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A Question on Remaps...

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by PNH80, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    Alright fellas...

    I won't pretend to be a fountain of knowledge of remaps....because i'm not. I'm a total novice but i'm interested if there are any subtle remaps which just simply make more of the engine. I'm not looking for big power gains or anything like that but if there was a map which just made the 2.0TFSI a better engine e.g. improved power delivery throughout the revs, a little more urgency etc.

    Like i say, i don't want big power gains which will put extra stress on the car (maybe a little increase would be fine), just a better map than the stock set up. Any thoughts and opinions? Or would it be a total waste of time and money?

    Thanks in advance!

    Paul.
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  3. dsl55
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    dsl55 exploring other avenues

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    Have had a couple of petrol cars mapped in the past and had good & bad experience, my BMW 320 wasn't significantly faster but felt better through the gears, wouldn't probably ever bother getting a petrol car mapped again though tbh. Think turbo cars respond better so would perhaps consider it if i had but mine were NA cars

    Diesels get mega gains from them though, not sure there is a subtle version although they are not savage! The torque difference is amazing, pulls harder and easier from very low revs, my brothers tdi golf is transformed, i will have my a3 tdi140 mapped as soon as audi deliver it! :rock:

    Just my two penneth

    www.motechperformance.co.uk - friend of my bro's, would trust his opinion if you want to get in touch with someone who knows, has worked in the business for ages. He's on here from time to time but can't remember user name, will no doubt be along shortly! :search:

    Just had a squint at their site, showing +20% bhp gain and something like 25% torque for 2.0 TFSI - go for it! :superman:

    p.s. not really used the emoticon things before and may have gone a bit mad on them, apologies if they are out of context!
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  4. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    Cheers for that, appreciated. I know superchips do a map which gives a 40bhp increase which is relatively subtle i suppose, nothing too extreme. But i'm interested which maps actually make the engine better in as close to standard form as possible without just chucking a load of extra power into the mix and totally knackering up the economy etc....Does that make sense to anyone else? lol
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  5. dsl55
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    dsl55 exploring other avenues

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    Most maps actually claim to improve your economy even though it adds extra performance, didn't notice it in my cars but it certainly didn't make the economy worse.

    The real danger is that you get more power and torque and then you become addicted to using big fat bursts of it burying your right foot regularly which does indeed affect economy!

    Not sure how many variations there are on maps or wether they are pretty much generic, reckon if you compared superchips, revo, motech, e-maps etc they will all make pretty much the same claim. What it sounds like you might be after is a 'custom' map - not sure who can do or if they can be done or at what cost!!
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  6. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    most remaps will offer better driveability and economy if you keep the right foot restrained and let the additional torque at lower rpm do the work for you.

    Both GIAC and Bluefin offer similar gains and claim improved driveability which has certainly been my experience of both companies.

    You could give custom code a call at JBS in chesterfield as they offer bespoke maps rather than generic although the generic maps have been thoroughly tested so these would be my personal preference in your position. Just because the car can gain an extra 40 bhp doesn't mean you have to put the car under constant stress and utilise all the power on offer, give the various tuners a call and discuss your requirements..
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  7. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    remapping is more of a commodity now - asking and looking around, there seem to be very few of the generic tuning files are different - lots of tuners have to buy a standard map for their slave flasher - the master flasher units with open files that a tuner can actually modify are extremely expensive, as is the map tuning software.

    lots of the generic map also seem to alter only a handful of the maps within a file, where as the edc16 ecu has some 60-70 potentially adjustable maps. without changing some of the more esoteric maps, there will be very little to choose between any of the generic remaps with most being limited by torque and smoke /soot limiter maps.

    even a custom/bespoke tuner may not actually change much from a generic file - it depends on their experience and how cautious they are - not that thats a bad thing.

    i think the only thing to avoid is some of the very cheap offers from unknown tuners (they may be using a copy of a good generic map but it may be a badly tuned file or a potentially damaging one) otherwise the differences are subtle

    probably more importantly is do you want a bluefin type device to swap maps or are you happy with a permanent-ish remap.

    for road use, a remap isnt going to cause any stress to a car because most of the time you are using less power than the oem code was capable of making - just the nature of the roads/traffic

    all the standard well known remaps do exactly what you want - a relatively subtle improvement but keeping well away from any dangerous increases, that improve driveabiltiy and often return improved economy in day-to-day driving
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  8. AwesomeSarah
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    AwesomeSarah Member

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    The thing is with choosing a remap is to use someone who has a good reputation on remapping
    Someone who is close to you and has a good customer relations
    All maps will give you bhp gains and torque gains , but it just a matter of choosing the right one
    remapping a car can bring out any underlying problems , it will not cause parts to fail on their own , but if you have a small problem , because the remap relies on the engine being at its best , a small underlying fault will be picked up on
    That is why the majority of tuners will do a check before and after remap to make sure that all is well
    You could be driving with the biggest grin on your face and enjoying the car the way that alot of people say the car should be as standard
    Do alot of research and I am sure you will be happy
    Sarah
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  9. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [Apr 16, 2008]
    Im not expert either, Ive had a tuning box on my old oil burner and seriously, it was one hell of a purchase. But i agree, the tendency is to bury your foot at every opportunity to relish the new found gains.

    Back to the matter in hand anyway. You say you want a subtle change, then why not speak with a company that tailors the map to your car. Im guessing you would book in, drive up, they'd get it on the dyno, then you could go through the options, thus tailoring the map to your individual requirements by speaking with them on site so to speak.. :icon_thumright:
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  10. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    Firstly...Muchas gracias for the good advice. Really appreciated. I find it's sometimes better to talk to fellow motorists with first hand experience on a subject than cold call a garage. Having a bit of basic knowledge is always a good tool to have before talking to a professional i find!
    I don't have any reservations about remaping the 2.0TFSI engine up to about 250 bhp. Obviously the S3 is around 260 and even the new Seat Leon Cupra R is 220-230 (?) so the engine is well capable of handling it.

    It's very true what some of you are saying, a map isn't going to totally alter the nature of the car. I've looked at a few power charts for various maps online and for 'pootling' about town and commuting there isn't a VAST change in performance at low revs so i'd imagine not a great change in economy. The difference in the power band (between standard and mapped) seems to rise proportionally to revs (obviously tailing off after the red line) so again it's true what you're all saying.... The power is only there if and when you need it.
    Quite reassuring. One of my concerns was massive additional wear on the clutch etc during normal driving... Not the case apparently.
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  11. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    By the way, this may be a very naive question BUT.... Is it a possibility to install an S3 turbo charger and have the map 'changed' to suit? Or am i talking myself into unnecessary expense?
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  12. dsl55
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    dsl55 exploring other avenues

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    suppose in principal you can do that, sounds like a lot if expense and aggro if you don't really want to change too much, i'm no expert but doubt you can just bolt a different turbo on! you would have to change the map anyway and possibly uprate various other bits & bobs

    you might be better with a performance air filter, more efficient exhaust etc?
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  13. dsl55
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    dsl55 exploring other avenues

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    p.s. if you only want a subtle change, 40bhp and 70nm torque ain't subtle! i drove the seat leon fr diesel in 170bhp form and it was an absolute savage, if i had gone for that i would never have mapped it as the torque would have shredded the tyres on a regular basis
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  14. rabs
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    rabs Revo

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    Obvioulsy i am bias but if you went with Revo they can adjust your boost and timing to exactly how you want the car to drive.

    E.G If you do not want the full Revo specifed power it is possible for a dealer to lower the boost setting to your requirements and then set up the other paramaters to suit. (This only applies to Petrol Turbo cars).

    I am sure other Remap companies can offer slightly less boost as well but it well worth phoning around to make sure you get what you really want and not what someone tells you you want.

    Hope this helps your original question a little
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  15. lil_coz
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    lil_coz Active Member

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    If you want something subtle, then go for a remap. Once you start swapping turbos then your moving yourself into another league. Remap is what you want mate.

    Coss.
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  16. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    Agreed stick with remap only, remember the S3 may put out 265 reliably but it has strengthened internals as well as a different turbo, between 240 and 250 will be more than enough for most tastes.

    Spin
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  17. hatmeow
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    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    Hey man, I have been there but you really have to make up your mind between a "subtle remap" and a Trubo Change (aka K04 turbo). These involve very different set up with the other components. e.g. Suspension, clutch, tires, brakes, etc....

    Looking at the before and after changes give you info but it never can beat a drive in one of the mapped vehicles. I would suspect that once you get into a mapped vehicle you will really get addicted with the speed.

    I was (and still am) super happy with a relatively aggressive MTM remap, but I am beginning to worry about the durability on my DSG and my turbo. Thinking of switching to Revo later...

    The local Revo dealer here does a K04 (the bigger S3 Turbo) remap for cars that have upgraded their turbo. I am not sure if this is available in UK though.
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  18. skodaudi
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    skodaudi Member

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    I went to JBS for a Custom Code map. They had just launched a new map for the latest ECU on the 1.9
    Its a very smooth map and holds power well into the upper rev range.
    I'm very pleased with it and it goes very well for a 1.9tdi and its a touch smoother too. I don't get any noticable smoke.
    I am told it has a nice flatish torque curve and progressive power delivery. It certainly feels like that.

    In my past experience with some other remaps (different VAG tdi cars) is they gave a big boost spike low down low down which gives you the shove in the back which makes the car feel much quicker at first, but the power drops off way too early and they are also quite smokey.
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  19. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    Agree with rabs on this. I had REVO phase1 on my 20T GTi and my REVO agent was really helpful in changing the settings and letting me find what I wanted, we also tried winding the boost/timing/fuel settings down during a fault finding session (which was the DMF incidently).

    The car felt very different depending on how the parameters were set which can altered by you if you have the SPS switch.

    I had mine set: FUEL=9, TIMING=6, BOOST=7 and it was fantastic, real world quick but fairly docile around town if you were gentle with the throttle, which became second nature within a few days.

    It was quite aggressive which suited me, however you can run the boost a little lower if you prefer a more civilised delivery.

    Im thinking about my 3rd REVO remap at the minute, but Bluefin is becoming more attractive due to being such good value.

    Go on, get it done, you wont regret it.:racer:
    Good luck!
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  20. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Apr 16, 2008]
    The price of fitting a new turbo , and internals plus remap will be 3-4k the cost difference would pay for a S3.

    As said just get a remap , if your really thinking bigger power then chop in and get a S3.

    p
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  21. PNH80
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    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

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    [Apr 17, 2008]
    Yeah it's alright, the new turbo idea was just a flippant question really as another option....
    I'm thinking a 20% power increase would be just fine for my needs. A bluefin system which is removable for servicing etc is quite tempting.

    I could have got an S3 before i decided on the 2.0T quattro. I just don't want the general running costs of an S3 at the moment and in a couple of years i'm planning on going up a league to maybe an S5, Cayman etc so i'm more than happy with the A3 2.0T for now. Suits all my needs perfectly. Just a question of a little more performance to keep things interesting!
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  22. dsl55
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    dsl55 exploring other avenues

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    [Apr 17, 2008]
    What's the deal with Bluefin, someone mentioned it was reasonably priced but it's listed at £500 so up there with Revo etc?

    edit: scratch that, i'll do a search before anyone gets upset! :salute:
    #21
  23. S3 Big Andy
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    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    [Apr 17, 2008]
    Find a good re mapper and ask them to "hide" the programme, if you use Blue fin I have heard some bad things about it, mainly if you dont know what your doing dont touch it!
    #22
  24. a3norwich
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    a3norwich Not anymore - Back 2 BMW (shh)

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    [Apr 17, 2008]
    Really? Don't think there's been any bad publicity/feedback/experiences with Bluefin? Why do you say that?
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