control, front centre armrest, interior light pack, light and rain sensor pack, storage pack, auto-dimming rear view mirror, front and rear electric windows, electrically heated and adjustable mirrors, ESP, ABS, passenger airbag than can be easily switched off, ISO seat fixings, heated rear screen with time switch and integrated aerial, daytime running lights, heat-insulating tinted glass, windscreen shade band, remote control centrol locking, 3-point seat belts on all seats, sideguard and side head airbag system, split folding rear seat, Thatcham cat 1 alarm and immobliser, rear window wash-wipe, removable luggage cover.
Plus of course the options I choose and paid extra for.
You bought a S-Line! you bought it because you liked the look, you couldn't get a closer looking car to the S3 if you tride!
IMHO you shouldn't be able to spec S-Line as it's not a " S " car the same with M pack's on the BM's.
I don't have a problem with the interior trim being the same , just not the exterior, it makes my car look like a S-Line.
The S3 only gets leathers and 18's Std out of that lot!
Does make you wonder why Ford and the other non premium brands are so generous. I mean if they can throw all those extras in as standard, they can't cost that much can they?
Fair enough, the big three germans brands know that people will pay the cash for those extras, so why not make more money? They are right, they are a business after all and people are prepared to pay. Still, makes you think that they must really be laughing behind our backs!!
Yet, on the S-line, the cruise and rain sensor pack are £240 and £190 extras, respectively.
Why, when the S-line is the supposed to be the better model?
Why delete stuff from the S-line, when it should automatically be as per the SE, but with additional stuff?
The fact it didn't have the likes of cruise control didn't bother me.
However, when you hear of more and more cars having it as standard, you start to feel like you're missing out....
But i'll tell you what, thats only in other peoples eyes, for me it was the best car i'd owned to that date.
People always commented on how nice it was, even strangers!! People how rode in it always said "Wow, its nice for a mondeo" LoL
I think Audi's logic on this was that the S-Line was better version of the Sport, which also doesn't have them as standard.
It was the two stream approach. You either had a luxury and comfort model - the SE or the more sporty Sports model. You could have either for the same price. With the SE you got all the little goodies as standard but standard seats, standard suspension, and no front fog lamps, 3-spoke sports steering wheel or DIS. With the S-line you got 18" wheels, revised sports suspension plus all the same as the Sport.
On my particular SE I added some of the items that were standard on the Sport, like the fog lamps and DIS plus a few others which were options on both models.
Yeah, the mondeo is a great car, the topgear boys gave it joint car of the year with some subaru. It's just not the most desirable car in the world thats all!
Do you honestly believe its good that you get that little lot as standard?
in my view, 90% of that list is equipment I would expect a car to come with these days,
I'm with Bowfer on this one, my S-Line was a more expensive car (in relative terms) but I had to pay extra for an arm rest and interior light package - makes no sense to me
I would be annoyed to spend as much as the A3 costs and not get leather seats. I always thought it was strange that the original S-line only came with half leather as standard.
I've got 2 main gripes about buying an S-line:
1. is that you have to pay extra for cruise control when a lot of cheaper cars come with it as standard.
2. is that with the S-line being the top model (unless you go to an S3) I dont understand why Xenons aren't standard?!
I dont mind options if thats what you want, some are useful additions but cruise and Xenons should be standard fit on a 20k+ 'Premium' hatchback.
Then if you still want to go crazy with options on top of that then thats your choice.
for those who don't want leather, there could be a no cost option offered, like you (in theory) could specify no badges etc
IMO extras should be more restricted between the various A3 models. Just enough choice to tailor to the individuals taste, but not too much to comprimise the respective models identity.
BTW - Good thread!
That's the problem with 'standard' packages. Some guy at Audi UK decides what you want and what you do not, rather than you deciding. That's my whole point. You got bigger wheels, black headlining, brushed aluminium inlays, different front and rear bumpers, roof spoiler etc over and above a normal Sport. It a 'better' car than a Sport rather than being compared to an SE.
The SE is a 'comfort' car. The S-line is a 'sports' car. Marketing decided that a sports car does not need an arm rest or an interior light package but they can still get away with charging more for it because they know full well people will pay more to have the up-market S-Line.
It like most manufacturers, Audi UK will charge what they thing the market will stand. People think the S-Line is more exclusive and therefore they can charge more for it. The more current options that are included as standard the more the 'basic' price is likely to increase.
The A3 may be more expensive that the likes of Ford and Vauxhall but it's still, at the moment, the bottom of the range as far as Audi are concerned.
Note doubt everyone who thinks their should be more separation between the models will be pleased with what Audi are now going to be doing with the New Generation (Facelift) A3. I quote from their product update document:
In order to simplify, strengthen and promote upgrade through the range, a re-structure of the trim levels has been undertaken, effective for the new generation A3 and A3 Sportback models.
The SE trim is completely new and now acts as a smaller price step between Standard and Sport, rather than being priced at the same level.
In order to do this Audi have taken away a lot of the 'standard' items in the current SE and lowered the price so that it is less than the Sport. But if you add back in all of the removed items, this time as options, it comes back to the same price. So for a similar SE to my current one I will pay a lower basic price but more on options but the price will be about the same. The SE and Sport used to both be £2000 higher than the Standard model. Now the SE will be only £650 more and the Sport £1850 more and the S-Line £3400 more.
So I will now have £1350 to spend on options of my choice to get a new SE to a similar price as the basic price my current car.
yeah, that's a very valid point, it is the entry level Audi, rather than the mid tier ford or vauxhall
on the subject of differences though, I can't see any differences between my front or rear bumpers to another sportback parked up at work, and I didn't get a roof spoiler, guess they added these later to try to differentiate them more?
**** it! cant believe Ive been so foolish.
Anyone want to swap a over priced,, shouty blue, premium brand, unreliable, 4wd, 261bhp, hot hatch with leather seats for a Mondeo?
Actually, changed my mind, I will stick with being ripped off with a piece of half ***** german tat (only kiddin).
lol, we know where we are better off. debate it ALL day, we know what we want and any amount of reason, stats and price comparison wont make a blind bit of difference.
enjoy what you got
When was stuff ever deleted from the S-Line?
The trim level were Base A3 -> SE or Base A3 -> Sports -> S-Line
S-Line is a step up from Sports which is a different trim level on par with SE, it was always marketed that way and also shown that way in the brochures. The S-Line trim added stuff to the Sports trim so there was never anything removed.
As for the comment about the £15k Golf with Cruise control as standard, well thats because he opted for the 'comfort' trim level on the same level as SE on A3 which you can fetch for around £16k, not even the £22k+ GTI ED30/Pirelli have cruise control and folding mirrors.
I personally find A3 decent value for money for a 'Prestige' brand especially if you manage to get a decent discount, if I was to spec a Golf GT Sport to the same spec as my A3 on order it will cost £2k more than the A3.
Audi is shifting plenty of A3's so they must be doing something right.
Here`s my recent (last 6 years) car history.
2000, Audi A3 1.8T Sport
2002, Audi S3 (225 bhp)
2004, Merc E-Class 270 CDI
2005, Golf 150 PD TDI
2005, Audi A3 2.0 TDI Sportback
2006, VW Passat 2.0 TDI Sport DSG
2007, Honda Accord 2.4 type S (2003)
Firstly, the S3 was fantastic, I loved it. The Merc was very good. almost too good to be honest, it was just an appliance, devoid of character.
The Sportback was awful. Once, while it was in the dealers getting the steering rack replaced I had a Focus pool car. I couldn`t believe how much better the driving experience was. I`m not so thick that I don`t realise that the Audi was better built, had a better interior etc etc but the Focus made it feel wooden and bloated.
Then there are the dealers, I`ve never met such a shower of utterly pompous berks in my entire life!
The A3 was OK, but it`s overpriced and is supported by a network that would shame the clowns at Terminal 5.
I for one will not be fooled into buying a "premium" product again..........
Fair enough you didnt like your A3 SB but I find it hard to believe that you was 'fooled' into buying the product. Did you not test drive the car along with alternatives beforehand? Surely you would of picked up these flaws you didnt like and in turn giving you doubt whether its the right car for you? If you didnt give it a test drive then surely it was your own fault and not the dealers?
As for the dealers I guess it's down to your luck whether you get a decent one or not, at the end of the day they are all out to make a living some are just more passionate about their jobs than others.
I was fooled
I was led to believe that Audi were a premium brand, with a dealer and support network that were a step up from the others and a build quality to beat all comers
As it turns out, it couldn't have been more different
You don't get to figure out how reliable a car is going to be on a test drive
you don't get to figure out how the dealer will deal with issues on a test drive
you don't get to see how the Head office will deal with issues on a test drive
And as for dealers, 75% of the ones i've tried are appauling, not a good hit rate is it?
But that generalisation pretty much applies too all car manufacturer? Just because you bought a premium brand it doesnt mean it ll be 100% reliable, there will always be the odd ones with issues. I was mainly talking about how the previous poster commented specifically on the steering of his A3 which would be easily picked up on in a test drive.
Like I said the dealers are mainly based on luck, same with CS person you speak with in Head office, it's like this in all manufacturers including BMW and Merc. Some guy on a forum I visit regularly was driven up the wall by the BMW dealer/CS when his new Z4 developed faults.
Remember that people will more likely to talk/comment/discuss about faults with a product than saying how it worked as it's intended. It's like someone saying 'I drove into work today and the car didnt break down, its great' as opposed to 'my car broke down on the way to work, its rubbish', how often do you hear that?
in my experience, I've never ever had such a shoddy experience on genuine safety issues from a dealer, or a head office. Ever
Quite how a car, that requires 3 steering racks and 13 wheel bearings, could be classed as acceptable by a dealer or head office employee is beyond me
And no, it wasn't just a CS monkey either, it was at least 6 different people, all inept
3 different dealers, all inept
obviously bad luck?
55k miles, no trouble at all.
Don't feel the need to shout about that all the time, but just this once
Change the bloody record PLEAAASE
I genuinely understand your frustration. I imagine you simply have had a Friday car. I would say that 95% of us have had no significant problems with our A3's. The fact of the matter is, they are reliable!
You never ever see an Audi anywhere near last place on a reliability survey. The A3 is always in the top 20 for most things.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you (at least in my experience) the dealers have been rubbish and the surveys tend to agree with this too.
I voted no for the poll.
I feel as for the high cost of the A3 that it is quite a let down, yes the build quality is 1st class, all the body work is brilliantly constructed, the cabin components are fused together effortlessly.
But something is missing...
Whether it is driver feel or focus, my car just feels boring to drive.
Maybe it was that i have waited too many years to finally get my sportback ( i joined this forum to find more about it), and maybe i have hyped myself up that this would be such a good car. My previous MKV Golf GT TDI 4-motion was such a better car all-round.
And like a few other members here (Bowfer, MB) i am being drawn to the darkside.. There engines are soo much cleaner and faster, meaning lower tax bands. Even Bowfers D3 has a tax bracket of C for a 200HP 2.0 TDI saloon, and my 140Hp hatchback is D!
Roll on the 335D!
No it's the body styling of the S3 i'm not keen on, don't like the slightly squared off rear bumper, side skirts etc, don't much like chrome mirrors, full chrome grille either. I do like the more aggressive front bumper but thats it. So yes, i just prefer the more simplistic stream-lined look of the s-line.
As for the exhaust, i specifically want a Milltek because it looks 'stock' just with a better note and as for the wheels... I've only looked at MTM and Sportecs as options due to them looking less aftermarket than most. I want wheels to compliment and improve the car, not necessarily modify it. Not to mention being better wheels than the stock RS6's and i just want something different to the masses, wheel-wise.
So no i'm not at odds at all. I have a very clear idea of what i do and don't like. I prefer the S-line but want different wheels. Not rocket science is it.
My point about the mirrors was that i work with 2 guys, one has a Leon FR and the other a Golf GTDI, both supplied as standard with electric folding mirrors. No doubt both those cars use the same motor, wiring and switch gear. Is it really such a cost to Audi? Its just a nice convenient feature which should be standard thats all.
I think we're getting this a bit mixed up here. For me the S-line looks nothing like the S3 unless you don't have a clue what you're looking at.
Correct me if i'm wrong but the S-Line was released years before the S3 so surely it's the S3 which looks like an S-Line, not vica versa. Blame Audi for that.
You must understand that there is a market for people who want a slick looking sporty car without being a full on attention grabbing hot hatch.
So what you're saying is there should only be bog standard, dull as ditch water base models then 'S' and 'RS' cars with nothing inbetween? I think thats the opinion of a dissatisfied S3 owner who feels a bit short changed with the styling of his car more than anything...
According to the VW website you have to pay an extra £110 for folding mirrors on the current Goilf GTI and GTDI. It's part of what VW call the Luxury Pack.
Have to agree with David, it's never been standard on any golf, even on the R32 flagship, still an optional extra.
Ive never read anywhere on this forum an S3 owner complaining they cant run it?
Ive read threads about "what mpg are you getting form your S3" But surely thats someone trying to get a feel for what one should expect eceonomy wise, hardly an admission of breaking the bank.
I've loved the Audi A3 8P shape since i first saw one, I remember I thought "Now theres a beautifully crafted piece of kit. I can usually find a fault with most cars, but i'd struggle with the A3. But to be plainly honest, and this is why I made my choice.. Every model of A3 from stock to s-line look the same to me, theres hundreds of them on the road, nothing sets them apart. If you put them all in a line i'd maybe be able to put them in a rough order, but When one passes on the road, i couldnt tell you whether it was bog standard or the fullest A3 spec! That is apart from the S model, and thats why I made my choice.
Love it or hate it, the 8P S3 is a car that turns heads from 16-60yrs, thats because its a damn fine car, not because its shouting "Look at me"
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