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A3 1.8TS - Should water pump be changed with timing belt?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by SMc, May 10, 2007.

  1. SMc
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    SMc Member

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    Hi...


    My A3 is well overdue a timing belt change. It has done 80k miles and is 7 years old! Audi say 120,000 miles or 5 years for the belt change. I plan to have this done next week.

    I read that the S3 should have the water pump done at the same time although Audi told me it doesn't need to be for the 1.8TS. Is changing the water pump just a sensible precautionary thing to do while the timing belt is being done?


    Cheers
    #1
  2. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Don't listen to Audi, 120k my arse. It's 80k max or 5 years and yes the water pump should definately be done and replaced with a non Audi metal impeller version. Audi really don't know what they're doing on this issue. They inspect the water pump and if it's still in one piece then they leave it, so you'll have to pay them £400+ in about 10k miles time to do the whole process again when it start to leak/seize up, if you still have an engine left.
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  3. Dave_Bayern
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    Dave_Bayern Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    +1 on the above.

    100% correct.
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  4. Spacecowboy
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    Spacecowboy Member

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    Which is more likely - the pump to sieze taking everything else with it, it to leak first or to noticeably overheat first?
    #4
  5. Bash_A3
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    Bash_A3 Member

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    The garage I spoke to said it'll either fall off inside or seize up and knacker the belt.

    Getting mine done with the cambelt next week, part cost £22+vat
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  6. Dave_Bayern
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    Dave_Bayern Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    I bought my car, the cambelt had just been done, managed to get 300 miles before the water pump failed which I noticed due to MASSIVE overheating of the engine, so I had to get the cambelt done again and a proper water pump fitted.

    It tends to have disintergrating impellors and then the water doesnt flow, thus making sure no water gets to the engine to cool it.
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  7. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Does it matter? Basically any of the above, but the amount of labour to change it is the same as the labour involved in changing the cambelt.
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  8. cjhill
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    cjhill hmmmmm interesting.

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    agree with all above.

    Just got my pump and belt replaced at 80K on a 2001 S3. The belt was knackered, and had stretched almost a inch over the new one and some of the plastic blades of the impeller were cracked.

    Well worth doing.

    £360 from an independant.
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  9. Spacecowboy
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    Spacecowboy Member

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    Yes. I bought my S3 from an independant and they had changed the cambelt but not the pump so I want to know what the likelyhood of me catching it before it completely fails as I got them to warranty the pump should it fail. That good enough reason?
    #9
  10. Gti Jazz Blue
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    Gti Jazz Blue Active Member

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    Personally I would also change the idler puley. So my list would be :-

    Water pump (metal aftermarket version) belt, tensioner and idler pulley. Also if it hasn't been replaced I'd also get the aux belt changed as it has to come off to do the cambelt and they may as well put a new one on.

    We found when we did my 99 (AGU) Golf at 82K that the pump had cracked and didn't have much life left and that the idler (or guide) pulley was on the way out too.

    Paul
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  11. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    Ah, gambling man then? I like it :)

    Perhaps we could start a Water-Pump Sweep Stake with variations on when and how it fails? I call dibs on 'Catastrpohic Failure within 6000miles/12 Months' :jester:
    #11
  12. PaulRS3
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    PaulRS3 Well-Known Member

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    get it done. the water pump problems are not exclusive to the S3. Infact it would not suprise me in the slightest if they shared the same part.

    think of an 80K mile old waterpump as an exploded shell.

    You never know when its going to go off.
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  13. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I wouldn't put too much faith in a pump under warranty, they might replace the pump should it fail, but are they gonna rebuild your engine for as well?
    Warranties on cars are just a tax on the stupid.
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  14. j4g3d
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    j4g3d Member

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    i bought my audi from a vicor he had it since new 1.9 tdi and on 140k his local bosch garage only recomended him to change the cambelt 10k miles ago @ 130k and told him water pump dont need doin so he left it???

    why would any garage say dont do it aspecially at 130k? mine could go any time soon then right?
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  15. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    TDi's should have the cambelt done every 60k miles so I'm assuming it had already been done once before.
    As for the water pump, Audi don't replace it either, unless it's obviously falling apart, so the local Bosch garage would be guided by the same recommendation. All VAG specialists I know of replace it as a matter of course as they are experienced in higher mileage cars and are more likely to have seen the results of seized pumps on older cars. Ultimately the design of the VAG OEM pump is flawed, the impellor disintegrates, this is a well known fact, otherwise why would GSF sell one with a metal impellor? It costs £30 to replace it at the same time as the cambelt, but £300+ to replace it on its own. Why would a garage not replace it? Ahhh I think I've answered my own question there.
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  16. Spacecowboy
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    Spacecowboy Member

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    I'm not putting any faith in the pump at all. I was at Audi yesterday and gunna get them to do it. That's a fairly simplistic view on warranties you have there. Both front seat mechanisms in my S3 need replacing as they don't slide forward when tilted. Thats £775 per seat all covered by warranty that cost me £750 for 3 years. That sounds like clever maths to me. As long as you get a decent warranty, its worth its weight.
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  17. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Not simplistic just based on experience.
    Like anyone would have spent £1550 getting that fixed if you didn't have the warranty? Wait until it's something serious, then we'll see if you got your moneys worth. Likewise if nothing else goes wrong then you've essentially paid £750 to get 2 seat runners regreased.
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  18. Spacecowboy
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    Spacecowboy Member

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    You're right, I wouldnt pay out if it wasnt covered. The point I was trying to make was that they are happy to pay for an otherwise inconsequential part. If I didnt take advantage, then it could lose me a sale in the long term when coming to sell the car. This episode gives me confidence that they would pay out if, for example, the haldex played up. I have friends who use the same warranty company and have they have had no problems. Only thing they wont cover is heat damage but i think that is pretty much standard. Your personal experience may not have been good but I find it scare mongering to make an assumption about all warranties out there.
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  19. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    My experience is based on both Audi manufacturers 3 year warranty and also aftermarket warranties. My point is how do you know if it's a good warranty. You don't until it's crunch time and just like all insurance companies they'll try to weasel out of anything they can.
    It's bad enough when something critical goes wrong with the car and it's off the road for a few days, but to have the problem compounded by a warranty company arguing over what's covered and what isn't while you have no transport is just rubbing salt in the wound. I've run 3 Audi's over the last 10 years with 250k miles covered, with no warranty cover. If I'd paid £750 for each of them to be covered I would now be £1,500 out of pocket. I haven't just been lucky either, things have gone wrong with the cars but if you find a good VAG specialist and use recon parts then it's a much better bet IMO.
    How do you think warranty companies make any money? They are relying on refusing probably more than half the claims that are made. £250 a year doesn't get you a lot of work done at a main dealer, and the likelihood of one thing going wrong each year is pretty high. e.g. A4 glovebox hinge breaks are a common issue, DIY fix costs nothing, main dealer fix is a complete new glovebox at £340. Warranty company is immediately losing money. It doesn't add up which is why there are so many horror stories of warranty companies refusing to pay up, court cases, legal fees, cars off the road for 18 months. No thanks.
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  20. Spacecowboy
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    Spacecowboy Member

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    Thats your risk. This thread shows a few warranty happy customers without me even looking hard: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=35060.

    The cost of the warranty was completely offset with the price I negotiated for the car and me selling my old Golf Gti so at £250 a year, makes no difference to me. Thats small money anyhow. Unlike the cost of the seats. If anything serious was to go wrong, that would be the real test but I would rather have the option than diggin deep straight away. I guess I am lucky that I know people who work at Audi - I'm not concerned.
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  21. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    As said the cost of the seats is irrelevant, they could have been repaired for next to nothing. It's not a risk, these are the facts. Guess the people you know at Audi did a good sales job on you.
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  22. Spacecowboy
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    Spacecowboy Member

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    No cos i didnt buy it from Audi. If you read it properly you would see that I agreed the seats were irrelavant and I would not have flagged them up if I didnt have warranty. As it is, I'm not out of pocket, havent got to arse about trying to fix them or pay someone else to and I get brand new seats = a big plus point when coming to sell. But you sound like someone who is fairly bitter about the whole thing and likes to force his opinion onto others so whats the point? Its my opinion on my particular warranty cover and experience - so far no probs. If you didnt get no joy on making your claims maybe you should have tried harder or been more persuasive. Either way, don't try to force opinion and make blanket assumptions.
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  23. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah I'm real bitter about the £1,500 I've saved.
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  24. cjhill
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    cjhill hmmmmm interesting.

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    now, now ladies....

    would you like it to be handbags at dawn?



    P.S. I love this forum!
    #24
  25. Spacecowboy
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    Spacecowboy Member

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    It's great isnt it? Differences of opinion make the world go round (that and beer and women). AndyMac, bored of this now - truce?
    #25
  26. cjhill
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    cjhill hmmmmm interesting.

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    it certainly does keep the world going round - as well as blow up!

    Love it.
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