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A3 front sub frame

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Grale1, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    Hi, I was wondering how easy it is to change the sub frame, the other weekend I changed the wishbones,track rods,ball joints and drop links. When trying to take the wishbones out once they were undone one side was harder to get out than the other, I noticed that the sub frame had been squashed bit where the front bush from the wishbone would go.

    so today I took the car to get it aligned they used the hunter system, bargin price too, even tho now my steering wheel is in the middle and all feels so much better my car still wants to go left, so I've come to the conclusion that its my sub frame?
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  3. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    Unlikely to be the subframe. If it's tracked up OK and she's still pulling left I would suspect a binding front calliper personally.

    In answer to your question, a subframe is actually very easy to change - even at home on the drive. 2 people needed really, but not too dificult a job.
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  4. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    My front calipers seem ok, the only one I have a issue with is the rear passenger caliper I can't undo the bleed nipple to try and bleed it.
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  5. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    Don't forget if the subframe has never been dropped, all UK cars on the 8L chassis specced with uneven castor from the factory to cause them to pull left in the event of a driver falling asleep or similar!

    Just to do with the subframe alignment on the bolts.
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  6. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    How do you change that then prawn, is this why I'm at stand still then go to pull away the steering wheel spins to the left ( if you have no hands on the wheel )?
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  7. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    Really? Now I did not know that. That's actually very clever.

    Thanks Prawny - useful to know.
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  8. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    I'm reasonably certain it's true, and it'd make sense wouldn't it?

    I've never seen it mentioned on the audi forums before, but it's mentioned loads on the golf forums about the famous mk4 'left hand pull' and apparently the europeans have a 'right hand pull' too.

    I think it's only very slight, like 0.5-1 degree, but enough to ensure that if the car WERE to wonder to one side or another, it'd go left rather than into oncomming.

    happy to be corrected on that one, but I've seen it refered to in several places by several sources, so there could be some merit in it.

    Grale - caster correction is a case of getting the tracking place to slacken off the subframe bolts, and slide the subframe forward/back/left/right until camber and caster is even on both sides.
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  9. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    Cheers prawn I took the print out that I got from the alignment place to an independent vw/audi specialist and he said the castor readings are well out, I'll put the graph up tonight for people to see what they think
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  10. andy 1.8t
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    andy 1.8t Member

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    By how much? Had my alignment done and the castor was the only slight worry, although like prawn said, the left was only .5 from the right. Also I've noticed at least one or two say on here their castor was a bit out and more surprising they showed a very similar reading to mine, S3s included.
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  11. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    The caster reading is this,
    left 6*35 and right Is 5*54 they are highlighted in red
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  12. andy 1.8t
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    andy 1.8t Member

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  13. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    So safe to say I need that adjusting then
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  14. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    Would my castor reading be well out then by yours?
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  15. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    What should be the correct readings for the castor then? Is it worth doing now or when I've put my coilovers on etc?
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  16. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    clearly out Grale yea. get them evened up.

    I forgot how little caster the cars run as standard too, I think I've got about 8.5 degrees on mine currently, and should soon end up at over 10 degrees of caster!

    Get it sorted chap :)
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  17. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 26, 2012]
    Where I took it today, can they do it then, as this pulling left is annoying lol
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  18. andy 1.8t
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    andy 1.8t Member

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    [Sep 27, 2012]
    Apologies it took a while getting back Mate.
    Like Prawn said, just even the castor out and don't worry about the numbers being in the red. 0.5>1.0 should be fine.
    Jiggling the subframe around or back & forth will only get you minimal gain on castor.. apparently.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
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  19. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 27, 2012]
    I'm getting confused now lol, so take it back and get them to adjust the casters so there more or less the same on both sides and then re adjust the alinement
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  20. andy 1.8t
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    andy 1.8t Member

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    [Sep 27, 2012]
    Have you got the printout at hand? Just jot the figures like I did on previous posting several days ago..

    Front toe ended up being a perfect 0.00, steer ahead was almost perfect 0.01 and the left and right side measurements were the same respectively. Camber is slightly odd being set to -0.50 & -0.15, but thinking about it could well be specific for RHD and accounting for wear for more right turns, or is it left? I'm happy to be corrected on this.

    Castor couldn't be adjusted so therefore left at 6.40 & 6.45.
    Overall I'm pretty happy the job done and the car feels it's rolling with little resistance'.
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  21. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 27, 2012]
    I'll post the print out later today once I get a pc or laptop, I use a iPad and I can't seem to post picture up on here, mine sounds way out compared to yours tho
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  22. Tooks
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    Tooks Active Member

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    [Sep 27, 2012]
    This pulling left thing you've been grappling with for a while, is it all based on it pulling left when you accelerate from a standstill 'if you have no hands on the wheel'?

    In a transverse engined car, especially one with a torquey turbo'd motor (isn't yours remapped now too?), you will always get a steer to the left under acceleration. It's called torque steer, and you compensate for it by turning the wheel to the right a tad. I'm not talking about having to steer right massively, just a littel to compensate for the torque steer. What does it do from a standing start when you are holding the wheel?

    if you've now had the alignment done, and having changed all the parts you state, and you're sure it isn't a binding brake or uneven tyre wear caused by running it for so long unaligned, I'm wondering if you're chasing a problem that isn't there? Have you tried any other cars, particularly MkIV platform ones with turbo engines?
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  23. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 27, 2012]
    Hi tooks, when I'm at a stand still, and accelerate the steering wheel want to turn to the left, what ever I try it seems to want to drift to the left, I'm not ruling the calipers out, and I was wanting to go to the 312mm brake upgrade so may be a good time,

    the reading from print out the casters are different by what I feel is a lot, I was also thinking of putting on a poly bush on the steering rack, the arb bushes are they only ones left to change bar the suspension, which I plan to go over to coilovers, and wheel bearings to
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  24. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Sep 27, 2012]
    Dont forget the camber on roads for drainage... all the cars i have ever had will eventually pull to the left as it is obviously trying to find the easiest route...
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  25. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 29, 2012]
    My car does not feel right to me, it feels floaty that's the only way I can describe it, I'm convinced the alignment I had done is not right, don't know weather to take it back or wait until I've changed over to coilovers, and I can hear a bloody annoying noise when I go over bumps sounds like metal washers hitting each other. Time to spend some cash me thinks
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  26. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Sep 30, 2012]
    hi guys, does this print out look right to you??
    [​IMG]
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