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A3 Quattro vs Saxo VTR?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Alonzo, Aug 9, 2004.

  1. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    A mate of mine got into a heated argument regarding my Remapped A3 TDI Quattro (2002) with this 42Carat plonker down the pub.
    This lad/kid was sat on the next table to my mate and he overheard a conversation about my car.
    He Then went on to say "my Standard Saxo vtr would beat that Shi**y diesel off the mark, in any gear and 1/4 mile"
    After recently having my car power ran at Well Lane turbo in Leeds here are the following car specs:-

    TDI=170+Bhp@4000Rpm....VTR=100Bhp@5700

    TDI=270+Lb/Ft Torque@1800-2500Rpm...VTR=100Lb/Ft @3500Rpm

    He then very foolishly went on to say even the most advanced common rail diesels are slow and that torque is meaningless in a race its just Bhp!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif
    He also said that a remap wouldnt do much to a cars performance and he doubted the 170Bhp.
    Obviously i'm not going to race this kid but i was hoping all readers could add their 2P's worth and i'll print it off and drop it onto his table this wed night on the way to the bar!
    Cheers everyone
    Danny

    #1
  2. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    In this case I'd say it was more to do with power/weight ratio. He'll beat you hands down. VTR's can beat S3's in a straight line, they're French afterall, built out of recycled coke cans, so weigh absolutely nothing.
    #2
  3. mramage
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    mramage Member

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    Ah, little does he know....

    Even in the S3 I am very wary of diesels off the mark. All that low down torque, instant grunt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Having had a Saxo VTR (90bhp one) I am in no doubt you'd leave him and then continue to leave him.

    Around the bends it might be a bit closer and he'll have more fun in the process, but ultimately you should be quicker.

    If he still bats on about BHP, work out the BHP per tonne. I think the VTR is about 110 being generous and you should be at least 120. The torque difference will be even higher /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #3
  4. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:
    In this case I'd say it was more to do with power/weight ratio. He'll beat you hands down. VTR's can beat S3's in a straight line, they're French afterall, built out of recycled coke cans, so weigh absolutely nothing.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Believe it or not the power weight ratio per ton on both cars standard is TDI= 100...VTR= 98.
    But his is standard and mine is from 130Bhp to 170 and torque up from 228 to 270+Lb/Ft...Are you serious? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
    #4
  5. mramage
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    mramage Member

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    Guess Andy and I disagree. Any more folks? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
    #5
  6. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:
    In this case I'd say it was more to do with power/weight ratio. He'll beat you hands down. VTR's can beat S3's in a straight line, they're French afterall, built out of recycled coke cans, so weigh absolutely nothing.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    VTS...maybe.. VTR...definately not. They arent in the least bit fast! 90bhp! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    Rich
    #6
  7. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:
    In this case I'd say it was more to do with power/weight ratio. He'll beat you hands down. VTR's can beat S3's in a straight line, they're French afterall, built out of recycled coke cans, so weigh absolutely nothing.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    VTS...maybe.. VTR...definately not. They arent in the least bit fast! 90bhp! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [censored] this is gonna go down well..
    Yes you will win easy...

    Then..It will eat you alive etc etc
    #7
  8. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    vtr..vtr..VTR GODDAMMIT..And a standard one at that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
    #8
  9. noodle
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    noodle Member

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    AndyMac, Are you sure?

    I can't seem to believe that a Saxo VTR would beat an S3, either off the line or from a rolling start, after all their acclaimed 0-60 time, for the VTR (100bhp), is 9.4 seconds.

    Horrified if this is the case /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif
    #9
  10. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    noodle said:
    AndyMac, Are you sure?

    I can't seem to believe that a Saxo VTR would beat an S3, either off the line or from a rolling start, after all their acclaimed 0-60 time, for the VTR (100bhp), is 9.4 seconds.

    Horrified if this is the case /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    He was referring to the one built by N.A.S.A. Last year /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
    #10
  11. imported_Nigma
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    imported_Nigma Guest

    A3 TDI 0-60: 8.8sec, top speed: 126.
    VRT 0-60: 9.1sec, top speed: 120.

    These figures taken from parkers clearly show that you are quicker.
    #11
  12. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Anand Patel said:
    A3 TDI 0-60: 8.8sec, top speed: 126.
    VRT 0-60: 9.1sec, top speed: 120.

    These figures taken from parkers clearly show that you are quicker.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The 0-60 is much quicker on mine after the remap/tuner mod and the Shitron Paxo VTR top speed is 115Mph....

    I'm gonna have to enialate this fool up to 75Mph from standstill on a start of a Duel carridgeway @ 5am one sunday morning because the feedback i'm getting is just way too close for comfort than it really is...I'd feel a wally slapping this printed page onto the table at the pub..He'd be in stitches /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
    #12
  13. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Sorry I thought the VTR was the fast one.
    What do I know about loosely screwed together French sh*te?
    For once I'll keep my mouth shut.
    Carry on.....
    #13
  14. imported_Pmcgeorge
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    imported_Pmcgeorge Guest


    Derivative CC/Cyl BHP MPH 0-60


    1.6i 16VVTS3d(97) 1587/4 120 127 7.5


    1.6i 16VVTS3d(99) 1587/4 120 127 7.6


    1.6i VTR 3d (97) 1587/4 90 116 9.9


    1.6i VTR 3d (99) 1587/4 100 120 9.1


    VTR=no problem , VTS ....... oops
    #14
  15. stugolf
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    stugolf Member

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    Huh? nor a VTR or a VTS will beat an A3 1.8TQ nevermind an S3 in the real world there's just too much torque in the turbo engines if its driven correctly.
    #15
  16. benk
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    benk Member

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    Doesn't matter about who is quicker off mark, etc. Fact is that if he hits anything more solid than a cardboard box, they'll post him home in installments.
    You have a solid, quality, safe car, and he has a fairly quick eggbox.
    #16
  17. dickys3
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    dickys3 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    stugolf said:
    Huh? nor a VTR or a VTS will beat an A3 1.8TQ nevermind an S3 in the real world there's just too much torque in the turbo engines if its driven correctly.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You'd be suprised what these little shopping trolly's can do! I went up against a Saxo VTS and could not overtake him? We were both side by side and there was nothing I could do to overtake him! Whether or not his car was modified I don't know (It was externaly and I have heard that a popular mod is turbocharging them) but it didn't hang around!

    Don't under estimate power to weight... I have now had my car chipped so hopefully this won't happen again!

    Cheers
    Rich.
    #17
  18. jimboA3
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    jimboA3 Member

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    Saxo vts's are quick cars - i had a 106 gti prior to my a3 quattro which is pretty much tha same car. I doubt very much that they could give an s3 any trouble , maybe keep up , but not overtake. My A3 was quicker on the 1/4 mile than my peugeot was 14.97 vs 15.59.
    #18
  19. leespears1
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    leespears1 Member

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    my opinion - have a bet - both of you go and find a race day where you can race ur own cars. Both of you pay for your own car and put the same amount into a pot. RACE! 1 lap or 3 laps - who ever wins - wins the pot - that means the winner wins back his money and his opponents - meaning he gets to show a shitty french egg box how fast his car really is and also wins the amount he paid 2 compete, back.
    ALSO DAM GUD FUN - 4get takin this post to the pub - take him to a race day, then leave him!!!
    #19
  20. [Dave B]
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    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

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    [ QUOTE ]
    bk1 said:
    Doesn't matter about who is quicker off mark, etc. Fact is that if he hits anything more solid than a cardboard box, they'll post him home in installments.
    You have a solid, quality, safe car, and he has a fairly quick eggbox.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    lol lol /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
    #20
  21. pwnorman
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    pwnorman Member

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    The airpressure from your exshaust will be enough to blow the egg box over so youve got no worrys. VTR's arnt to much of a worry had a few runins with VTS's and 106gti when i had my 306gti close but got the better off them, i'd say that the old 306 couldnt come close to my s3 upto 50mph maybe after that no chance.
    #21
  22. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    leespears1 said:
    my opinion - have a bet - both of you go and find a race day where you can race ur own cars. Both of you pay for your own car and put the same amount into a pot. RACE! 1 lap or 3 laps - who ever wins - wins the pot - that means the winner wins back his money and his opponents - meaning he gets to show a shitty french egg box how fast his car really is and also wins the amount he paid 2 compete, back.
    ALSO DAM GUD FUN - 4get takin this post to the pub - take him to a race day, then leave him!!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    How much would it be to enter my car at a track?

    I'm From middlesbrough (up north) so where's the nearest place i can seperate the men from the boys?

    Cheers dude'z
    #22
  23. pwnorman
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    pwnorman Member

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    I'm From middlesbrough (up north) so where's the nearest place i can seperate the men from the boys?

    Cheers dude'z


    [/ QUOTE ]Well theres the a66,a19,a174 and some very nice stretches of road round here.All though i dont condone road racing but then there would be no contest anyway i'd just let em think what they want because we all know who has the better car at the end of the day.
    #23
  24. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    stugolf said:
    Huh? nor a VTR or a VTS will beat an A3 1.8TQ nevermind an S3 in the real world there's just too much torque in the turbo engines if its driven correctly.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Indeed, Agreed!!

    18Yr old Rodney Trotter in a Shitron Paxo VTR with mega spin on take off...Experienced driver with Heavily modded A3 TDI Quattro with ESP off and no spin on take off (instant surge forward) S*itloads of Torque!!

    I'm gonna love this...Its gonna be priceless watching my car quickly get further and further ahead as the seconds fly by!!

    Spoke to my mate today and he said he's the kind of plonker that after complete humiliation he would say he suffered a fault with his car!!

    Danny
    #24
  25. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    berts S3 said:
    I'm From middlesbrough (up north) so where's the nearest place i can seperate the men from the boys?

    Cheers dude'z


    [/ QUOTE ]Well theres the a66,a19,a174 and some very nice stretches of road round here.All though i dont condone road racing but then there would be no contest anyway i'd just let em think what they want because we all know who has the better car at the end of the day.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    HA HA Mate don,t tempt me...Maybe on a very quiet part of the day!

    So conclusion=A3 winner /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #25
  26. macca666
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    macca666 Member

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    Guys,

    Feel I should join this debate bout both cars. I currently own a Saxo VTR and the A4. As correctly stated earlier the Saxo's really are just a tin can on wheels however do feel quick. I have only been a passenger in the A3 but very much doubt under any circumstances that the Saxo could beat the A3. The VTS is a different matter as it is a fast car and would give the A3 a run for your money.
    I cannot fault the VTR though as it has given me 2 years of cheap, troublefree motoring and would not knock them but would certainly NOT choose it over the AUDI.

    There is only one way to settle the argument once and for all though..........



    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/[censored].gif all over it.

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif
    #26
  27. Woodster
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    Woodster Welcome to my world...

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Alonzo said:

    I'm From middlesbrough (up north) so where's the nearest place i can seperate the men from the boys?



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Does Croft do track days?
    #27
  28. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Woody_S3 said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Alonzo said:

    I'm From middlesbrough (up north) so where's the nearest place i can seperate the men from the boys?



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Does Croft do track days?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think they used to but as far as i know they stopped it as a workmate was gonna host his version of the superbikes but wasn't allowed.
    #28
  29. EvilTad
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    EvilTad Member

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    http://www.uktrackdays.co.uk/ can be a useful site. Can't think of any tracks in the NorthEast tho. Cadwell Park is Yorks/Lincolnshire Way, then there is Donington by Derby, so just a M1 Road trip.
    #29
  30. mramage
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    mramage Member

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    It seems my post might not have been clear. I'm not wary of Saxo VTRs, I'm wary of fast diesels. Just to be clear /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    #30
  31. EvilTad
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    EvilTad Member

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  32. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    EvilTad said:
    And i just found this on Croft http://www.trackdays.co.uk/tracks/croft.htm

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Cheers mate for the links!! I'll use it myself as i think its way too pricey for young buck with the big mouth and Sh*t car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    Cheers mate
    Danny
    #32
  33. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    LATEST News....The lad has just got a sports exhaust and a K&N air filter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
    Oh Sh*t let me load up ma guns /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    He'll now be coming out with sub 6 second 0-62's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    But this kid is spending all his savings on this Car all of a sudden..I reckon he's dreaming of an Audi for his future car and stumbled across this thread and thought OHHHHHHHHHH Shiiiiit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
    #33
  34. leespears1
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    leespears1 Member

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    if ur that confident that ur audi will beat the egg box, u have no worries as if u win, u win money which will cover ur cost and more.
    #34
  35. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    leespears1 said:
    as if u win, u win money which will cover ur cost and more.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yea my costs will be covered, but he'd be losing out on the race money that he of had to shell out to enter..
    I think its way too much of an easy way out for him..I'll ask him wed night.

    #35
  36. imported_AudiAuto
    Online

    imported_AudiAuto Guest

    [ QUOTE ]
    Mark R said:

    It seems my post might not have been clear. I'm not wary of Saxo VTRs, I'm wary of fast diesels. Just to be clear /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why r u wary of diesels? If i'm right in saying, according to Parkers the 0-60 time of an S3 is around 6.5s, and if u have done a few mods to it (chipping, upgraded turbo etc), could well be approaching 6's.

    Now, give me a normal diesel which will beat that? In fact, i'm trying to think if there's ANY diesel, even including a BMW 330d or 530d, that is that fast? No ridiculous suggestions, it has to be a diesel that u r actually likely to see on the road.

    Granted, one of the new diesels like I mentioned above may whoop your ass to 30 or 40 mph becuase of the humungous low end power they have (which i suppose arguably is more important in the real world then 0-60 or 0-100 as acceleration upto 40mph is more useable).

    However, on a REAL run/race/test, one that shows your cars true performace (0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile etc) your S3 would cane most diesels.

    Also, in regards to the Saxo VTR and A3 TDI debate, both cars are very similar 0-60, only a bit in it. So the A3 wouldn't automatically win just cos it's half a second quicker, it would all depend on how well u start off the line. A VTS would definatly beat the TDI i think, however no Saxo in the world (unless it's VERY heavily mod'd) would stand a chance against the S3, even if the S3 started badly off the line.

    P.S, I hate saxo's, and i have a A3 1.6 auto......
    #36
  37. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    pimpmyaudi said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Mark R said:

    It seems my post might not have been clear. I'm not wary of Saxo VTRs, I'm wary of fast diesels. Just to be clear /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



    [/ QUOTE ]


    Now, give me a normal diesel which will beat that?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I dont class a normal diesel a heavily modded A3 turbo Quattro diesel at max boost (keeps going into limp home mode if driven hard for too long).
    For the final time..This is for the record everyone..My tdi Q is not fresh out of the factory as a 130Bhp 220Lb/Ft motor Its 170Bhp and over 270Lb/Ft of torque.
    #37
  38. stugolf
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    stugolf Member

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    My friend had a VTS was a quick car (although beaten many times by a local Lupo Gti /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif) they have no torque agreed they are very light put I used to have a MK2 VR6 with 205bhp it used to destroy it! in any speed, any gear, anytime and this Golf was in no way as quick as the S3 I have now, I don't like French cars especically the Saxo if you want that type of car buy some class either a Skoda Fabia vRS or a Lupo Gti /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    P.S Got over my fear of Astra Turbo's beat a Coupe with a chip (approx 230bhp) on from 30 to 70 easyily in every gear didn't use all the revvs either, spoke to the bloke afterwards nice guy but was gutted!)
    #38
  39. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    pimpmyaudi said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Mark R said:

    It seems my post might not have been clear. I'm not wary of Saxo VTRs, I'm wary of fast diesels. Just to be clear /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why r u wary of diesels? If i'm right in saying, according to Parkers the 0-60 time of an S3 is around 6.5s, and if u have done a few mods to it (chipping, upgraded turbo etc), could well be approaching 6's.

    Now, give me a normal diesel which will beat that? In fact, i'm trying to think if there's ANY diesel, even including a BMW 330d or 530d, that is that fast? No ridiculous suggestions, it has to be a diesel that u r actually likely to see on the road.

    Granted, one of the new diesels like I mentioned above may whoop your ass to 30 or 40 mph becuase of the humungous low end power they have (which i suppose arguably is more important in the real world then 0-60 or 0-100 as acceleration upto 40mph is more useable).

    However, on a REAL run/race/test, one that shows your cars true performace (0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile etc) your S3 would cane most diesels.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    From my 4wd power run the sheet clearly stated its Bhp/Torque figures through gears,
    0-60 of 6.6 sec's
    top end 132Mph
    So yea not an S3 beater but also no saxo VTR either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif
    #39
  40. Alonzo
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    Alonzo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    stugolf said:
    My friend had a VTS was a quick car (although beaten many times by a local Lupo Gti /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif) they have no torque agreed they are very light put I used to have a MK2 VR6 with 205bhp it used to destroy it! in any speed, any gear, anytime and this Golf was in no way as quick as the S3 I have now, I don't like French cars especically the Saxo if you want that type of car buy some class either a Skoda Fabia vRS or a Lupo Gti /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    P.S Got over my fear of Astra Turbo's beat a Coupe with a chip (approx 230bhp) on from 30 to 70 easyily in every gear didn't use all the revvs either, spoke to the bloke afterwards nice guy but was gutted!)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    HA HA...We all love peep's who remain good in defeat!!
    #40

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