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a3 8p screen washers and rear wiper and washer not working relay ?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Geah, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. Geah

    Geah Member

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    hi all

    ive been searching for a problem ive got with my a3 8p basicly the front washers and the rear wiper and washer dont work ive checked every fuse no blown , ive removed the front bumper and put power to the washer motor it works perfectly both ways front and rear ,

    ive scanned the car with a super vag handheld i think my vag com is too old for this car it came up with a 02401 terminal 75x fault code that wont clear at all

    ive read up on the relay kl75 located behind the drivers side dash pannel that cuts so many things off on startup and it sounds like my problem but i couldnt find a diagram of each relay in english for the 8p

    i know mk4s and 8l s3s well ive had a fair few of them now but im new to the 8p

    cheers mark
     
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  3. Geah

    Geah Member

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    anyone got a relay diagram or had this problem before its driving me nuts
     
  4. Geraldy212

    Geraldy212 Sportback owner

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    Geah, I have just looked at the 8P wiring diagram in the Haynes manual. I don't see a relay that would control the rear wiper motor and master washer motor. Instead, they seem to be all controlled electronically. However, there is a fuse F41 in the passenger fuse box which seems to be in series with both the rear wiper motor and the washer motor. The is shown as a 15A fuse. The other side of F41 goes to a 'supply control unit' which I believe is controlled from the CAN bus. Another fuse to check carefully is F42, shown also as 15A.
    Both of these fuses are involved with washers and wipers. Best go and have another look. Another area to look at would be the washer/wiper stalk, and the connector that it uses. This stalk gives signals to the steering column control unit which passes the info to the CAN bus in order to make the motors operate. Hope this helps.
     
    #3 Geraldy212, Apr 1, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2014
  5. Geah

    Geah Member

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    Thanks a lot for that pal the fuses are 100% okay I've checked them with a multi meter as well there seems to be no power at the fuse when I checked it no power at the rear wiper motor either I've ordered a relay 460 from tps today as I've got fault 02401 terminal 75x that won't clear I found a post related to this from 2013 on here and a user had replaced this kl75 relay with no joy but it's not expensive so might be worth a risk these bloody gremlins , my keyfobs very hit and miss also replaced the battery but it only locks / unlocks after about ten presses so I'm putting the key in the door at the moment looks like I've got some things to keep me busy with this one hehe

    cheers mark
     
  6. Geah

    Geah Member

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  7. Geraldy212

    Geraldy212 Sportback owner

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    OK, recommend that you make a full VCDS scan to see what that shows up. There are several members on this forum who will be glad to help you for beer coupons (in some cases whisky would work better). Also, don't forget to look at the wiper stalk, or borrow a known good one to try. Good luck.
     
  8. Geah

    Geah Member

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    Cheers I will look into a vcds scan I think I've got the kl75 relay on order I get a good discount at tps so it was only cheap for what it costs I'm going to replace it anyway there's quite a few people who have solved the problem changeing this and I've got a permanent 02401 terminal 75x fault code that comes back instantly if I clear it I will get my multi meter out soon change the relay and check more things and post up the results thanks for the help cheers mark
     
  9. Geah

    Geah Member

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    I've just replaced relay kl75 and it's made no changes at all there is no power what so ever at fuse 41 or 42 I removed the fuse box and checked from the rear at the wireing side of it I've got a feeling it's the under bonnet fuse box that's got wet or something if that's where the feed comes from cars still in bits will update my results later
     
  10. Geah

    Geah Member

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    Right while it was in bits i ran a wire direct to the rear of fuse 41 and 42 and my rear wiper and front and rear screen washers work again so it's 100% the feed for fuse 41 and 42 that's at fault is there any way I can find out where this gets it's feed from ?
     
  11. Geraldy212

    Geraldy212 Sportback owner

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    Well done on the diagnostics. On my circuit diagram, F41 and F42 both get their feeds from an electronic box (On-Board supply control unit). No idea where this is located. This looks like an electronic logic box, and it would seem to take it's instructions from the Steering column control unit directly. Your wiper stalk is directly connected to the Steering column control unit (SCCU). So my logic says that it is inputs from the stalk which trigger the SCCU to pass its signals to the On-Board supply control, which then switches power onto F41 & F42. Any of these modules could be faulty, or need resetting. This could show up on a VCDS scan, so that is your best option.
     
  12. Geah

    Geah Member

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    thanks geraldy that's much appreciated according to diagrams online its right below the relay box

    [​IMG]

    ive noticed while i had the car in bits today the drivers foot well is damp i wonder if its got a little bit of water damage

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and the pin out

    Connector A (11-pin)
    Pin 1: Terminal 30 right
    Pin 2: Dipped beam right
    Pin 3: Main beam right
    Pin 4: Fog light right
    Pin 5: Vacant
    Pin 6: Flasher front right
    Pin 7: Side light front left
    Pin 8: Flasher side left
    Pin 9: Terminal 31 left
    Pin 10: Electric fuel pump relay
    Pin 11: Terminal 50 relay

    Connector B (12-pin)
    Pin 1: Reversing light right
    Pin 2: Vacant
    Pin 3: Light sensor supply
    Pin 4: Fog tail light, left
    Pin 5: Brake light right
    Pin 6: Vacant
    Pin 7: Footwell light
    Pin 8: Vacant
    Pin 9: Side light rear right
    Pin 10: Rear right turn signal
    Pin 11: Interior lighting
    Pin 12: Terminal 58s

    Connector C (12-pin)
    Pin 1: Seat heating shut-off
    Pin 2: Brake light left
    Pin 3: Vacant
    Pin 4: Coming Home LED
    Pin 5: Vacant
    Pin 6: Vacant
    Pin 7: Vacant
    Pin 8: Number plate light
    Pin 9: Brake light centre
    Pin 10: Side light rear left
    Pin 11: Rear left turn signal
    Pin 12: Vacant

    Connector D (11-pin)
    Pin 1: Terminal 30 left
    Pin 2: Fog light left
    Pin 3: Main beam left
    Pin 4: Dipped beam left
    Pin 5: Terminal 31 right
    Pin 6: Vacant
    Pin 7: Terminal 15 engine relay
    Pin 8: Headlight washer relay
    Pin 9: Flasher side right
    Pin 10: Side light front right
    Pin 11: Flasher front left

    Connector E (16-pin)
    Pin 1: Side lights switch
    Pin 2: Brake light switch
    Pin 3: Vacant
    Pin 4: Vacant
    Pin 5: Garage door opener input
    Pin 6: Fog tail light switch
    Pin 7: P/N without interlock switch
    Pin 8: Dipped beam switch
    Pin 9: Vacant
    Pin 10: Vacant
    Pin 11: Light sensor input
    Pin 12: Coming Home potentiometer tap
    Pin 13: Fog tail light switch
    Pin 14: Assistance driving lights switch
    Pin 15: EC mirror non-dipping
    Pin 16: Light switch 0 setting

    Connector F (8-pin)
    Pin 1: Terminal 50 diagnosis
    Pin 2: Terminal 15 engine diagnosis
    Pin 3: LIN bus
    Pin 4: Terminal L-alternator
    Pin 5: Bonnet contact
    Pin 6: Reversing light switch
    Pin 7: Terminal 30 reference
    Pin 8: Terminal 31 reference

    Connector G (12-pin)
    Pin 1: Terminal 50 switch
    Pin 2: Hazard warning lights LED
    Pin 3: Rear window heater LED
    Pin 4: Terminal 58s potentiometer ground
    Pin 5: Vacant
    Pin 6: Rear window heater button
    Pin 7: Convenience CAN Low
    Pin 8: Convenience CAN High
    Pin 9: Hazard warning lights button
    Pin 10: Terminal 58s potentiometer supply
    Pin 11: Terminal 15 switch
    Pin 12: Terminal 58s potentiometer tap

    Connector H (12-pin)
    Pin 1: Vacant
    Pin 2: Vacant
    Pin 3: Vacant
    Pin 4: Vacant
    Pin 5: Vacant
    Pin 6: Vacant
    Pin 7: Vacant
    Pin 8: Vacant
    Pin 9: Vacant
    Pin 10: Vacant
    Pin 11: Vacant
    Pin 12: Vacant
     
  13. Geah

    Geah Member

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    Connector D (11-pin)

    Pin 8: Headlight washer relay

    im going to go back out in a min and remove the dash pannel again and have a noisy my keyfob isnt working properly ether im wondering if its all related

    i did plug my super vag hand held scanner in today and when i power up the fuse 41 \ 42 the terminal 75x fault does clear and all centrl elec output tests work as they should again rear wiper and screen wash failed output tests before
     
  14. Geah

    Geah Member

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    im off out armed with my multi meter my super vag and a hot cuppa will be back soon :thumbsup:
     
  15. Geah

    Geah Member

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    well i stripped the On-Board supply control unit down to check for water damage it looks perfect though inside as do all the connections

    [​IMG]

    the thicker black \ yellow wire this feeds fuse 41 & 42 it doesnt connect to the obsc unit though the wires too thick any ideas ?


    [​IMG]
     
  16. 20pricey11

    20pricey11 Member

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    Go on mate you will sort it
     
  17. Geraldy212

    Geraldy212 Sportback owner

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    The large black/yellow wire is shown on my diagram as going to the OBSC unit, pin 2 on connector 26. By the way, I just noticed that pin 1 of the OBSC unit goes to the engine fuse box (by a black wire), fuse F30, which is shown as 40Amp. Have you had a chance to check that one?
     
  18. Geah

    Geah Member

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    Hi pal I've got the dash pannel off fuse F30 didn't have a fuse fitted at all but when I tested it there is power there I added a 40 amp that made no difference I'm going to have another look at the yellow and black wire on the obsc I'm just removing it as we speak the wipers not working with the bonnet open had me over today thought I'd broken something else lol

    I removed the under bonnet fuse box completely today there's not a single sign of water damage in there at all so that's good at least
     
  19. Geah

    Geah Member

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    Right your correct I've got the yellow and black wire on the back of relay kl75 witch is the one I replaced yesterday there's a black wire witch I'm thinking goes to the fuse box under the bonnet and the black and yellow wire witch goes to fuse 41 / 42 on the fuse box I've just got to find out why there's no power being supplied
     
  20. Geah

    Geah Member

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    I've sussed it out I removed the lid off the fuse box under the bonnet and traced that black wire from the other side of relay kl75 it goes to a large fuse F52 it was missing replaced that and everything came back to life it seems like someone's been looking for a blown fuse and put it back in the wrong place school boy error caused me a real headake glad it's working properly again now though
     
  21. Geah

    Geah Member

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    thanks for your help anyway im really glad to get too the bottom of this my car might be slightly different to the diagram in my handbook it says

    F30 control unit for aux heater
    F52 Power supply relay terminal 75x 50 amp its a larger fuse

    just had a look in my handbook no wonder i had a permanent terminal 75x fault

    im going to check the fuses acording to the handbook anyway so i know whats in the right place

    such an easy problem was such a nightmare
     
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  23. Geraldy212

    Geraldy212 Sportback owner

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    Well, so glad you have it sorted. Took some time, but your detective work was excellent. Congratulations on that one. Cheers.
     
  24. Geah

    Geah Member

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    cheers :thumbsup::blackrs4:

    i rescanned it after a trip out and all the terminal 75x faults have gone now result :happy:

    on too my temperamental keyfob now :wacko:lol
     
  25. Geraldy212

    Geraldy212 Sportback owner

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    Geah, I would still highly recommend a full VCDS scan, and that may show some clues to the keyfob issues. If you navigate to the VCDS section on this forum, you will find a UK map with many of the members who have VCDS. You are sure to find one in Manchester or nearby who would willingly do a scan for you. Give it a try.
     
  26. Geah

    Geah Member

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    ive already done a scan with the super vag the ctrl electrics have no faults anymore but my drivers door comes up with

    00096 - drivers door central locking (safe) motor (v161)

    although everything seems to be working fine on an output test dis shows door open after repairing the micro switch last week im going to check the door loom i think im not sure if this would cause any remote locking problems but its related to locking

    it locks / unlocks fine with the key in the lock but the fob seems to take around ten presses to lock or unlock the car ,

    so far ive tried

    new good brand battery shows 2.9v on the multi meter

    checked battery contacts

    checked and resolder button contacts on the pcb

    im still 50 / 50 if its a car fault or a keyfob fault ive only got one fob my spare keys a transponder key but non fob type
     
  27. 1inchwarrior

    1inchwarrior Member

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    Where is fuse 52 located? Do you have a pic as I've looked in the drivers fuse compartment and the engine fuse box and I can't identify it.
    I'm having the same problem no washers to back or front and rear wiper has stopped working...it worked fine yesterday!
     
  28. hubbo1

    hubbo1 Member

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    did you get this sorted?
     
  29. ARtechnik

    ARtechnik New Member

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    Fuse 52 is under the bonnet on the passenger side look closely it will say the numbers next to the fuses fuse 52 will be one of the big fuses I believe there is 4 big fuses together
     
  30. Geah

    Geah Member

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    Wow holy thread revival it's about a year and half old this post yeah it turned out somebody had replaced a fuse and put it back in the wrong place in the bonnet fuse box after lots of testing the bonnet catch can stop the wipers working and them silly hid headlights too
     

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