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A great debate. Let the nation decide.

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by rich1068, Feb 19, 2008.

?

New tyres? Front or rear?

Poll closed Feb 24, 2008.
  1. Front

    58.5%
  2. Rear

    41.5%
  1. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Forget it....

    At least we provided sound evidence... The other team...lololol... could only give wisdom and experience...

    By the way just to clear your minds... the world is flat!

    Some people have a problem admitting... "OK it might be safer to the unaware driver but I put new ones in the front and it has been OK..."

    It's like some football fans... even with video replay they can't see it was a well validated goal.... maybe someone tampered with the video..lololol

    Pedro
  2. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Personally, I couldn't give a flying fig what evidence anyone produces.
    In fact, they could make it law that new tyres must go on the back, I would go home and swap them over to the front.
    Nice new tyres on the back?
    Where they do feck all? (fwd car, not quattro)
    Aye, right.:tocktock:
  3. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    just make sure you put the new ones in the rear in your Alpina! Never mind the steering being in the front... make yourself a favour mate...

    You can put the tires wherever you want... it is not the point here at all.

    But like others I guess you totally missed it... never mind.
    :hi:
  4. bacardi
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    bacardi Active Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]

    yawn
  5. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Worn tyres on the front of a BMW make for a terrible drive, it tramlines all over the place, much more noticable that worn rears.
  6. sleep envy
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    sleep envy Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    I think you'll find it's the camber settings which have more effect on that

    the 'front' brigade are clutching at straws
  7. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Aaaw, not fit in with your opinion?
    Shaaaame.
  8. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    you can keep saying yawn but if the problem is as great as you all seem to think it is surely we would have experienced it?

    Over 50% of the people reading this thread put new tyres on the front of thier cars.

    The thing is, if driving at 30mph in the wet round a bend in a normal car causes you to spin do you not think that everyone on here would be saying "oh yes that happened to me"
  9. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    believe me... that red car is actually blue!

    I have a solution to please all, including tire manufacturers...lolol

    4 new tires everytime!!!!

    Pedro
  10. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    I'm talking about a car with factory settings. You obviously get a lot more feel through the front of a BM than an audi for example. But when the fronts are worn it moves around all over the place a hell of a lot more.
  11. sleep envy
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    sleep envy Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    edited for accuracy

    HTH
  12. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Well it has actually happened to me when I had a Clio. True. Slippery road... it felt like all of a sudden I had no rear grip and just lost... and going slow I stopped almost facing the other way around... luckly it was at very slow speed and no incoming traffic so everything was fine.

    The car had worn tires everywhere but I assume being ligher in the rear axle made a difference..

    Believe or not if you want... I really don't "give a fig"....

    Pedro
  13. sleep envy
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    sleep envy Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    eh?

    if you look after your tyres and make sure that the pressures are correct during the life of the tyre (and not use it on a track day) the wear should be even

    how is that going to affect the geometry settings which are pretty much fixed (excluding hitting kerbs and going over pot holes)?
  14. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    So your example of having new tyres on the front, worn on the rear causing a car to spin is actually with a clio with worn tyres everywhere?

    Hmmm not the best example me thinks.

    I have spun my wifes Mx5 on a roundabout, new tyres all round, in the dry, basically being a nob. Does that mean new, new tyres on the rear would have saved me from doing that?
  15. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Front tyres do not wear as quickly as the rears on a rear wheel drive car.

    You get more feel from a BM than you do an audi. When the front tyres start to get low on the front of a BM it move around a lot more, tramlining if you like. This is not just my current car but a 330 coupe, a 330D touring, a 328i coupe
  16. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Where's the evidence that was down to worn tyres?
    Could have been some contaminate on the road which caused your slide.
    New tyres aren't immune to diesel spillages.
  17. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    But thats not what the video clips are actually showing are they. If it only increased the chances of a sping the test would have involved numberous runs, 10's if not 100's to show the increase.

    But they didn;t. Vicki drove round once with new tyres rear/worn front. Didn't spin. Then swapped it round (new on the front, old on rear) and drove round again and it spun.

    Conclusion: At 30 mph in the wet, according to her test, you will spin if you put new tyres on the front with wrn on the rear.
  18. sleep envy
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    sleep envy Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    can't say I've noticed it in either of my M3s or my 325i

    can't see how a tyre's wear can alter the camber settings
  19. sleep envy
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    sleep envy Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    a yes or no answer to this question will surfice;

    so you are saying that every tyre manufacturer, tyre development technician and the tyre industry as a whole is fundamentally wrong in this instance?
  20. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    No, he's quite rightly saying it's a **** test.
  21. sleep envy
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    sleep envy Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    that wasn't the question
  22. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Not the best but the one I had myself... It wasn't a roundabout and I only lost the rear, all of a sudden... The car is a comercial version where does not have back seats. If it was due to worn tires I do not know... what I know is that I lost rear grip. I think if I had better tires in the rear I might have not lost it like that... It wasn't dry, the road was damp.

    But other factors like weight distribution come into account off course.

    Pedro
  23. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    I am not saying it was only due to worn tires but I did not lost the front did I?

    So obviosly in that car front frip was greater than rear grip that is why I lost it... the rear did not had enough grip.

    Pedro
  24. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 21, 2008]

    Lololol..... can't help it!

    Do you still have doubts on this one? For sure the are not right... maybe, just maybe they are wrong!!

    Pedro
  25. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    I didn't say it altered the camber settings did I? Nope I think I said it made the front end move around a lot more, I assume it tramlines more. I would guess this is because the tread blocks have more give when new.

    And again notice how I haven't mentioned it altered the camber in this post?
  26. sleep envy
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    sleep envy Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    there we go, supposition and speculation

    thank you
  27. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Nope I am saying that the videos you have used as evidence are ****. Using the test as a guide it would mean that over 50% of us who have said we put new tyres on the front would have had a spin when it rained, which lets face it is most of the time in this country is it not?
  28. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Pedro, if it were case of 'right or wrong', then why isn't it law?
    Really, if it's as black and white as you suggest, then surely every tyre fitter in the land would agree?
    As it is, they don't.
    Even the Costco fitters, who are forced by company policy to fit new tyres on the back, don't agree.
  29. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    So your now saying that with worn fronts my car doesn't tramline? I am just imagining it?
  30. sleep envy
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    sleep envy Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    NOTE TO MODS: can we get a new horse for this thread please, we've still got loads more flogging to do.
  31. bacardi
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    bacardi Active Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]

    on the account that it doesn't fit with your opinion?

    Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame
  32. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]

    So your now saying that worn tyres all round will make your car spin? Or are you still using your example for the new tyres on the front will cause your car to spin?

    Your example isn't relevant to the discussion of where to put new tyres, front or back.
  33. bacardi
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    bacardi Active Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]

    Superb!!!

    Costo don't agree? Sheeesh, I trust them as much as an audi master technician!
  34. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    On account it doesn't fit with your argument. Like I Said in the video there are 2 runs yes?

    One in which the car spins and the other it doesn't? Agree so far?

    So therefore we can conclude in the wet at 30mph driving round a bend in a family car with worn rear tyres and new front tyres you will spin?

    Is that not what the test showed?
  35. bacardi
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    bacardi Active Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]

    Naah, just tired, been a long day

    It has happened to me, fact, also I've had new tyres fitted to the front and NOT lost the car, I've never said that it will happen, I've said for those with little skill it is safer to fit them to the rear.
  36. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    No, I think most right minded people would see it's a **** test.
    Complete lack of proper control conditions.

    No guarantee her speed was the same for both tests.
    No guarantee her throttle position was the same.
    No guarantee the grip co-efficient of the tarmac was the same for both tests
    No guarantee her sterring wheel forces were the same for both tests.
    No guarantee the tarmac temperature was the same for both tests.
    No guarantee the tyre pressures were the same for both tests.
    Etc.etc.etc.
  37. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    Well bowfer I never said it was law... and if you read all my post what I mean is that having the new tires fitted in the rear (in a FWD) it reduces the chance of being caught in an unexpected oversteer, thus being safer in the sense that oversteer is more difficult to control for most drivers. Again I say... reduces the chance of!!!!

    Like smoking it is proven that increases the risk of developinf lung cancer and it is not against the law the act of smoking outside public places is it?

    So what it being difficult to admit is that the chances of oversteer happening are greater if new tires are in front with worn rear ones... How much it changes the probability towards oversteer I don't know but for certain it is not the same...

    Maybe, in normal conditions there is a 10% probability of oversteer happening if you have new front and worn rears the probability rises to 11%... who knows? I don't but I do know it changes the probability of that happening... that all. My point is all that simple...
  38. klauster
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    klauster Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    as alot of people are posting in here who seem to know what they are talking about, let me add another question which Id like to know other peoples opinions on....

    Tyres, do you wait until they are nearly illegal before changing? Mine are on half tread and I have already noticed a change in the handling... thinking about new rubber all round, if you like driving fast do you change your tyres before they get to minimum tread/illegal?
  39. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    I know you would say this....lololol!

    It is not the perbeft example at all but just helps to illustrate what happens when there is a difference in grip front/rear!

    Or are you saying that a worn tire grips the same as a new tire (after running in)?????????
  40. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Feb 21, 2008]
    LOL...Thats exactly the same as the worn tire debate!

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