A great debate. Let the nation decide.

[rich1068]

It's new tyre time again and obviously there are two schools of thought regarding where to put the new ones.

1) 'On the front you dummy!'

Better straight line traction, braking and all that. The manual says put them on the front so who am I to argue?

2) 'On the back you fool!'

Back end is much lighter and chances are if you lose the back end you lose the car. You should make sure you've got grip at the rear.

So which is it to be? Keep in mind it's Haldex quattro if that makes a difference and the tyres I'm keeping are half way through their life.

 

[sleep envy]

rear every time to reduce the risk of lift-off overteer

 

[Amchlolor]

Costco do my head in.
They flat (sic) refuse to put new tyres on the front of a car.
Which means I always have the hassle of swapping them over at home.
On a FWD car, I'd go front every time.
The rears don't have to be so grippy, they're under less pressure, so to speak.
Quattro, no idea.

 

[newbiecrg]

rear everytime for safety reasons... unless you are a professional racing driver then you can mount them wherever you want...

Pedro

 

[Twizzler]

rear

 

[marriedblonde]

If the fronts need replacing the fronts get replaced!

The rear tyres do so little of the work any way why would you want maximum grip on the end that's being dragged around?

Steering, front, majority of the braking, front, most of the weight, front, so where shall I put those worn tyres...

On my fwd cars I get through 2 sets of fronts to one set of rears, so I'd replace the fronts, and then next time round it would be all four.

On my R32 all 4 needed doing at once so it wasn't an issue.

On my current car it looks like I am going 2 sets of rears to one set of fronts.

J.

 

[marriedblonde]

rear everytime for safety reasons... unless you are a professional racing driver then you can mount them wherever you want...

Pedro

Why? And what safety reasons?

 

[sleep envy]

Why? And what safety reasons?

reduces the risk of lift off oversteer especially in a FWD car where there'slittle weight on the rear

ever driven a 205 with worn rear tyres?

 

[Randomjim]

Lift off oversteer is great fun though.

 

[Twizzler]

The reason is that new tyres are far less prone to skidding in adverse conditions than partially-worn tyres.

Generally, it is far easier to regain control of a car when the front end slips. Most drivers instinctively slow down/brake, which shifts weight on to the front tyres, helping them regain traction.

In contrast, if the rear tyres slip first the car tends to swing sideways and most people have trouble regaining control. The car is also far more likely to flip if this happens.

 

[rich1068]

Good response so far guys. Thanks for that

A couple of things to throw into the equation. The tyres I'm keeping are on the front at the moment but that's because I had to change them after a puncture. The rears are the originals and down to the wire (ish). Oh, and I drive like someone's granny most of the time. Just the occasional 'early power out of a roundabout because I can' type behaviour. It's a quattro thing...

 

[JamS3]

Here we go......

New tyres fitted in front :
- The behavior of the car will change, because the front / rear balance will be reversed.
The driver, used to a car with less grip at the front, will therefore be taken unawares.
- On a slippery road, the rear will lose traction before the front of the vehicle.
The driver will have no chance of controlling the rear, and will be tempted to accelerate further, which will amplify the spin effect. Only an experienced driver will be able to recover from this dangerous situation...


New tyres fitted at the back :
- The handling of the vehicle will be similar to that known by the driver before the tyre change, because the traction balance will be the same.
- Rear traction will be better, and the driver will be able to control and steer their vehicle without a problem by decelerating and turning the steering wheel in the direction of the bend.

That's why Michelin advises you to reduce the risks you take by fitting new or less worn tyres at the rear of the vehicle for:
- better grip on bends
- extra safety.

 

[sleep envy]

That's why Michelin advises you to reduce the risks you take by fitting new or less worn tyres at the rear of the vehicle for:
- better grip on bends
- extra safety.

that's all well and good but this is the internet where manufacturers engineer's opinion doesn't count but the bloke down the pub said so carries far more weight

 

[JamS3]

Well I'll continue the conversation with them in the nearest hedge.....

 

[sleep envy]

 

[CJP80]

New fronts and worn rears make for some fun driving in an S3!

 

[newbiecrg]

loosing rear grip is a bit more difficult to control. Oversteer whilst fun is more difficult to control than understeer where the basic instinct of braking helps...

A friend of mine did not care about this and had the best tires fitted on his year old TT (new shape) lost the end of it due to aquaplanning and could not get it back... expensive repair as it is all aluminium... Front gripped fine, just lost the back end...

I am a good driver but driving on the roads (a lot more hazardous than a rece track) I do not take chances.

Pedro

That is why I said unless you are a very good driver make sure your rear tires are always the ones in best condition...

 

[treblesykes]

just buy a new car when tyres are bald or ashtray is full

 

[Ant&Vic]

front everytime for me, grip brill after cpl hundred miles, leathal until then tho

 

[mitch78]

:thumbsup:

 

[bacardi]

didn't 5th gear do a program showing wha happened to a corsa a while ago? New on the front and on a wet corner it spun out like bambi on ice, new on the rear it was safe

 

[markwiggy]

Costco do my head in.
They flat (sic) refuse to put new tyres on the front of a car.

Costco told me they would only change 4 tyres with the car being Quattro ???
I will renew the fronts first though, the fact they have worn out first tells me they do most of the work.

Mark

 

[ADEY]

I was told on a fwd car the new tyres are always fitted to the rear until 'scrubbed' (run-in) then you can transfer them to the front (as the dealer did to my gti when i needed two new fronts) mind you......can you trust the dealers?

 

[marriedblonde]

Nah not convinced on the safety reasons mentioned above.

 

[newbiecrg]

Married and blonde you don't need to be convinced it is a fact. It is called centrifugal force. In a bend if the difference in grip is a lot and most of your grip is on the front you will loose the rear end... depending on the situation you might not be able to recover it. The car will oversteer... then what? You might know what to do but 80% of drivers don't... If the grip is better in the rear (better tires in the rear) you will loose the front, understeer ... what most people do in a panic situation? brake!! correcting the understeer...

Very simple, I am surprised an inteligent guy like you can't see this simple thing.

I am not saying that people that actually know and feel the car to do that... if you read my 1st post you will see that I make a remark for "racing drivers". I am not a racing driver but I can mount new tires in the front of the car because I know what to do both in understeer and oversteer situations but for most drivers it is best to leave the best tires in the rear... like it is best to leave ESP always on...

But please, enlighten me with your opinion why either it makes no difference or why it is better in the front...

Pedro

 

[bacardi]

Nah not convinced on the safety reasons mentioned above.

I wouldnt be either

apart from an incident in a Mk1 Astra GTE

Wet corner, brand new tyres (well less than 1k miles) on front, old on rear, biggest tank slapper I've had

having said that though, I can see why most people prefer them on the front, better braking etc

 

[sleep envy]

But please, enlighten me with your opinion why either it makes no difference or why it is better in the front...

this will be entertaining - disproving proven theory

popcorn anyone??

 

[marriedblonde]

an inteligent guy like you

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Ok so answer me this:

If you have a porsche or BMW that uses staggered tyres fonrt/rear are you saying that you can't replace the front tyres without replacing the rears?

Obviously you can't rotate tyres if the fonrt and backs are different sizes?

Or are you saying that I need to drive at 15mph until the tyres are worn approximately the same?

All modern cars, bar a very few, are set up to understeer as this is safer. True or not?

 

[marriedblonde]

I wouldnt be either

apart from an incident in a Mk1 Astra GTE

Wet corner, brand new tyres (well less than 1k miles) on front, old on rear, biggest tank slapper I've had

having said that though, I can see why most people prefer them on the front, better braking etc

Ah but we are not talking about a car that was designed and built in the 80's...

They also dont make 205 Gti's any more that fly off the road backwards through a hedge at the merest hint of lifting off the go pedal. True there are still some cars that waggle their bums but not to the extent of the old pug!

J.

 

[sleep envy]

Ok so answer me this:

If you have a porsche or BMW that uses staggered tyres fonrt/rear are you saying that you can't replace the front tyres without replacing the rears?

Obviously you can't rotate tyres if the fonrt and backs are different sizes?

Or are you saying that I need to drive at 15mph until the tyres are worn approximately the same?

by the nature of 911's design the rears wear 2 to 3 times quicker than the fronts

on my 911 my fronts last twice as long as the rears mainly due to my driving style - therefore I replace all four, then just the rears and then all four and so on and so forth

at no time will the front have a greater tread depth than the rear

hope that explains your question

now back to the FWD issue...

 

[bacardi]

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Ok so answer me this:

If you have a porsche or BMW that uses staggered tyres fonrt/rear are you saying that you can't replace the front tyres without replacing the rears?

Obviously you can't rotate tyres if the fonrt and backs are different sizes?

Or are you saying that I need to drive at 15mph until the tyres are worn approximately the same?

All modern cars, bar a very few, are set up to understeer as this is safer. True or not?

ahhh

being rear wheel drive would make a difference, we're talking of FWD here

 

[bacardi]

Ah but we are not talking about a car that was designed and built in the 80's...

They also dont make 205 Gti's any more that fly off the road backwards through a hedge at the merest hint of lifting off the go pedal. True there are still some cars that waggle their bums but not to the extent of the old pug!

J.

Agreed, the 5th gear episode I remember used a Corsa, with the stability control in cars these days the effect would be much less

think of this way though, FWD car with bald rear tyres and brand new fronts, which end is going to go walkies?

 

[rodenal]

On a FWD car they really should go on the rear for reasons as above.

However, as i use far more tyres on the front than on the rear, i'll put a new set on the front, wait till they're done then swap the rears to front and put my new, new ones on the back.

At the end of the day if you manage to drive a FWD car so that it loses traction at the rear in the wet/cold so badly that you spin out, even on half worn tyres then you're a numpty and should learn from your mistakes.

FWD Oversteering = throttle, and if you need it, tiny bit of opposite lock. It's really not hard

Infact why arent you taught things like this when learning to drive, perhaps given a lesson on a skidpan or something rather than ******* about doing 3 point turns and reversing round corners. Who the hell has ever had to reverse round a corner, and if you have, did you care how close to the kerb u were? etc etc

Perhaps if i'd been taught some car control i wouldnt have wrapped my first car(MGzs) around 2 trees on a greasy road.

No, i definately would have as i was a numpty then too. At least i have learnt( a bit) form my mistakes tho.

 

[mitch78]

:thumbsup:

 

[sleep envy]

As the car has understeer engineered into it's design, this will mean you still have it, just less than before. So I can't see the fuss about safety concerns unless you're driving like an absolute nutter.

what do you think happens when you have less understeer?

it turns into oversteer as the front end grips

then you have the part worns on the rear, the **** of the car goes loose and you go straight to the scene of the accident

seeesh!

do you really know what you're talking about?

 

[mitch78]

:thumbsup:

 

[sleep envy]

No you still have understeer just not as severe, hence the use of the phrase "LESS UNDERSTEER". It doesn't turn into oversteer just because the front is sliding a bit less.

Try thinking about what you're saying before you post derogatory comments.

I've read your post, thought about it and have come to the same conclusion - you still don't know what you are talking about

if you read JamS3's post he nails it 100%, you might also want to refer to my comment on his post...

I don't know why it still surprises me that internet bods think they know better than specialists in their field

 

[mitch78]

:thumbsup:

 

[mitch78]

:thumbsup:

 

[sleep envy]

fair do's - everyone's entitled to their opinion but trying to pass it off as a statement of fact can end up missinforming people, that happens far too often on fora

besides which, what's more worrying is the results of the poll...

each to their own (ditch)