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A3 1.8 T SPORT STOLEN...

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by fataudifella, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 17, 2004]
    Hi fella's..here's a story for ya...Bought my A3 T on the 2nd March from a reputable car dealer in north Manchester.
    Car was reported STOLEN on the 4th March by somebody in Merseyside?How can this happen ya say?Nobody knows..the car had been checked on the HPI list on 29th of Jan by the garage when they were first approached with the car..all clear..Now although the car was reported on the 4th..it was supposedly stolen around the 16-17th Feb..Why wait 2 weeks? i dont know..but the garage actually bought my car from a private owner around the 20th Feb..
    Ok..so im drivin the car on the M6 on Sunday..3 pursuit vehicles surround me and i stop..the police inform me that the car is stolen and im arrested on suspiscion of theft..i tell them my story..never the less the car is impounded and taken off me..I spend a few hours in the cells and then bailed..
    Now...the person who reported the car is informed of its whereabouts and is ready to pick the car up a 8am at the compound..this fella had no documents or anything relating the car to him...just personal ID..the police tell me that all he needs to release the car is ID of person who reported the car stolen!!1 i cant believe this...it must be some kinda scam????
    I obviously have all the correct documents for the car inc all service history and all MOT's inc current and the cars original PDI form etc etc..
    As we speak i dont have the car and i dont know where i stand legally with garage i bought it from and ownership issues..when i ask the police they say "its complicated and could take months before ya get ya car back,if ya do"..
    Has anyone been in a similar situation or heard of something like?
    When i got in touch with the garage to tell them the situation,they faxed all the required docs to the police to show i had bought it from them,but they have been in touch with there lawyers to see where they stand in regards me and the car etc..no reply as yet..!!
    I have been in touch with 10 solicitors over the last 2 days,but all seem fuzzy on civil law..
    Any help or suggestions needed guys...i will answer any questions if i have left anythin out..
    TIA,
    Gary
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif
    #1
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  3. Mike.M
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    Mike.M Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 17, 2004]
    Sorry to hear that mate........have not known anyone that has been in your position, but it must be frustrating for you!
    #2
  4. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 17, 2004]
    That's got to be some cunning scam.
    Have you tried CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau), they are the experts on consumer/civil law)?
    #3
  5. AlexStanley
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    AlexStanley Member

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    [Mar 17, 2004]
    Sorry to hear of your plight, Gary..

    I'm completely amazed at the ID thing - you'd have thought they'd need more information than that!
    #4
  6. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Cheers fella's..
    Ok i have tried the CAB,yea your right they are experts,but its a matter of having to sit in and wait for turns in the local office,obviosly during the day too...having already lost Monday at work due to being released at 1.30 am 105 miles away from home and being told to make my own way home!!
    British policing!!Pathetic at best i tell ya..
    But have been in touch with trading standards,just really need to see where i lie with the car..
    And yea,the ID thing is correct,and the guy at the recovery company told me that"if i hadnt called[8.25am Monday],the car would have gone within the next 30 mins or so..
    So guys,ya see my plight,no car,no money,police say could take months[joke????]solicitors have no answer and technically im still on bail for stealing my own car..

    British law,best in the world...where have i heard that???
    Cheers
    Gary
    #5
  7. Banwell
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    Banwell previously LeeS3

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    If you have all the relevant documentation, and you don't know where the car is, then why don't you report the car as stolen also???? ie. Prosecute those who are trying to prosecute you..
    #6
  8. Dosenoffner
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    Dosenoffner New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    His ID may match him as the previous owner. The owner could have been away when the car was stolen and not returned to find it gone until the 4th of March.

    You really need to get heavy on the garage for a replacement or money back. It is their problem as much as yours.

    The receipts and service history could have been in the car when nicked or doctored. Mine live in the boot. Maybe not now.

    To report it stolen again may land you in trouble for wasting police time. You need to establish the ownership of the car before moving forward. It's a tough one.

    Problem is eveyday they have the car is another day they can change it's identity.

    It's a bummer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    #7
  9. rjcowan
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    rjcowan New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    I would come down very heavy on the Garage that sold you it. Surely it is there responsibility to ensure the car is not stolen.
    Is the garage not had a visit from the police for selling stolen cars????

    If it was me I would be down at the garage telling anyone who would listen that you were sold a stolen car from them. You will be amazed how accomodating people are when you are telling every customer that comes in that you were sold a stolen car.
    #8
  10. jimboA3
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    jimboA3 Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    If the garage did the appropriate checks before handing the vehicle over than they are in the clear im afraid. They have no responsibility further than that. This has happened a lot recently with Jap imports that have been stolen, shipped over here and in a lot of cases sold on by a dealer who maybe bought them at the port or at an auction etc.
    #9
  11. DJC
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    DJC New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Find out from the dealer if the name of the person who sold the car, was the same name of the person on the log book. ie - did the dealer ask for id to prove he was the registered owner of the vehicle. Not sure whether you have to be the registered owner to sell, but it's worth s try.
    #10
  12. Dosenoffner
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    Dosenoffner New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    You do not have to be the registered owner to sell sadly. You can sell on behalf off. Many traders don't even sign the vehicle over to themselves and sign on behalf of a previous owner.

    The way the law is worked currently it is the buyers responsiblity to check the vehicle is not stolen. I guess buying from a garage you'd have thought you had the extra peace of mind not to check.

    Hope it is all sorted out soon for you.

    Lucky you didn't have your 18's on there yet.
    #11
  13. DJC
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    DJC New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Sounds like if you buy from a garage, you need to go to the previous owners address on the log book and confrim they have sold the vehicle. What a run-around. I'll be buying my A3 1.8TS soon and it's definately made me think about how i'll go about buying one. The only way I can see you getting any money, is if the garage has some insurance against fraud.
    #12
  14. domcj
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    domcj Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    What about the HPi check if all was clear before purchase should they not cover it some how.
    #13
  15. DJC
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    DJC New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    That's not the fault of the HPI people. At the time of the check it wasn't stolen, end of story. HPi just confirms it hasn't been reported stolen, not that it hasn't been stolen.
    #14
  16. PaulBelsham
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    PaulBelsham Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Did you send the log book off to put the car in your name ?

    Once your the registered owner/keeper of the vehicle then surely the previous owner has no claim over the car. Otherwise, whats to stop me selling my S3 then reporting it stolen later on and getting it back?
    #15
  17. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Hi Fella's..some more news as the day goes on!! i,just as a measure,HPI'd the car again today,car is STILL HPI CLEAR..i cannot believe this,apparently it should be updated every 24 hrs..I hope spoken to a brilliant criminal solicitor today who informs me that under law[nemo dat] that i have to claim against the garage because they didnt have full title to the car..EVEN THOUGH they HPI'd the car when bought and the car was HPI'd on my day of purchase..seems a hpi report in some cases aint worth the paper its written on..tried speakin to police about car STILL not bein registered,they said and i quote" we seem to have a breakdown in communication"..seems to me that every officer i speak to is inbred,perhaps i should retract that statement,but no i will let it stand.i have made 14 calls to Merseyside police and not one has been returned as yet..
    Ok..The guy who says he has a claim to the car,is fairly well known to the auto crime unit in Merseyside,they have told me this but no more..he was never registered as a keeper of the vehicle,and as far i im aware has offered nothing as yet to say that he has any ownership of the car..
    I only got one plastic key with car that had the remote locking inbuilt and the key kinda flicked out of the side!!
    Garage SEEM to be working as hard as me to resolve the matter but,NO loan car,NO money and NO replacement as yet,the owner of the showroom is supposed to be calling me out of hours,he is supposed to be in a consultation with his brief at this moment..
    Also having ALL the correct documents to the vehicle is NO guarantee of ownership i learn..its really hard to establish whether you actually own the vehicle or not..
    But on another note the garage do seem fully resposible for selling me the car so there is no problem in me pursuing them for the cash..
    I think i have covered all the questions best i can at moment..let me know if i aint..
    thanks for all the input,
    Gary
    #16
  18. garethj
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    garethj Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Question, where is the car now ?

    #17
  19. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Just as a footnote..I understand the "reporting it stolen again" idea..it has been suggested,think it would reflect bad on me at the end of the day...and as for standing outside the dealers and shouting about it,,well i live in Manchester...or GUNchester as is commonly known..i dont fancy that idea if ya get my drift!!!!!!!
    #18
  20. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Car is in a holding compound in Wallsall...its a police contracted place...
    #19
  21. wezhaz
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    wezhaz Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    I think you should take your story to Watchdog or Top Gear and get them to investigate.A bit of national publicity might get you a quicker positive result.Hope you get it sorted.
    #20
  22. pure
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    pure Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Can the garage not claim back off the HPI comapny?
    #21
  23. garethj
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    garethj Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Make sure the car stays there until this is settled, if you have to report it stolen do so, at least you can prove you paid money for it and are registered as the cars keeper. The tea leaf that is involved in this can't prove anything at the moment so he should not be able to do anything with it.

    Get yourself a decent lawyer, if you have RAC or AA membership use their legal service, if you are not a member then ask them who they would recommend in your area. Make a fuss locally with your MP, mayor, or anyone else who may be able to get the Police to sort this out quickly.

    The garage appear to be at fault if they have bought a car without checking proper title (HPI is no use) so the worst outcome seems to be a legal battle with the garage (who will be insured).
    #22
  24. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 18, 2004]
    Garage are enquiring about refund from HPI,but i was told that wasnt my problem and they should be refunding me asap,AND THEN take it up with HPI..As for watchdog and top gear,i quite agree i may give it a few days and see how it all pans out into next week and contact various people,one of my associates has already given me the number of a journalist in a daily tabloid and there prepared to give it coverage if give them the nod...It was suggested as a banner newsline......CARJACKERS..POLICE TO DO WORK FOR YOU!!

    not my idea you understand!!!
    #23
  25. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 19, 2004]
    Just read through all replies and i think i have covered all questions as best i can..it seems that i can claim against garage..oh just one i missed..As of yet the garage who sold me the car aint had a visit from police..[Thursday 18th 6.30pm]..when i asked police why no visit.reply was,well were all on nights at the moment,6 while 3 so we aint got time in the day!!!
    Just somethin else to shake my head about.If any more posts are entered today i will try and answer before 6.30 tonight..im going away for the weekend to try and de-stress my head!!!Were talking the other halfs BMW,see if we have more luck!!
    Will be talking to the garage only today i suspect,unless the tell me something i dont wanna hear and i will be talking to my solicitor too...As for the police,well they are pretty tired of me calling and ASSURE me that i will be the 1st to hear of any developments..Think they might be even more sick of me by the time this sorts itself out..
    Once again,thanks for the input,
    Gary
    #24
  26. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 19, 2004]
    Aint approached my insurance as yet..But just come back from the garage who sold me the car.They have arranged for me and the owner to see his solicitor on Monday to sort out the problem...We will see how it turns out.....now..HPi have now said[4pm Fri 19th Mar] that a check against the car was registered on Feb 16th...they have no idea how or why its slipped through the net...but it has....sounds like im claiming against the garage and they have a claim against HPi..So the guy in Merseyside MAY have a genuine claim against this car.
    Its a mess...i just want my money back and a resolution to this.The garage did offer me a cheap runaround to use,i aint turned it down as yet..i have stipulated that i want this sorting out for next friday..either cash or car,they seem ok with this.
    Suppose Monday will see another tale emerge..
    Just seems like a poke up the anus for me !!!!!!

    Will keep ya informed
    #25
  27. DJC
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    DJC New Member

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    [Mar 19, 2004]
    If it does turn out to be an error by the HPi people, it has certainly highlighted a loophole which could be easily taken advantage of by crooks.
    #26
  28. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 22, 2004]
    HI fella's..
    Ok,heres an update.Been to see Selling garages solicitors today,after waiting 1/2 hour outside solicitors office while garage owner spoke to his solicitor alone i was just informed that i need to get my solicitor to draught a letter containing all relevant details,to his solicitor and we will go from there...
    Wow.brilliant i cry,absolute waste of another 1/2 day off work,loss of more earnings and my solicitor wants a £300 retainer just to set off...
    I cant believe this situation.Be warned guys,its a very easy situation to fall into.As of today,the police will only talk to our solicitor's..They will not give me or the garage owner any details at all..IE..you gotta employ solicitor to even hear about how your own car..
    Buying this car/insuring etc was a big expense for me..shelling more money out at this time only 2-3 weeks after ownership is gonna financially cripple me,but it seems i have no choice or option.Have also had to buy a cheap runabout to get me too and from work[didnt wanna take up the garage offer off a mazda montrose!!]...
    I will obviosly keep you all in touch with how i go on over the following week or so,but as we speak there dont seem a lot of light at the end of the tunnel!!!
    Cheers all,
    Gary

    Oh...insurance say that,until ownership issue is cleared up they wont entertain a claim.ie i would be tryin to claim for something that aint mine..!!!..and no,they wont give me a hire car...
    #27
  29. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 23, 2004]
    Well guys,
    It looks like im gonna represent myself here.The 2 solicitors i have spoken with have told me a retainer of £500 is needed...yea its gone up since yesterday!!
    I simply cannot afford to get involved with them...so its a county court summons to the garage for sum of car,costs and a few ££ for inconvenience..Looks like that is gonna cost me about £250 but it will get the ball rolling and at least the garage have to respond in 14 days to judgement..At least i will get some kinda answers if put before a judge.Have sent for all the relevant papers needed,gonna inform garage tommorrow of my proposed actions,i cant see an alternative but to do this at the moment.I have tried to book an appointment with the CAB but they cannot do it like that,open surgery between 10 and 3.00 on Wednesdays at my local branch.I can ill afford to lose another days pay to do this at the moment,although i realise it could be a good option,bit of a catch 22 situation unfortunately!
    Called Merseyside police AGAIN today.Wanted to know if i had a chance of getting car back,ie,if i did i might not have to issue the summons etc etc...promised to call me back before 5pm today,as you can probably guess...no call as yet!!
    Cheers All,
    Gary
    #28
  30. TheTonsta
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    TheTonsta Member

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    [Mar 23, 2004]
    Gary

    I hope you're keeping exact records of when you call people, the details of the call, who answered etc etc.. This sort of stuff is vitally important. If you haven't already, note down all past conversations or attempts at conversations.

    If the Judge sees that Merseyside police have systematically ignored your repeated attempts to resolve the situation then they could be seen as acting irresponsibly and not fulfilly their civic duty.

    Good luck!

    Tone
    #29
  31. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 23, 2004]
    Cheers Tony,
    To tell you the truth i havent really been keepin full records of all conversations etc etc,didnt think i would need to in the beginning you see.Thought it was a simple case of,a scally discovered a scam or i will get my cash back from selling dealer,how wrong i was!
    I have certainly learnt a lot over the last week or so,and i would class myself of having plenty of "know how" on most subjects....I cant work out whether i am being treated poorly or is this just the way that things are?
    From my point of view,i think im not being given enough info from any party,the police especially,considering that they had all the info from the selling garage the morning after my arrest to hand that proved,at least,my innocence in the matter.Being treated like an intelligent human being instead of a mushroom i would have thought is a basic right.
    I wonder if things would be the same if the car didnt have a current road fund licsence in the window?i doubt it somehow.
    Seems most police policies seem to hinder rather than help.i realise im being harsh here,but i will speak as i find and i will stand by that.Tommorrow is another day i guess,im sure that i will have some more news to tell ya all..
    Cheers all,
    Gary
    #30
  32. TheTonsta
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    TheTonsta Member

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    [Mar 24, 2004]
    Gary

    Can you PM me the name of the garage? I can dig up their accounting history and see if they've been good or not.. Accounting mispractice normally leads to malpractice in other areas..

    Tony
    #31
  33. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 24, 2004]
    Sent ya a PM fella....
    Cheers....
    #32
  34. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 26, 2004]
    Owner of showroom called me today..Says that if things aint sorted for this time next week,refund or i can have a 99 T plate silver golf turbo as a replacement...we will see eh!!1
    Cheers,

    gary
    #33
  35. recomdos
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    recomdos Member

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    [Mar 26, 2004]
    FANTASTIC! wotcha gonna go 4? if the golf - check the hpi /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Speaking of which - what EXACTLY do they tell u in the hpi report? anyone know who's best to go with? RAC? AA? or HPi? and do you get a report on paper?
    #34
  36. cybrey
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    cybrey Member

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    [Mar 26, 2004]
    RAC and AA both do HPIs..
    #35
  37. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 28, 2004]
    After all my diggin i found out that all the HPI companies use the same main computer,they just pay money to subscribe to it and access it...all much of a muchness if ya ask me!
    We HPI'd my girlfriends BMW over the weekend,we have had it 3 weeks and bought the car from a reputable dealer in Telford..HPI was clear but didnt show her as last owner...sure they dont update every 24 hrs as promised...
    Anyway...Fella who reckons he has a claim to car made a statement to merseyside police on Friday night apperently.the copper who told me this didnt have access or info on what had been said and nobody who was there did either...The copper in charge is gonna call me on Tuesday when he gets back in off his weekend leave...Hopefully with an answer on the car..

    Well thats where im upto..and yea...i will take the golf i guess,was lookin at it the last time i went to garage...seems a nice thing!!!HPI defo first..if it means anythin!!
    Cheers all,
    Gary
    #36
  38. cybrey
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    cybrey Member

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    [Mar 29, 2004]
    For owner changes HPI is updated when the DVLA is .. and this takes longer than 3 weeks.
    #37
  39. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 29, 2004]
    New log book only took 8 days to arrive...HPI'd the car approx 11-12 days after that!!
    #38
  40. fataudifella
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    fataudifella New Member

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    [Mar 30, 2004]
    Well guys..bad news for me!!!suprise suprise eh!!! This other guy seems to have legitimate claim to the car..he bought it in Jan fronm a garage in the Wirral and then put the car in storage,he only realised it was missing when he went to collect it!In the meantime,car was sold to garage i bought it from and i then bought it off them!! Amazing set of circumstances but thats seems to be what has happened...even though he reported it stolen...the police never made it a live claim till 3 weeks after,because he never came in and made a statement right away!! So i have lost the car,have told the garage and they said i can have the Golf GTi turbo,i have to Ring them on Thursday to sort it out...im still sceptical..just sure somethin will go wrong,ya know when ya just have that feelin..well im sure Thursday will bring another story...i can feel it in my water!!

    Cheers all,
    Gary
    #39
  41. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 30, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    fataudifella said:
    Well guys..bad news for me!!!suprise suprise eh!!! This other guy seems to have legitimate claim to the car..he bought it in Jan fronm a garage in the Wirral and then put the car in storage,he only realised it was missing when he went to collect it!In the meantime,car was sold to garage i bought it from and i then bought it off them!! Amazing set of circumstances but thats seems to be what has happened...even though he reported it stolen...the police never made it a live claim till 3 weeks after,because he never came in and made a statement right away!! So i have lost the car,have told the garage and they said i can have the Golf GTi turbo,i have to Ring them on Thursday to sort it out...im still sceptical..just sure somethin will go wrong,ya know when ya just have that feelin..well im sure Thursday will bring another story...i can feel it in my water!!

    Cheers all,
    Gary

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thats just bad luck! Atleast you are getting a car out of it, and hopefully your NCB wont be affected!

    Best of luck!

    Rich
    #40

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